The Migration of the World’s Millionaires in 2023

[Markola]

I learned some things and saw some surprises in the attached Visual Capitalist article. I was surprised that India is losing wealthy people so dramatically, given their economic development. Their government has a lot of issues though. And I didn’t know Australia had become a magnet for the wealthy as it clearly has.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/map...aires-in-2023/

[MichaelB]

A couple of highlights or short summary would be nice

[marko]

Interesting, but I'd like to see the movement of those around $5MM or so. One million isn't that big a deal nowadays. Housing values contribute a big chunk of people's NW in the $1MM range and hitting that "millionaire" status isn't what it used to mean.

The $5-10MM+ crew live in an entirely different world than those in the $1MM range. Their movements should be a lot more interesting than "the millionaire next door ". Lumping them all together must skew the charts as there are likely a lot more millionaires than multi, multi millionaires.

[Fielding]

I too would like to see larger wealth cohorts, but $1 million USD globally represents a high standard of living for much of the world. So it's not a bad place to draw the line for a global map.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko Interesting, but I'd like to see the movement of those around $5MM or so.

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko Interesting, but I'd like to see the movement of those around $5MM or so. One million isn't that big a deal nowadays. Housing values contribute a big chunk of people's NWin the $1MM range and hitting that "millionaire" status isn't what it used to mean.

That's for sure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko Interesting, but I'd like to see the movement of those around $5MM or so. One million isn't that big a deal nowadays. Housing values contribute a big chunk of people's NWin the $1MM range and hitting that "millionaire" status isn't what it used to mean.

I hope we don't try to define what is included in NW again.

[Markola]

One reason the US doesn’t lose millionaires is probably because, unlike many expats, no American can escape US taxes, no matter where they run to!

[oiseux]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markola One reason the US doesn’t lose millionaires is probably because, unlike many expats, no American can escape US taxes, no matter where they run to!

They can renounce, but that would be primarily those between $1 and $2M in this chart, I would think, due to the Exit Tax. But these are net numbers, I believe. And they are way down from pre-pandemic levels.

I am speculating (with the help of Bing GPT) that the primary driver for Australia is the points-based system of immigration and many other immigration program (and a lot of the net losers are in Asia). Immigration plays a role in UAE, but I am guessing taxes are a bigger factor. The UK has seen quite an outmigration -- I'm guessing UAE (based on anecdotal evidence) and Switzerland but maybe even the US. I am not surprised to see Spain NOT on the list of incoming migration after the latest wealth tax changes. I would not be surprised to see American retirees on the list of French and Portugal incoming (those that do not renounce). Crypto may be influencing some of these locations.

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markola One reason the US doesn’t lose millionaires is probably because, unlike many expats, no American can escape US taxes, no matter where they run to!

+1. That's an excellent observation. And we also have the most talented accountants on the face of the earth!

[Letj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fielding I too would like to see larger wealth cohorts, but $1 million USD globally represents a high standard of living for much of the world. So it's not a bad place to draw the line for a global map.

Exactly. That’s a boatload of money in India. You can afford full-time driver, housekeeper, security guard, gardener, chef, etc and live like a king. Americans can’t imagine the type of life people in those countries can live with a million dollars.

[2017ish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko ... [Some of] The $5-10MM+ crew live in an entirely different world than those in the $1MM range. Their movements should be a lot more interesting than "the millionaire next door ". Lumping them all together must skew the charts as there are likely a lot more millionaires than multi, multi millionaires.

Based upon our friends, I'd agree that as you move up the ladder, things change. Not so much (at least in their cases) how you live, but how you plan for your death and distribution of assets. (Talking about people above the present estate tax exemption for couples, so well beyond your 10mill.... But, they are US citizens, which is another issue, as others have noted.)

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letj Exactly. That’s a boatload of money in India. You can afford full-time driver, housekeeper, security guard, gardener, chef, etc and live like a king. Americans can’t imagine the type of life people in those countries can live with a million dollars.

Well, that's sort of my point. It's an apples to oranges comparison that again, skews the data. The study would be more relevant if it tracked first world multimillionaires instead of lumping the entire world's wealthy into one class.

As noted, a US multimillionaire has fewer tax exile options than one from many other countries so, thats another misleading data point.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markola One reason the US doesn’t lose millionaires is probably because, unlike many expats, no American can escape US taxes, no matter where they run to!

True dat

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiseux They can renounce, but that would be primarily those between $1 and $2M in this chart, I would think, due to the Exit Tax.

The exit tax is a biggie plus they first have to attain dual citizenship before they can renounce. (You can't be stateless)

[Bigdawg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car-Guy I hope we don't try to define what is included in NW again.

Only if we can debate when to take SS.

[deserat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan True dat The exit tax is a biggie plus they first have to attain dual citizenship before they can renounce. (You can't be stateless)

I have been looking into this and have come to the conclusion that those who in their childhoods had dual citizenship or triple! are the ones who will have these options at the least expensive price. For example, I spoke with a guy who is an American and Canadian citizen due to his parentage and married a German citizen. His children have US, Canadian and German citizenship or access to services each of those citizenships offer. For me to get that type of 'coverage' if you will, I would have to pay taxes across three different countries - as many on Boglehead and here have attested, the Tax treaties are tortuous especially between the US and other countries due to the US insistence on taxation of income regardless of citizen location (they probably also said on another planet!) and our tax free or deferred investment vehicle options are not considered so in their countries. One must have a lot of money to burn without jeopardizing one's lifestyle to have that type of an existence.

So, I will not be the perpetual nomad I thought and will be re-homing to the US in my retirement travels to reset clocks with regard to visa/visit time-frames. I just consider myself fortunate to have had the opportunities I have had the last few decades to live overseas on the economy for extended periods of time and travel locally.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deserat I have been looking into this and have come to the conclusion that those who in their childhoods had dual citizenship or triple! are the ones who will have these options at the least expensive price. For example, I spoke with a guy who is an American and Canadian citizen due to his parentage and married a German citizen. His children have US, Canadian and German citizenship or access to services each of those citizenships offer. For me to get that type of 'coverage' if you will, I would have to pay taxes across three different countries - as many on Boglehead and here have attested, the Tax treaties are tortuous especially between the US and other countries due to the US insistence on taxation of income regardless of citizen location (they probably also said on another planet!) and our tax free or deferred investment vehicle options are not considered so in their countries. One must have a lot of money to burn without jeopardizing one's lifestyle to have that type of an existence. So, I will not be the perpetual nomad I thought and will be re-homing to the US in my retirement travels to reset clocks with regard to visa/visit time-frames. I just consider myself fortunate to have had the opportunities I have had the last few decades to live overseas on the economy for extended periods of time and travel locally.

I'm sure there will be different situations between countries depending on tax treaties but it is not a universal situation where you pay taxes on your income from a particular country to that country. Millionaires can usually afford good tax advisors.

The US is the only country (and Eritrea) that taxes its citizens no matter where they live. I was receiving plenty of UK sourced income including pensions while living in the USA and it was all only taxable in the USA. To be tax free like this in the UK only required an HMRC tax form, sent via the IRS, to confirm I was resident there to have a zero tax code issued so no withholdings (aka PAYE in the UK) are made. Similarly, tax free distributions distributions from Roths are also tax free in the UK, although distributions from US deferred pension schemes to UK residents require foreign tax credits to equal out the taxes. (You pay UK tax first then claim that tax as a foreign tax credit on US taxes due)

I also know that my brother is in a similar situation in Australia where he receives both State and private pensions from the UK that are not taxed in the UK.

[Markola]

^^^^^ I have British friends, a married couple, who work for a US company in NYC and recently earned their US citizenships. Of course, I said, “Congratulations!” but I was thinking, for tax reasons, “Now, why would you want to do that?”

[MarieIG]

I was willing to migrate when newly married if that was what DH wanted, but now I have more attachments (children, grandchildren) and have become more of a homebody.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markola ^^^^^ I have British friends, a married couple, who work for a US company in NYC and recently earned their US citizenships. Of course, I said, “Congratulations!” but I was thinking, for tax reasons, “Now, why would you want to do that?”

There are many good reasons to get US citizenship if you have the chance, as we did and have no regrets, but if you are pretty sure the assignment is only temporary then definitely worth thinking twice. Most folks don't know that the US has citizenship based taxation, or what it really means.

[pjm-7]

Said it before, don't let taxes wag the dog. My time is way more valuable than to spend it on trying to save some dollars on taxes by moving to another country. You can structure your financial affairs to avoid taxes, however, tax evasion is a crime. Yes, I have looked into Canadian citizenship that could be through my dad, but it seems like more of a hassle than it would be worth.

[Gumby]

I have dual citizenship, but unless things really go sideways, I will be staying in the United States.