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Old 10-23-2017, 02:15 PM   #21
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Like someone else noted, if you love or even like your job then I guess work till 70. Not that I "hated" my job, but I had my eye on the finish line at a pretty young age.
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:27 PM   #22
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Ms. Orman seems to equate retirement and commencing Social Security. Tsk, tsk. She should know better.

They are completely unrelated.
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:35 PM   #23
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Ah, perhaps not.

Bear in mind that this group is a bunch of outliers, as numerous other threads make clear. So to look at her pontifications though the lens of what is common knowledge and practice among the members here would be, I think, misleading and inaccurate.

The group she is addressing is no one on this board, but we've all met the members of that other group. Those are the ones who think "I can make the payments" = "affordable". Savings? They have a few grand at best and that's a minority. They have never in their lives paid cash for a car or a home, new or used. They have a wallet full of credit cards and routinely carry a balance on most if not all of them from month to month.

Those are the folks who don't have a pension, don't have employer-subsidized HI in retirement, and will be living off SS as their sole source of income when they stop working. I think that constitutes most of the working-age population in the U.S., and yeah, if they're able to, they should work until they're 70 or later.

So for that group, Suze is almost certainly dead on.
Well put...Let me change that to "more useless drivel for me from this woman".
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Old 10-23-2017, 03:58 PM   #24
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There is a sickness that befalls pundits: they start believing their own PR.

Suze Orman knows exactly when you must retire.

Suze Orman Says This Is the Age You Should Retire | Money
Suze is 66. (I'm just sayin') And she seems to enjoy her work even though she's clearly got more money than she will need in several lifetimes. She has made a lot of money selling books, DVDs and seminars. I suspect she still does. Good for her.

Her shows are amusing, but often simplistic and geared to an audience that is not financially very knowledgeable. Some of her basic "rules" make sense for many, and lots of folks would do well to heed some of them. That doesn't mean she is correct in everything she says.

I'm sure she means well, but financial pundits who want to make money must by definition speak to a very wide audience and ignore individual cases. Plus, they don't get any press unless they make outlandish statements every now and then.

Suze: "Can you honestly tell me you're 100% sure you will not run out of money if you start spending down your retirement funds in your 60s and end up living into your 90s?"

Me: I can honestly say that I'm as sure as I need to be that I will not run out of money if I end up living to 100. One can never say anything with 100% surety - not when retiring at 60 and not when retiring at 70. Even if you worked for the rest of your life, you cannot say you are 100% sure that you will not run out of money. But nothing in life is 100%, so I won't make that requirement the rule.

Step 1: Delay Tapping Social Security Until 70 - agreed.
Step 2: Lay the Foundation Now to Work Longer Later - I'll pass.
Step 3: Truly Enjoy a Secure Retirement - that's my plan.
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Old 10-23-2017, 04:12 PM   #25
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I think Suzy is to conservative. I would recommend most folks wait until 80 to retire. Lets keep the golf courses, hiking trails, National parks, cruise ships and idyllic European villages for the early retirees.

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Old 10-23-2017, 05:04 PM   #26
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Members here are not Suze's target audience but maybe their siblings without a dime are.
Sweet!
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:17 PM   #27
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Now I have another reason to dislike Orman. The first reason is her outright dislike of bond funds and how she tells everyone to avoid them. Sheesh, I am living off bond funds and have been enjoying a comfy ER for the last 9 years thanks to bond funds.
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:20 PM   #28
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Shame on me. I thought this was going to be about Suze front running her advice to buy and sell gold on twitter. I couldn't bear to read it but there didn't appear to be any kind of advise on how to figure how much you need. So Suze says work until your 70s and you'll be OK regardless of anything else? Some with DB pensions are penalized for not starting by 65.
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:24 PM   #29
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Shhhhh... we need these people to keep working and paying into the Social Security Trust Fund!
+1
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:35 PM   #30
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Members here are not Suze's target audience but maybe their siblings without a dime are.
Yes. If Suze's is the only financial advice they hear (and she is mainstream, so very likely), that imo is better than none.
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:42 PM   #31
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Suzie, Dave and Money magazine got me thinking about getting out of debt, saving for the future, living below my means, and investing. They may have gotten rich themselves, but they got me on the right track.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:06 PM   #32
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I read in Orman's article much that gets trotted out here and lauded. We have plenty and every year that goes by we stand to need less - yet our NW keeps going up by more than any inflation number I care to use. 70 is fast approaching and yet we still hold the rentals and keep making loans and scheming because why not? I doubt I'll see 100, but I'd rather be overprepared. Maybe if there was a pension and I could convince myself to count on the company or country that guaranteed it I'd feel better. Maybe if I thought health insurance or senior care or inflation wouldn't go wonky I'd quit preparing for worst case - but I doubt it - I trust me most of all. Suze delivers a message the majority of people need to keep getting hammered into their heads - most will ignore it.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:15 PM   #33
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Suzie, Dave and Money magazine got me thinking about getting out of debt, saving for the future, living below my means, and investing. They may have gotten rich themselves, but they got me on the right track.
I agree- while their "always" and "never" pontifications don't always mesh with my philosophies (DR is big on real estate investing and I don't want the hassle; he also thinks all credit cards are pretty much evil and I use mine for everything and never pay interest), they have some solid values. Save early, save often. Live on less than you make. Don't go crazy buying stuff. Pay down your credit card debt and don't run up any more. Don't count on SS alone to support you in old age. They're preaching to the choir here but the general population needs to hear it again and again.

As for Money Magazine- when I was married to the spendthrift Ex and trying to get his cc bills paid down (and he kept running them up again), I couldn't stand to read Money. All those smug couples with a paid-for house and their toddlers' future college education fully funded and $400K in retirement savings, and I was married to a guy who considered any credit line left in his credit cards or his bank overdraft account money that could be spent. Glad those days are behind me.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:16 PM   #34
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Suzie is high
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:31 PM   #35
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I don't see anything wrong with the article. As Walt said, it is not written for this audience, but we are clearly outliers.

I think what she is saying is likely accurate for the majority of the population, as sad as that may sound to all of us here. So let's be grateful this article does not apply to us and not be overly critical of advice that is meant for the masses.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:31 PM   #36
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OOPS! Too late Suze! I guess we will just muddle through, somehow.


Ha ha, my thoughts exactly!
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:40 PM   #37
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Suzie is high
That's why people look up to her.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:44 PM   #38
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The late DW was a mortgage loan officer. She loved working with people that wanted to buy a house but did not have a good enough credit rating. Some she worked with for more than two years. What she really did for them was credit counseling. More than once, we went in to a book store and bought all the copies of a Suz Orman book. She gave away a bunch of those books. Those people had no information about finances. Suz Orman was someone they were comfortable with and someone they could trust. The counseling and books worked for the ones that really wanted a house that they could afford and could make the payments. This was before the housing crash when liar's loans were rampant and anyone could get a house loan. That was not DW's style.
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:29 PM   #39
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The late DW was a mortgage loan officer. She loved working with people that wanted to buy a house but did not have a good enough credit rating. Some she worked with for more than two years. What she really did for them was credit counseling. More than once, we went in to a book store and bought all the copies of a Suz Orman book. She gave away a bunch of those books. Those people had no information about finances. Suz Orman was someone they were comfortable with and someone they could trust. The counseling and books worked for the ones that really wanted a house that they could afford and could make the payments. This was before the housing crash when liar's loans were rampant and anyone could get a house loan. That was not DW's style.
What a sweet spirit and and a blessing your DW was to those that really wanted to learn. Thank you for sharing.

You know I wish that back then there was someone with a gentle hand to guide me rather than I taking the lumps and learning the hard well. It's so easy to be smug now and take an I'm greater than thou attitude. Admittedly way back when I wasn't very teachable. Maybe therein lies the draw, the magic, the gifting whatever you want to call it, that SuzeO and DaveR have. They connect with people where ever they are now.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:22 PM   #40
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So I gotta go back to work for another 21 years? Even though my net worth is up from a year prior?
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