The Three Stooges appear before the senate banking committee---wooowooowoo

[cashflo2u2]

Maybe it's me, but if these 3 guys are the captains of the auto industry, no wonder they are in the ditch. What does anybody else feel about their performance.

[Notmuchlonger]

Has the UAW president been raked over the coals yet?

[al_bundy]

cnbc and c-span have live video feeds

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashflo2u2 Maybe it's me, but if these 3 guys are the captains of the auto industry, no wonder they are in the ditch. What does anybody else feel about their performance.

To use a phrase from my youngest son: "No more excusements"........

The President of the UAW looks like a snake oil salesman. Waggoner looks like a man on death row. Mulally seems upbeat. Nardelli from Chrysler looks smug.

[FIREd]

Before seeing the stooges before congress I was luke warm about bailing them out. Now I am completely against.


"We were doing fine until the credit crunch started"... really It just confirms that they don't get it. And don't get me started on the UAW guy...

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREdreamer Before seeing the stooges before congress I was luke warm about bailing them out. Now I am completely against.

How those guys made it to the CEo desks I have no idea.

Quote:

"We were doing fine until the credit crunch started"... really It just confirms that they don't get it. And don't get me started on the UAW guy...

No,you doing fine until gas hit $4 a gallon and noone wanted your low quality behemoth SUVs anymore...........

The UAW guy is a putz........his only plan is to suck a paycheck........

[Poundkey]

The fact that the UAW guy was even present at these meetings reaffirms how I've felt about the whole mess.

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poundkey The fact that the UAW guy was even present at these meetings reaffirms how I've felt about the whole mess.

We need the soup Nazi:

"NO BAILOUTS FOR YOU, ONE YEAR"!!!

If GM can make it a year, we can reconsider........

[deepc]

Article on CNN right now re their corporate jet travel to the meeting. 20k$ trip vs. 500$ first class fare.

They did it for their "safety".

Let 'em sink.

[TromboneAl]

That CEOs flew private jets to ask for bailout article is the nail in their coffin. It is deliciously ironic.*

Even if it were justifiable (do you want the CEO to waste time sitting around in the airport, or working on the problem?) it just doesn't look right. It will make it hard to justify the bailout to main street.

*That same phrase (deliciously ironic) is in the article. I thought I came up with that, but I must have read it.

[cardude]

OK, I admit that the CEOs didn't make their case all that well, but the fact of the matter is we still need to do it. Hell, they are auto execs, not professional beggars and they kind of sucked at it. Maybe to their credit.

Letting one of them slip into regular BK would not work according to most experts because the credit markets are not operating as they should. They probably will not be able to secure DIP financing, and as a result will have to slip to chapter 7. The problem with that is if one goes down it will kill off many of the suppliers, who are all interrelated and work for GM, Chrysler and Ford, so that could domino the other two left standing.

The government sponsored DIP financing plan may work, but the point was made why wait until they declare BK to help them-- doesn't it make sense to help them BEFORE they have to BK, possibly saving the brand goodwill and not leaving the dealer network (me) out to dry?

It just floors me that we will bail out all the white collar finance firms, but won't give a piddly 25B to the auto manufactures. All I saw from congress (less from the house today) was a bunch of stupid grandstanding trying to look good for their constituents. The worst was Shelby from Alabama, who seems to be pushing his own agenda since his state has a Mercedes, Honda and a Hyundai plant and has no interest in having any of the domestic manufacturers survive IMO. It's just a crying shame, and I had a bad feeling when we started letting foreign manufacturers build plants over here and send the profits back to the home country. Now they have our politicians in their pocket. Very tricky.

[Hank]

They produce things that the market doesn't want to buy and propping them up will only leave them as zombies. Sure we'll save some jobs for a while but eventually the competition will beat them. They had 30 years to fix the problems and they decided to make SUVs -- which everyone loved -- but love fades.

Nardelli is a joke and is definitely smug. GM also is running full page ads in the times and wSJ explaining how progressive his company is and how well positioned they are for the future. They need to produce an electric car that people can embrace.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardude Hell, they are auto execs, not professional beggars and they kind of sucked at it.

I agree: they suck at being executives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardude The government sponsored DIP financing plan may work, but the point was made why wait until they declare BK to help them-- doesn't it make sense to help them BEFORE they have to BK, possibly saving the brand goodwill and not leaving the dealer network (me) out to dry?

The dealer network is part of the problem. They have far too many of them--it's inefficient. Toyota has far fewer dealers and they sell many more vehicles per dealer. Even if the dealers don't directly cost the automakers money, working with all of them does. Sorry. Buggywhips . . . The dealer networks, the labor contracts (including the job banks, etc), the retirement plans, the medical benefits--it's all got to be looked at and much of it will be thrown overboard if these ships are to stay afloat and continue to employ any workers at all. This can probably only happen in Chapter 11.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardude . . . I had a bad feeling when we started letting foreign manufacturers build plants over here and send the profits back to the home country. Now they have our politicians in their pocket. Very tricky.

About the only thing keeping Ford and GM afloat at all is their foreign sales (mostly of vehicles built in foreign locations). If you are a fan of the Big Three, you should be a BIG fan of "allowing" automakers to build (and sell) cars overseas and send the money home. Or maybe you think it should only be allowed in one direction.

Protectionism doesn't work. It will never be 1950 again. We can either get serious about competing in a world market or get our clocks cleaned and leave a poorer nation to our kids.

[cardude]

If GM did some kind of government-sponsored chapter 11 (the only way it could possibly work), the government would have to provide:

1. DIP financing for how many billions of dollars? More than 25-50B I bet.
2. Warranty fund. How many billions will it take to fund that?

Also, shutting dealerships will put hundreds of thousands out of work and increase unemployment claims. Hundreds of thousands of GM employees will lose their good paying (maybe a little too good some say) assembly jobs and will rely on the government for unemployment benefits and healthcare and retraining. Plus, the government will lose payroll and income taxes on all these lost jobs. Oh yeah, I forgot about all the suppliers and other jobs that would be lost due to GM no longer having to actually pay them, so that's probably another 500K jobs. What's the price tag to the government for all that? Oh, and then Chrysler and maybe Ford may have to follow suit, so then you get to multiply all this by 3. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

Instead, the government could float a "LITTLE" 25B (MAYBE 50B?) BRIDGE LOAN. It could actually work! You never know! It doesn't seem that expensive to try compared to the government sponsored bankruptcy alternative.

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardude Instead, the government could float a "LITTLE" 25B (MAYBE 50B?) BRIDGE LOAN. It could actually work! You never know! It doesn't seem that expensive to try compared to the government sponsored bankruptcy alternative.

Wagoner admitted this morning that $25B (for the 3 car companies) would only take them to the end of March 2009. I have heard experts say it would take at least $100B for them to survive. How in the world are they going to repay that kind of money? The bond market is saying they are already deadbeat debtors...

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardude Instead, the government could float a "LITTLE" 25B (MAYBE 50B?) BRIDGE LOAN. It could actually work! You never know! It doesn't seem that expensive to try compared to the government sponsored bankruptcy alternative.

Cardude, have you seen this thread? http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...nyt-40652.html

I seriously doubt you'll find much support from the public or from our elected officials for a loan to an bunch of industrial dinosaurs. Seems to me that something along the lines of what this article describes is the only thing that makes sense.

Doesn't bode well for your future. Very sorry that you are in the wrong business at the wrong time...

[ats5g]

Flying in their private jets to DC is almost as funny as during the NBA player's strike when the players showed up in their $50,000 outfits complaining that they need more money.

Seriously though, when the big three run through the $25B where are they going to get more loans if the credit markets are not working?

[Goonie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ats5g Seriously though, when the big three run through the $25B where are they going to get more loans if the credit markets are not working?

They'll fly back to DC again in their private jets, and beg for some more!

[Meadbh]

They just don't get it, do they?

[saluki9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashflo2u2 Maybe it's me, but if these 3 guys are the captains of the auto industry, no wonder they are in the ditch. What does anybody else feel about their performance.

Remember, only two of these guys have been in the auto business for more than a year. I think it's unfair to group Mulally in with the other two, he left a lucrative spot running a very successful business to join this funeral parade.

Worse than their performance, how about the guys doing the grilling? Isn't that more funny? Remember these are the folks that gather their revenue at gunpoint, I guess that makes it easier to criticize real businesspeople.