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Old 10-04-2021, 06:05 PM   #21
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I wish the Pandora paper disclosures would make a difference, but they won’t - at all…
Unfortunately I agree. I would like to be wrong.
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Old 10-04-2021, 07:08 PM   #22
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I wish the Pandora paper disclosures would make a difference, but they won’t - at all…
Agreed. Maybe we should bookmark this thread and re-visit in 9-18 months and see. I suspect it'll be long forgotten by then...maybe as early as next week.
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:50 PM   #23
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I think it is funny how the public abhors having their personal data stolen, but revels in seeing the data of others stolen and published.



That said, I suspect the vast majority of these transactions are legal. The uber-rich hire people to make sure of that.


Yes, I’m sure most DO use legal tools to help the uber-rich have lower tax rates than you and I pay, and perhaps in the shadows they can avoid paying taxes altogether. That’s precisely the problem for civil society that tax havens foster.

Maybe others here either don’t yet grasp the growing risks to our political economy associated with ever-ballooning wealth inequality. As a history major, I do, because it nearly always leads to very sharp “corrections”, of the kind that none of us on this board of millionaires and multimillionaires would enjoy living through very much.
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:59 PM   #24
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I hope my name doesn't come up......
Good one!
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Old 10-05-2021, 07:16 AM   #25
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Got to look into South Dakota.
Well, why would they waste their time on DC?

As always, the majority of people targeted will be on the wrong side politically.
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Old 10-05-2021, 09:11 AM   #26
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Isn't South Dakota also one of the easiest states to establish legal residency in, and (in theory) avoid taxes in the state one actually lives in? Hmmmm...
That reminds me. Isn't South Dakota the state RV'rs like to register residency to avoid sales tax on the purchase of $$$ RV's? Trickle down tax avoidance?
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Old 10-05-2021, 09:13 AM   #27
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Today it’s mostly about the fallout in the UK. https://www.theguardian.com/news/liv...eps-claim-live
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Old 10-05-2021, 09:31 AM   #28
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Meh...Anyone remember the Panama papers back in '16? Nothing happened after that. My guess is because the major media have CEOs and others that are part of the group.
Yep, that's my fear. Big story when it comes out, the rich make sure nothing happens. New laws and regs *might* happen, tax lawyers and greedy locales figure out how to avoid them.

See: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-money/620298/

Agree that the growing wealth inequality has a real chance of causing a lot of bad things to happen.
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Old 10-05-2021, 11:02 AM   #29
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That reminds me. Isn't South Dakota the state RV'rs like to register residency to avoid sales tax on the purchase of $$$ RV's? Trickle down tax avoidance?
Yes, for full timers for sure.
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Old 10-05-2021, 11:09 AM   #30
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Yes, I’m sure most DO use legal tools to help the uber-rich have lower tax rates than you and I pay, and perhaps in the shadows they can avoid paying taxes altogether. That’s precisely the problem for civil society that tax havens foster.

Maybe others here either don’t yet grasp the growing risks to our political economy associated with ever-ballooning wealth inequality. As a history major, I do, because it nearly always leads to very sharp “corrections”, of the kind that none of us on this board of millionaires and multimillionaires would enjoy living through very much.
Much of what 'the rest of us' complain about is legal even if not within the spirit of the laws. Tax loopholes are not happy accidents. If one of us were suddenly among the .01% we wouldn't pay more than our legally required taxes. Until you curb or eliminate campaign contributions (democracies at least), good luck...
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Old 10-05-2021, 12:10 PM   #31
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New laws and regs *might* happen, tax lawyers and greedy locales figure out how to avoid them.
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Tax loopholes are not happy accidents. .
Sometimes such heralded 'expose's' like Pandora end up merely identifying the weaknesses in a strategy. The journalists are simply doing the hard work for them! A stress-test of sorts.

They can then 'adjust' the laws and loopholes such that even bigger dodges are clearly and perfectly legal with no grey area...and much harder to find.

That's why tax accountants and lobbyists live in nice big houses!
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Old 10-05-2021, 12:16 PM   #32
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Much of what 'the rest of us' complain about is legal even if not within the spirit of the laws. Tax loopholes are not happy accidents. If one of us were suddenly among the .01% we wouldn't pay more than our legally required taxes. Until you curb or eliminate campaign contributions (democracies at least), good luck...


Agree.
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Old 10-05-2021, 12:53 PM   #33
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I think it is funny how the public abhors having their personal data stolen, but revels in seeing the data of others stolen and published.

That said, one of our major political parties (which I won't name) subscribe to the philosophy that the ends justify the means.
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Old 10-05-2021, 01:30 PM   #34
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South Dakota may save on vehicle sales tax and state income tax…but Federal is still the biggest bite. Gotta believe there are foreign residency would be less expensive.
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Old 10-05-2021, 01:57 PM   #35
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South Dakota may save on vehicle sales tax and state income tax…but Federal is still the biggest bite. Gotta believe there are foreign residency would be less expensive.
Foreign residency does not eliminate your Federal income taxes unless you also renounce your citizenship.
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Old 10-05-2021, 03:15 PM   #36
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Foreign residency does not eliminate your Federal income taxes unless you also renounce your citizenship.
For high income and/or high net worth US citizens the expatriation tax is also applied on renunciation.

https://www.expatnetwork.com/how-to-...-implications/

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An Expatriation tax is payable if you are a ‘covered expatriate’ which will apply if:

Your average net income tax for the five years ending before the date of expatriation is more than a specified figure that is adjusted for inflation ($160,000 for 2018.
Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation.
You cannot certify tax compliance.
If you qualify as a covered expat you will be treated as having disposed of your assets the day before your expatriation and will be subject to capital gains tax. The first $699,000 of any assessed gains are exempt and any gains beyond this will be taxed as a short term or long term gain.

The Expatriation Tax is generally only an issue for very high net worth individuals, but the inability to certify tax compliance draws many people, including accidental Americans, into the tax. The exemption of $699,000 will take many out of having to pay any tax, but property or other gains can have an impact. It is essential to take advice before you renounce your citizenship to see if you can structure things to avoid being a covered expat and, if this is not possible, to structure your affairs to eliminate or minimise any taxable gains.
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Old 10-05-2021, 04:33 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by jollystomper View Post
Isn't South Dakota also one of the easiest states to establish legal residency in, and (in theory) avoid taxes in the state one actually lives in? Hmmmm...
I know this is where you get license plates if you don't live in the US - RVs in Mexico.
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Old 10-07-2021, 09:35 AM   #38
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Here’s a good, brief summary of the Pandora Papers in the context of all of the other leaks. With over 11 million files to wade through, it will take years to open this Pandora’s box, prosecute any wrongdoers, embarrass people who maneuver in the shadows to pay fewer taxes than you and I do, and try to reform laws and rules.

Is it wrong to leak people’s private records? Normally, yes, but these people are not subject to audits, like you and I are. So, these leaks are not going to stop, because leaks are the only way to clarify how elites are depriving their societies of revenues that the rest of us are required to pay. In that sense, the rest of us subsidize these “tax optimizers” and, in some cases, “cheats” to the tune of trillions of lost tax revenues to run our countries and pay our debts and deficits.

https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/1...-investigation
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:12 AM   #39
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Most "explosive" (term used in the link above) or "bombshell" reports these days are forgotten with few if any consequences eventually. With faux "bombshells" every day now, we all forget sooner than ever before. Loopholes have existed forever, and could be fixed pretty easily, but they were all bought and paid for - again, none of them are happy accidents...

And there have been articles about companies and very wealthy individuals paying little or reduced taxes throughout my adult life. I don't recall any of them being "embarrassed" for more than a few weeks if that - unless they've actually broken a law, and that's not the case more often than not.
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:27 AM   #40
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My problem with most of these exposés is that they fuzzy the line between tax avoidance and tax cheats.

You may want to change what constitutes tax avoidance, that’s all well and good, but tax avoiders are still operating within the law and don’t deserve to have their private matters exposed in the newspaper.

Actual criminal tax cheats don’t deserve any such protection.
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