The Pandora Papers: It will be a bad week for international tax cheats

pb4uski said:
The sad reality is that both US major political parties believe that the end justifies the means and they act accordingly.
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Yeah, I've been scratching my head - trying to figure out which party we were talking about. Either/Or seems to fit. I'll say no more as YMMV.
 
Meanwhile, as we 'tsk tsk' such shenanigans, local counties are still giving heavy tax breaks to the likes of huge, wealthy companies like Amazon, Tesla et. al.

Not much different IMO.
 
marko,

I can’t see how the two situations, purposes, or intents by those involved are alike, at all.
 
stephenson said:
marko,

I can’t see how the two situations, purposes, or intents by those involved are alike, at all.
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What I see are wealthy individuals AND corporations.

The individual is taking advantage of legal means (for the most part) to reduce his taxes. The corporation is taking advantage of legal means to reduce their taxes through tax break 'incentives'.

Bezos gets rich(er) by reducing his personal taxes whilst Amazon gets tax breaks which further enriches him. Both are at the expense of the little guy.

As this thread outlines, there are legal means to reduce one's taxes and illegal means. I'm just not eager to lump the former in with the latter. We can argue or agree on the need to change the legal means but I just don't see that happening any time soon.

Last week's 'bombshell' revelation was that Mr. Putin has put up his ex-girlfriend in a $4MM condo in Monaco. And........? I doubt he's losing sleep on that one.
 
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^^^^ Well, until they can be properly audited to determine whether their means are, in fact, legal or not, people or corporations setting up offshore trusts wrapped in hidden shell companies certainly deserve to be embarrassed through periodic data leaks.
 
marko,

Still not in agreement - at all.

And, don't forget the despots who are not trying to escape taxes, but are simply using these structures to steal money from their political subjects.

I would like to see teams from every country in the world meet to determine who and how this occurs - then, agree broadly to shut them down - full investigations, full and open discussion and full action to sort it all out - send some to prison, embarrass others, cause other to lose their board seats and their jobs. Along the lines of the recent effort to get agreement on an international minimum corporate tax.
 
Markola said:
^^^^ Well, until they can be properly audited to determine whether their means are, in fact, legal or not, people or corporations setting up offshore trusts wrapped in hidden shell companies certainly deserve to be embarrassed through periodic data leaks.
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I do agree with the sentiment however 1) there's a certain 'guilty even after proven innocent' in these cases and 2) I seriously doubt there's much embarrassment on the part of those involved (see my Putin comment above).

However as Jean Rostand once quipped: "Nothing is more admirable than the fortitude with which (b)illionaires tolerate the disadvantages of their wealth"
 
stephenson said:
marko,

Still not in agreement - at all.

And, don't forget the despots who are not trying to escape taxes, but are simply using these structures to steal money from their political subjects.

I would like to see teams from every country in the world meet to determine who and how this occurs - then, agree broadly to shut them down - full investigations, full and open discussion and full action to sort it all out - send some to prison, embarrass others, cause other to lose their board seats and their jobs. Along the lines of the recent effort to get agreement on an international minimum corporate tax.
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I think you're confusing my position on legal activities and tax reduction tools and illegal ones. I'm not willing to lump Bezos and Musk into the same boat as some banana republic dictator/despot/murderer.

If you are, that's your position and I'm fine with that but we'll just have to disagree.

I think we would all like to see "...teams from every country in the world meet to determine who and how this occurs - then, agree broadly to shut them down..."; I'd like to see free ice cream for everybody every day, but I'm just trying to live in the reality I'm given.

And with that, I have some real, more serious things to do and think about today.
 
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marko said:
2) I seriously doubt there's much embarrassment on the part of those involved (see my Putin comment above). "[/I]
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Putin is a unique criminal kleptocrat who is fully insulated from consequences, so he’s not a fair comparison to the run of the mill multimillionaires and billionaires whose offshore transactions should be exposed through leaks, examined by teams of experts, as is happening with the Pandora Papers, and prosecuted by their home countries for any wrong doing found. Sunlight is the best disinfectant we have.
 
Meh - I have lots of things I can think about today. and this is in the mix.

I do want to be clear - major corporations not paying sufficient taxes, robber barons not paying sufficient taxes is a major economic issue for the US - and, the world. We've done it once in the US - shut them down, hard. Trace a few decisions to illegal ones, and send them to prison.

Folks that are proud of paying no or minimum taxes? Sure, they're easy to find - they mouth off about it - research their information until we can all see what they are doing - and, how they are getting away with it.

This yahoo/cowboy tax avoidance environment needs to be squeezed - hard.

Have a great day!
 
marko said:
Last week's 'bombshell' revelation was that Mr. Putin has put up his ex-girlfriend in a $4MM condo in Monaco. And........? I doubt he's losing sleep on that one.
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What should be the real bombshells are the career politicians with $20 and $50 million (and higher) net worths instead of what some despot across the ocean does. It's no surprise Putin is rich, that's not even newsworthy.
 
I guess I have less of an issue with that, as long as the earnings were legal. Speakers fees and corporate board stock options add up for a retired president, who might know zippo about business but are valuable to a company, because they can literally get anyone on the planet to return their call. It’s those who hide it from the countries they led that bother me. David Cameron was one.
 
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Music Lover said:
What should be the real bombshells are the career politicians with $20 and $50 million (and higher) net worths instead of what some despot across the ocean does. It's no surprise Putin is rich, that's not even newsworthy.
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kcowan said:
The problem is we can't name them on this forum.
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Music Lover said:
We can't. But the media could (and should) name them. But they choose not to...and that's not by accident.
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Wait, so what is this supposed to tell me? That you three have read through the Pandora Papers, and have identified multiple politicians (US?) with high net worth that have been implicated, but these names are not being publicized in the mainstream media? Is that what you are saying?
 
jollystomper said:
Isn't South Dakota also one of the easiest states to establish legal residency in, and (in theory) avoid taxes in the state one actually lives in? Hmmmm...
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Part one (residency), correct.
Part two, (avoid tax where you actually live), incorrect. States are very aggressive about tracking those taxpayers who change residency. You are guilty until proven innocent during a residency audit if you leave some states. See for example ]https://www.marketwatch.com/story/if-youre-moving-to-a-state-with-lower-taxes-move-carefully-2019-09-27[/URL]
 
Out-to-Lunch said:
Wait, so what is this supposed to tell me? That you three have read through the Pandora Papers, and have identified multiple politicians (US?) with high net worth that have been implicated, but these names are not being publicized in the mainstream media? Is that what you are saying?
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I don't know if any are in the Pandora Papers. I do know that the media has never been interested in how they acquired so much wealth. But yet they determine that Putin putting his girlfriend in an expensive apartment is more newsworthy? Lol.
 
SecondAttempt said:
Interesting that after the announcement that this would be a bombshell week...nothing.
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You are uninformed. Ask the King of Jordan, the presidents of Kenya, Ecuador and Chile. And there is new US legislation being introduced. https://thehill.com/policy/finance/...s-from-a-massive-leak-of-world-leaders-secret

The Czech prime minister was caught just before an election, causing his party his party to lose elections they’d seemed certain to win. https://www.archyde.com/pandora-pap...ing-is-coming-pedro-pablo-kuczynski-politics/

The Chilean President is facing impeachment. https://news.yahoo.com/chiles-pinera-faces-impeachment-bid-125939305.html

Fallout is happening publicly and quietly all over the world, both from wrongdoing and the perception of wrongdoing. This smelly, complex stuff takes years to unravel and prosecute, so this evidence will be added to the dozens of other previous leaks, and new ones for authorities to sort out. These repeated, frequent data leaks are the only check that voters, journalists and tax authorities have on audit-proof tycoons and outright kleptocrats, so maybe they will start to think twice before going offshore, or at least sleep uneasily if they have.
 
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SecondAttempt said:
Interesting that after the announcement that this would be a bombshell week...nothing.
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Can't comment on the current use of the term "bombshell" but it certainly has been overused in the past few years. In most of those cases, it truly was...nothing. YMMV
 
Koolau said:
Can't comment on the current use of the term "bombshell" but it certainly has been overused in the past few years. In most of those cases, it truly was...nothing. YMMV
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+1

The term has become meaningless. Or rather, it usually means someone hopes a report that aligns with their politics creates discomfort in the other side.
 
Music Lover said:
I don't know if any are in the Pandora Papers. I do know that the media has never been interested in how they acquired so much wealth. But yet they determine that Putin putting his girlfriend in an expensive apartment is more newsworthy? Lol.
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I apologize: I had the impression that your initial comments referred to the Pandora Papers in particular. I didn't realize that your target was simply politicians who are rich.
 
My brother lives in SD and works in Sioux falls for a small state, rent and housing is high given the low wages that most people make in the state. granted licence fees for vehicles is dirt cheap,but living there has few benefits and winters are very harsh and summers are as well. He is looking to get out and move to Boise ID. He makes just over 100K in computer security/programming. As far as pandora box goes even criminals have to store their $$$$ someplace so SD is as good as any. no one ever really thinks about the place it is so under the radar.
 
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