|
|
Thoughts on unemployment and age
03-20-2012, 04:10 PM
|
#1
|
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,716
|
Thoughts on unemployment and age
Had lunch with a good friend over the weekend. She has her own business, specialized professional recruiting, and when we get together she always has insights into the economy and hiring in certain business segments. One thing she has helped me understand in the past was how companies practice age based hiring. This get together was to catch up and we only spent a few minutes talking business but one thing she said is that age discrimination is getting worse, businesses that are hiring have lowered the age threshold and now are not hiring people past their early 40’s. Also surprising was the reason – I suggested health care costs, but her view is those extra costs don’t make that much of a difference, and employers are now looking for younger people that are more willing to do “whatever it takes” to “get the job done”. That is, working 60+ hours per week to achieve cost reduction goals that were unthinkable a few years ago using harsh methods that some shy away from.
Ours is a tough economy and, if this is true and widespread, older unemployed people are in for a long, hard time. All the more reason to start saving early.
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
03-20-2012, 04:24 PM
|
#2
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
|
It's hard for people of any age to get a job these days and that is a terrible thing. When an applicant has even one strike against him/her, such as age, it is pretty hard to overcome.
It's hard for older people to work 60 to 80+ hours, but my dear friend F. was doing this regularly in his mid-50's. The overtime helped him to retire, but it was hard on his health. He is tough and did it anyway. He is doing a lot better now that we are retired, de-stressed, and going to the gym three times a week.
I'll tell you what - - I won't compete with people of any age for the jobs that may come up from here on out.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 04:39 PM
|
#3
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,629
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
Had lunch with a good friend over the weekend. She has her own business, specialized professional recruiting, and when we get together she always has insights into the economy and hiring in certain business segments. One thing she has helped me understand in the past was how companies practice age based hiring. This get together was to catch up and we only spent a few minutes talking business but one thing she said is that age discrimination is getting worse, businesses that are hiring have lowered the age threshold and now are not hiring people past their early 40’s. Also surprising was the reason – I suggested health care costs, but her view is those extra costs don’t make that much of a difference, and employers are now looking for younger people that are more willing to do “whatever it takes” to “get the job done”. That is, working 60+ hours per week to achieve cost reduction goals that were unthinkable a few years ago using harsh methods that some shy away from.
Ours is a tough economy and, if this is true and widespread, older unemployed people are in for a long, hard time. All the more reason to start saving early.
|
This seems very believable to me. I think there's been a change in young workers attitudes. Many grew up in a time of low unemployment, and expected to find good jobs.
Now, a few years into the Great Recession, they're rapidly adjusting to the tough life.
I have a young relative who worked at multiple unpaid "internships" just to establish some work history before he found a (poorly) paying job.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 04:42 PM
|
#4
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,688
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
... and employers are now looking for younger people that are more willing to do “whatever it takes” to “get the job done”. That is, working 60+ hours per week to achieve cost reduction goals that were unthinkable a few years ago using harsh methods that some shy away from.
|
Interesting. If the frequently prevailing view about generation Y's attitude to work is correct, then employers are in for a reality check: Generation Y: they don't live for work ... they work to live | Money | The Observer
I do agree with W2R - it gets harder to put in very long hours as you get older
__________________
Budgeting is a skill practised by people who are bad at politics.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 04:48 PM
|
#5
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,186
|
At first thought after reading MichaelB's post, it seemed like this should be a good time for an entrepreneurial minded person to go into business. With many potential employees available who'd be "willing to do whatever it takes" and to "do so much for so little," how could you lose?
But I wonder if it's really true. Would this economy be condusive to launching new businesses? Or would factors other than the availability of employees "willing to do what it takes" be trumped by other negative economic factors?
I have no urge to put assets at risk, hire people and launch a business, but I'm a geezer and past that. Maybe theFed will see this and comment.........
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 05:20 PM
|
#6
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 851
|
>>then employers are in for a reality check:
I don't think it will be the employers, it will be the GenY's that will be at the loosing end. Those that are smart, motivated and willing to work harder and longer than anyone else, will become rich. Those that are not willing/able will not do as well, and companies will continue to ship jobs overseas, at least some of them, to people that will work long and hard for very little money.
I worked in industries (financial services and technology), were people routinely worked 80+ hour weeks. At least I always got paid by the hour (as a contractor/consultant), but my client used to brag about how much he got his team to work...sometimes topping over 100 hours, and most of them were on salary. In his defense, he always worked just as hard and just as long and was also on salary, but he didn't make a lot of friends.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 05:36 PM
|
#7
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
employers are now looking for younger people that are more willing to do “whatever it takes” to “get the job done”. That is, working 60+ hours per week to achieve cost reduction goals that were unthinkable a few years ago using harsh methods that some shy away from.
|
My sense is that the competitive pressures that used to be unique to prestige positions are spreading to every area of the labor market. 100% commitment to the job is fast becoming a minimum standard. I'd say this is a bad development for workers in general, but until now hadn't considered how much worse it might be for older workers in particular.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 05:36 PM
|
#8
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
|
Say what you will, but nothing motivates people like hunger. And many young folks without work are hungry.
If us geezers should find our financial means curtailed, how many would rather sell a kidney like Khan often says, or go do some w*rk?
Dunno about the rest of y'all, but I love my kidneys, even if they produce stones (big ones too!).
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 05:42 PM
|
#9
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,304
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
Had lunch with a good friend over the weekend. She has her own business, specialized professional recruiting,... employers are now looking for younger people that are more willing to do “whatever it takes” to “get the job done”. That is, working 60+ hours per week to achieve cost reduction goals that were unthinkable a few years ago using harsh methods that some shy away from.
Ours is a tough economy and, if this is true and widespread, older unemployed people are in for a long, hard time.
|
Hadn't thought about it, but it doesn't surprise me much. The most successful people I worked with (in manufacturing) worked 60+ hrs/week (productively, not just putting in time for appearances) at all salaried levels except clerical. Most of us were on call 24/7 our entire careers, though fortunately the calls could be handled on the phone more often than not. Our most senior Officers probably worked the most hours, many were divorced as a result. It was very competitive out there when I left 9 months ago. Those who didn't work more than 40-50 hrs/wk were unlikely to advance, but some consciously made that choice.
I am starting to think if you want to be successful in the creative class, you're going to have to work long, productive hours. Maybe the service industry won't be as demanding, but they don't pay well either. The middle has been hollowed out, sent offshore - as we all know.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 05:56 PM
|
#10
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: seattle
Posts: 646
|
60 -80 hours per week!!!? [Not to mention 100...] No wonder RE is popular around here.
I am in the construction business, we have what we call shifts. You go home, somebody else takes your place... <G>
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 06:06 PM
|
#11
|
gone traveling
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: back in the woods
Posts: 23
|
My son-in-law works for a Power Plant, and He says they want to hire the younger generation, but they miss work, never on time, and on their phones constantly. They will start you working 10hrs a day, 7 days a week, sometimes for 2 weeks straight. Pay $95k. He says, the turn over is real high for the younger kids, and they have been hiring people over 50 years young. The older generation is here everyday.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 06:14 PM
|
#12
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,304
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wargames
My son-in-law works for a Power Plant, and He says they want to hire the younger generation, but they miss work, never on time, and on their phones constantly. They will start you working 10hrs a day, 7 days a week, sometimes for 2 weeks straight. Pay $95k. He says, the turn over is real high for the younger kids, and they have been hiring people over 50 years young. The older generation is here everyday.
|
May be applicable, but the OP's friend was "specialized professional recruiting."
May be more like the power plant? We had the same frustration with hourly production, maintenance, quality & warehouse personnel even though we started people at more than $20/hr. Overtime was anathema to most of the younger guys, even those with families. Waiting 10 minutes to "trade off" info with oncoming shifts was a bother to them. And they complained more too. It was the 50-something's you could count on in a pinch, with a few exceptions. But with our process control systems and computer everything, we couldn't hire 50-something's from outside, their success rate was almost nil. It was a rock and a hard place to hire...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 06:28 PM
|
#13
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,330
|
It seems like competition and fear have been driving this trend for the last 25 years (with a brief and narrow diversion among the dot coms). On another thread we were recently talking about the prognosticators who say we will have a significant shortage of skilled workers soon. Maybe we will see a Gen Y revenge against the employers who exploited them during this crunch. Or maybe not.
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 06:40 PM
|
#14
|
gone traveling
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: back in the woods
Posts: 23
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
It seems like competition and fear have been driving this trend for the last 25 years (with a brief and narrow diversion among the dot coms). On another thread we were recently talking about the prognosticators who say we will have a significant shortage of skilled workers soon. Maybe we will see a Gen Y revenge against the employers who exploited them during this crunch. Or maybe not.
|
Since our country has been invaded, The wages have gone down considerably. Corporate America, Uses the this tactic to keep all wages low. I have seen Programmers, Electricians, Plumbers, Executives give up, and Now Drive Trucks, Kid you not.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 06:59 PM
|
#15
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,251
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone4Good
My sense is that the competitive pressures that used to be unique to prestige positions are spreading to every area of the labor market. 100% commitment to the job is fast becoming a minimum standard. I'd say this is a bad development for workers in general, but until now hadn't considered how much worse it might be for older workers in particular.
|
More reason why we need to adopt international labor standards.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 07:17 PM
|
#16
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,765
|
Damn, I was taking a nap. Must have missed the invasion. Was it on CNN?
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 07:24 PM
|
#17
|
gone traveling
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: back in the woods
Posts: 23
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley
Damn, I was taking a nap. Must have missed the invasion. Was it on CNN?
|
I have been in Trucking for 38 years. The Industry has changed. 9 out of 13 of my nieces and nephews are Spanish/American. I have 2 nieces that are Pilots, One Is a flight instructor, and the other Works for Boeing Intl, Another Niece is a CPA, and 1 nephew is a Project Manager for a Electric Company. Hey, My family invaded the U.S.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 08:05 PM
|
#18
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,263
|
All this talk of 60-80 hour work weeks makes me think young people should be more independent and make their own job. Need an extra $20,000? Work more. Want more time with the kids? Cut expenses and work less.
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 08:20 PM
|
#19
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
|
I made the earlier comment regarding younger people willing to work hard, because I have read that the unemployment rate is higher among the 20-something.
Then, just now finished watching a 60 Minutes piece on the Millenial Generation. It said that the younger folks in their 20s were self-absorbed, spoiled, and would not go the extra mile for their employers. It was like Midpack described below.
So, what's the truth? The TV piece above was old. Perhaps the Great Recession has changed them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
May be applicable, but the OP's friend was "specialized professional recruiting."
May be more like the power plant? We had the same frustration with hourly production, maintenance, quality & warehouse personnel even though we started people at more than $20/hr. Overtime was anathema to most of the younger guys, even those with families. Waiting 10 minutes to "trade off" info with oncoming shifts was a bother to them. And they complained more too. It was the 50-something's you could count on in a pinch, with a few exceptions. But with our process control systems and computer everything, we couldn't hire 50-something's from outside, their success rate was almost nil. It was a rock and a hard place to hire...
|
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
|
|
|
03-20-2012, 09:08 PM
|
#20
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,733
|
Pretty much all the data I've seen, article and news magazine I've watched says that while employment for 50 year old is still the highest, finding a job if you are out of work and over 50 is really really tough. It is especially hard for the long term unemployed.
I have 3 friends (one very close) who have been un/underemployed for a least 3 years and one is going on 5 years. I doubt between the 3 of them they made $30,000 last year. They all had savings, and one guy is fortunate to be married to a doctor. The divorced gal and single guy, by many measure have slipped out of the middle class.
I convince my close friend to use 72(t) to at least minimize the penalty for early withdrawals, but I have given up pretending to be able to give any of them advice. I truly have no idea what they should do.
I bet Michael's friend is right, if the job requires 60 hour week a young person is better able to handle it so why hire an old fart. I know if I was hiring that it would at least be in the back of my mind.
I really hope the stock market rally is truly a good sign for the economy.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|