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Old 07-02-2017, 08:20 AM   #21
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I worked for a major auto manufacturer for 24 years and managed a department that administered sales incentives and low APR finance programs. Let me give you some straight (and lengthy) info about the car business:
I was just telling DW that er.org forums were such a treasure trove because of contributions from accomplished people in all sorts of fields... and this post reaffirms this. Thank you!
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Old 07-02-2017, 09:07 AM   #22
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I haven't paid a doc fee in years. They are just "additional dealer profit."

I have a Nissan Frontier pickup. In the buying process I knew that they had brought it in from a dealer 200 miles away. When I sat down with the F&I guy the first thing I did was to cross out his $200 doc. fee. "What are you doing?" ... long story skipped ... He finally looked at me and said "You'd lose this deal for $200?" I said, "That's up to you." He caved.

I have an eighty YO friend who, a few years ago, wanted to buy a new Toyota. I coached her for a couple of hours on absent-authority negotiating and she did a great job on the car price. When she sat down with the F&I guy she crossed out the doc fee (as coached), looked the guy in the eye, and said "My husband Frank told me not to pay this." What could he do? He caved. (At this point Frank was so Alzheimery that he didn't even know my friend's name, but he served well that day as the absent authority for both price and doc fee negotiations.) I was really proud of her.
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Old 07-02-2017, 12:34 PM   #23
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For a 2017 model, I'd say the best time to buy would be some time in 2019.
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Old 07-02-2017, 02:07 PM   #24
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For a 2017 model, I'd say the best time to buy would be some time in 2019.
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Old 07-02-2017, 03:17 PM   #25
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The best time now is when the new 2018's are about to arrive or shortly thereafter obviously. But how much 2017 inventory they have and exactly when is make/model dependent. That varies nowadays by make and model, it's not as predictable as it used to be.
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Old 07-02-2017, 05:31 PM   #26
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9. We're considering ordering a new Toyota. The Toyota dealers in our state acquire vehicles through Southeast Toyota Distributors--and their wholesale price is substantially higher than dealers to the north (of us) that get their vehicles directly from Toyota. Southeast also adds undercoating, paint sealant and other rip off items at the Jacksonville port--prior to delivering them to their dealers. Gulf States along the Gulf of Mexico is another Toyota distributor that does the same thing. Needless to say, I'll drive an hour to save big bucks and do business with a non-chain dealership buying cars cheaper.
Thanks for the informative post. Regarding point #9, how would the layman find a good place to go for Toyota? I'm currently in North Texas.
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Old 07-02-2017, 05:42 PM   #27
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Thanks for the informative post. Regarding point #9, how would the layman find a good place to go for Toyota? I'm currently in North Texas.
New Mexico or Colorado is your best bet - or north of Oklahoma.

I'd never buy a new Toyota from the GST cartel dealers as they have a monopoly in Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Texas.
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Old 07-02-2017, 07:12 PM   #28
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If you're going to travel out of town to buy, t'd be nice to find a dealership willing to deal in a city that's a cheap budget airline flight away. Then deal online.

But there are relatively few "big city' Toyota dealerships that are not chain store affiliated. I'm looking for that "home owned" dealership in a medium size city, and luckily I've found one in the city where my wife goes to the doctor an hour north.

I just hope they do business the way I do business--by putting the dealer invoice on the desk. I don't want any extras of any kind, and I don't expect anything for free--like lifetime warranties, etc.

Back in the "old days", dealers would advertise big in the large city newspapers. And the prices quoted were always right at cost. But now, it's seldom that you see anything advertised but leases.

I'm thinking about running over to the Lexus dealer tomorrow to drive a ES hybrid to see how they run before ordering a Camry hybrid with the same running gear. Oh, well, it'll all work out. It's a shame the Lexus' are twice the price of a Camry as I can get one at cost--since my sister owns the dealership.
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Old 07-03-2017, 01:58 AM   #29
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Great info guys/gals. Some really good points-I appreciate all the input. Please continue even if you are late to the party.....
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Old 07-03-2017, 04:31 AM   #30
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Wait 'til Dec. 31st about 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon. It's no joke. They really do better deals then.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:09 AM   #31
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Regarding models late in the year: if you plan to sell relatively quickly, better to buy cars done earlier in the year.

A car from dec. 2016 is one year old in jan. 2017. Silly, but it does have an effect.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:20 AM   #32
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On the flip side, remember that a car's model year determines in part the insurance premium you pay for Comp and Collision insurance. If you buy, for example, a 2017 car this September as the 2018 cars are coming out, you will pay a little less (about 4-5%) for your Comp and Collision coverage.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:30 AM   #33
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My guess best time for a 2017 buy would be October.

GM (for one) is stuffing dealership floor planning. By the end of September the "buy new" prospect will force the price points.

The decline in auto sales makes margins secondary to survival. Current drop in auto sales is the leader in the continuing fall off in all consumer spending. Possibly a harbinger of things to come.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:31 AM   #34
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We saved a couple grand buying at the end of the manufacturer's quarter last year. Bought off the lot and reduced inventory.

Also looked into buying former dealer loaners. Usually well equipped, with only a couple thousand miles on it, but several thousand cheaper than brandy new. While we didn't go that route, we explored it in depth. May only apply to luxury brands that offer such incentives, in our case BMW X1s.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:45 AM   #35
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I was reading some online news articles this a.m. about the move from sedans to roomier SUV's. Nissan is kicking some serious butt with their Rogue--#4 in sales right now after pickup trucks. Ford's Explorer is also seriously up in sales. Pickup truck sales are hanging in there, especially with high end models.

If someone's looking for a sedan, there should be a glut of them on retail lots because sales are down dramatically. It's going to take some serious sales incentives to get them moving.

The next 6 months in the new car market should be very interesting.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:53 AM   #36
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I was reading some online news articles this a.m. about the move from sedans to roomier SUV's.
We're one of those planning to move from a sedan to a small SUV. Ford Escape and the Honda CRV are on our radar.
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:03 PM   #37
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I once bought a former rental car. It was sold back to the carmaker then reconditioned and sold as a high quality used car, backed by the balance of the factory warranty. In my case, the car had relatively few miles for a former rental car, only about 10k, and had been first put on the road for only 7 months, pretty low for a rental. What I saved was the first year's depreciation, or about 1/3 of what a similar, new car would have cost. The car lasted me 15 years and gave me little trouble.
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Old 07-03-2017, 01:16 PM   #38
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We're one of those planning to move from a sedan to a small SUV. Ford Escape and the Honda CRV are on our radar.
If those are on your radar then you should consider Subaru Outback or Forrester.... both are very good values IMO... particularly if you need or want AWD.
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Old 07-03-2017, 03:27 PM   #39
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I have to get the Bill of sale for our last car. In addition to the $700 for nitrogen in the tires, there was I think $299 for the VIP CLUB. The small print said 10 % off collision work, 1(ONE) free oil change, 5 % off body work, that kind of junk. That was another no-go item. As far as the best way to deal, I got a USAA buying coupon from 4 dealerships. The dealer around here couldnt even touch the price. One of the coupon guys was a fake, he couldnt even come near the price he said. Here is a reprint from my old post about car buying.
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we got some kind of pricing from USAA they sent us 3 quotes, we prepicked all the options and they emailed us 3 dealers with 3 decent prices, one dealer in Manhattan swore he had the car, we go and bingo all lies we wasted 5 hours, the next dealer not on the list said he would lose money on the car if he sold it to us at the price, we went to the second dealer that emailed us and he had "sold" the car , before we drove to new jersey to see the last guy we cold walked into an old time dealership in a horrible part of town, we showed him the prices he said will you buy the car today?, we said yup, he located the car in Connecticut, 2 days later we got the car, . i called usaa car buying service and told them it was far from hassle free and the liars that said they had the car at that price, but in the end we saved far more on it then if we had to haggle.
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:17 PM   #40
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We're one of those planning to move from a sedan to a small SUV. Ford Escape and the Honda CRV are on our radar.
Both are great vehicles, and big, big sellers. Ford's throwing great incentives on the Escape right now. Ford dealers' basic dealership expenses are covered from profits off pickup trucks, and you'll just about always beat a Honda dealer's deal. Ford's 2.0 liter Ecoboost is quite a performer, too.

(My family once owned part of two different Honda dealerships.)
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