Top One Percent? Half a Percent? Tenth of a Percent?

The more money the better because money DOES buy happiness at least according to this study:

"...Relying on worldwide data from Gallup and other sources, Stevenson and Wolfers determine that the wealthier people are, the more satisfied they are with their lives, at least when you look at nationwide figures. They also find, contrary to what many economists believe, that there is not a point of wealth satiation beyond which happiness levels off..."

Forbes Welcome
 
Every time someone says "money can't buy happiness", I think to myself that it can't buy misery either.

Money gives you the freedom to do what you want to do and that makes me happy - :)
 
Having money means having resources, which while not directly linked to happiness provides peace of mind. And peace of mind is equally important as happiness in my book.


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Exactly. Comparing to others doesn't make my life better. I have more than enough. That is enough for me.

From one perspective I agree; you handle your circumstances regardless of what's happening around you.

However, from another angle, it seems a number of things are dependent on demographics and the percentages of population that get categorized into different income levels, namely government decisions on benefits, taxation, etc.
 
Plus..people LOVE to judge you when you own either (especially an airplane). They figure if you own an airplane (never mind that it cost me much less than a 2 year old Honda to acquire) that you have endless amounts of cash to throw around.

That was what I found out when I owned an airplane for two years. Free shuttle to their business from the airport based on the assumption that I was wealthy or high income. What they didn't know was that I was definitely not either and in fact at one time during that period I ate one hot dog for dinner instead of two so the package would last the rest of the week.

But I was single, my decisions affected only me, and I was thoroughly enjoying that airplane so to me at the time it was worth the sacrifices I made to have it.
 
But having resources does not exclude happiness either.

Sure, but if you are comfortable and have more than enough, is more going to make you significantly happier with your life? Maybe there are some on here that are not satisfied with what they have and want more and that would make them happier, but I'm well past that point.
 
No, my point is that money does not buy happiness.

I've actually heard of a study that indicated that money does buy happiness. I have to see if I can dig up that article. :)

Thinking back on a motivational theory I've come across over the years, there are core things people require (food, shelter, safety, etc) which can be bought with money but in the absence of would likely make people unhappy. But as you secure core needs, the motivating items are more difficult if not impossible to buy with money.
 
I know there are varying research results on income levels for happiness. Part of it may have to do with other factors like local cost of living as well as smart spending. Some people are going to be broke on $75K a year and still stressed about money and some happy as a clam.

Regardless of income, most studies I have read about find that excessive materialism does not bring happiness, and I can believe that. According to some researchers, one way to be happy is to simply want less. There are some interesting slides on the subject at this link:

This psychologist's impressive presentation shows how materialism is eroding our happiness

"The term "hedonic treadmill" describes the human tendency to get used to what we have, no matter how nice it is, and strive for more. Getting more, then, doesn't sustain our happiness levels."
 
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Sure, but if you are comfortable and have more than enough, is more going to make you significantly happier with your life? Maybe there are some on here that are not satisfied with what they have and want more and that would make them happier, but I'm well past that point.
Sure, but if you are comfortable and have more than enough, is more going to make you less happy with your life?

IMO it's a non-sequitur.

Having more doesn't mean you are going to be less happy.

Wanting more and not having it - now that seems likely to make someone less happy. But it has nothing to do with actually having more.
 
My thinking is that there are a lot of two comma people that post here and the difference between say $2m and $4m in liquid NW is not enough to make a significant difference in one's life style so - impact on NHL (Net Happiness Level - I'm liking this acronym business) is pretty small. There are no 3 comma posters at this site that I am aware of so the question shall remain unanswered - MAYBE a WHOLE lot mo' money does impact happiness but I just don't know.

Actually for myself when I think of the wonderful comfortable but fairly anonymous level of satisfaction that low level two comma LNW brings I wonder if I would trade that for the worries about kidnappings, security, a phalanx of lawyers and accountants, schedulers, butlers etc etc. Dunno, I like to go to my back deck and pee down the hill without wondering if a paparazzi is taking my picture with a mondo telephoto lens.
 
That's what I consider the level you need to really be rich. Servants. Live in servants. Three minimum, a butler, a maid and a cook.
 
Sure, but if you are comfortable and have more than enough, is more going to make you less happy with your life?

Giving more % wise to uncle sam would certainly make me unhappy, but if it went to other good causes possibly not. And possibly it might also make me less appreciative to life's simple and free pleasures.
 
That's what I consider the level you need to really be rich. Servants. Live in servants. Three minimum, a butler, a maid and a cook.
Well, you know, since I've lived in third world countries I can tell you that t standard is not that hard to meet, in fact you can add a driver too since the traffic in those places is usually hellish...

Now, that standard in a first world country - now you're talking...
 
I got out of the military in 1983 and got a job a Hughs Aircraft. Worked typically 60+ hours a week, which seemed normal to me. Got married in 1991 to a similar lady who worked at 3M. We made good money, owned a home, and were fairly frugal in most of our life choices. Risked it all in 1993 and built an oceanfront inn in the bay area. Ran it for 16 years and sold last year. We are now worth $8.25 M, so I guess we are near the 1% mark. I'm 59 and my wife is 62. I drive a 1992 Honda Accord and my wife drives a 2003 Lexus. We are trying to be less frugal, but its a struggle :) (we do take nice vacations though)
 
You have mentioned some of the things you feel you are lucky to afford, like multiple homes and trips. But what do you LIKE about your expenditures, other than being able to afford them? Does one or more of your homes have a terrific swimming pool, surfside view, easy access to the many shops and restaurants of a major city, ballroom for inviting hundreds of friends to a dance with live music, or what? Did you especially enjoy seeing the Parthenon or the Mexican pyramids or the black sand beaches of the Big Island? I get the sense that you just like *having* money but that really you aren't finding much satisfaction in spending it. I hope that is not the case.

Thanks for your concern. I think you might be mistaking a tendency on my part to describe our lifestyle in somewhat antiseptic of impersonal terms with my desire not be seen to be bragging or being smug. I assure you I enjoy our lifestyle very much. I hope no one takes this post as bragging, certainly not my intention, but I felt I should respond to your post.

Never been to any of the places you mentioned but have been to lots of others. Our trips since retirement have generally been of the active type. Just got back from an excellent biking trip to Umbria, Italy. Great biking, great food and wine, great friends. Other trips have included friends and family on cruises, Europe, Turkey, Southeast Asia, etc. I really enjoy our travels and they tend to be expensive. Have another biking trip to Bavaria and Austria planned for September with a group of friends we met in Arizona.

Our homes are indeed enjoyable. The Arizona house has a very nice pool and gardens. This place is our winter respite from the harsh Canadian winters. Have met new friends and enjoy the excellent restaurants. Our house near Banff offers world class scenery, biking (both types), hiking, skiing ( also both types). I sit on a not for profit board there and have met some wonderful people. Our Lakehouse is our place to get some quiet solitude in a natural setting. Great boating, water sports, fires in the big stone fireplace in winter. We use this a lot for entertaining our family who are still mostly based in Ontario. Lots of fun there. Finally, our Toronto condo is right downtown and walking distance to both major sporting venues, opera house, live theatres, and at least 100 restaurants. Don't spend too much time there. Mostly when we visit our parents who live in Toronto, but when we are there it has an eclectic urban vibe which we enjoy. It also serves as a staging point for visits to the Lakehouse. We often loan our places to friends and family. None of our places would accommodate 100's of guests as you suggest. Wouldn't be our style anyway.

As I said, I am really enjoying our retirement lifestyle. Not suggesting for a moment, that others would or should. We have built this lifestyle over several years since retiring, and although we currently are having a ton of fun, I can certainly see how we will need to simplify at some point. Hopefully we will still be having a lot of fun whatever we do.

I can also see that retirees can have just as much fun for a lot less money. After all fun and happiness are very personal things. But I reject the idea that having more money somehow makes it less likely you will be happy. Certainly money that has come from a lifetime of working when used to generously fund a retirement can help make someone happy and secure. I also reject the idea, sometimes discussed here,that there is a universal "sweet spot" of wealth. Each person decides on their own "sweet spot" which can be quite different from others. Not surprisingly these so called "sweet spots" tend to be around that person's actual wealth.

Again, I apologize if this post seems smug or bragging. I also hope it doesn't sound defensive.
 
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From some of the advice & feedback I have read on this forum, it sounds like a couple needs to be in the top 5% to retire early and have enough money to protect themselves from health insurance, healthcare, and long term care inflation. I know there are many people on this forum who are budgeting $20,000-$30,000/year for health insurance & healthcare. Those numbers plus a 3% ER withdrawal rate adds up to nearly a million on its own. Reading the MMM, website, I thought $1.25 million plus a little bit of rental income would be enough for us to retire on. From the feedback I have been given & read on ther posts, I think we need closer to $1.5 million in savings + 2 houses paid off (main + rental) + a dinky pension in 19 years + a part time job for several years. Is every early retiree couple ages 45-60 shooting to be in the top 5% or close to it? I hope this does not sound negative as I am really curious what others think.
 
Hey, I got to see the black sand beach in the Big Island many years ago, when I did not even get to 2-comma status. Now, that I am there, I want to be in the 99% level ($9M net worth). It's not to get bigger houses, or any stinkin' fancy car. It's so that I can pay for business class airfare.
 
We have it made! Could we live on less money? Yes! Could we use a bit more money? Sure.

Do we need another million? No! Could we give up a million and be just as happy? I doubt it.

Could we use a little more sunshine? Yup we are in Amsterdam and it is cloudy and cool. Sadly more money cannot fix that problem...
 
Hey, I got to see the black sand beach in the Big Island many years ago, when I did not even get to 2-comma status. Now, that I am there, I want to be in the 99% level ($9M net worth). It's not to get bigger houses, or any stinkin' fancy car. It's so that I can pay for business class airfare.

LOL! Happiness is being able to routinely afford business class airfare?

Could be. Could be!!

Especially to get to the point where you don't think much about what else you could spend that money on instead.

I know people who charter private visit planes to wherever they want to go. I don't feel sorry for them. I don't feel sorry for me either, even though that option will always be out of my reach. Happy people adjust to whatever their circumstances are, and make the most of what they have according to their personal goals and values.
 
We have it made! Could we live on less money? Yes! Could we use a bit more money? Sure.

Do we need another million? No! Could we give up a million and be just as happy? I doubt it.

Could we use a little more sunshine? Yup we are in Amsterdam and it is cloudy and cool. Sadly more money cannot fix that problem...

One of my favorite places! Yes, it's a bit like Seattle at times. Well, most of the time.

Just think of us sweltering in South Texas! I wouldn't mind a spell of cloudy and cool right now. And you'd probably find me heading to the Flemish Bakery in Jourdaan.
 
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We have it made! Could we live on less money? Yes! Could we use a bit more money? Sure.

Do we need another million? No! Could we give up a million and be just as happy? I doubt it.
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Well said. Agree with your sentiment.

I used to travel to Amsterdam regularly for business. Can often be cold and rainy. We were there once for Queen's Day (late April). What a zoo. Everybody gets into a boat and jams the canals downtown drinking themselves silly. Party runs all night.
 
LOL! Happiness is being able to routinely afford business class airfare?

Could be. Could be!!

Especially to get to the point where you don't think much about what else you could spend that money on instead.

Agree. This could certainly be viewed as a significant milestone for many people. A similar milestone for me was being able to stay in better more expensive hotels while on personal vacation as opposed to what I would charge to my employer while on business. This reversal of mindset seemed significant to me at the time.
 
Reminds me of my two happiest days with a boat, day I bought it and day I sold it:LOL:


I've amended that cliche to suit my own personal needs.

"The day I bought it, and the day it started"
 
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