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03-17-2012, 05:12 AM
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#21
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Green Valley
Posts: 245
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I recently moved over to TDameritrade/TOS from Fidelity, boy what a difference. The charting, execution platforms, resources (especially Swim Lessons and Shadow Trader) are fantastic. Didn't realize how much I was missing.
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03-17-2012, 06:22 AM
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#22
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward
... plus the bid-ask spread.
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Irrelevant.
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03-17-2012, 07:49 AM
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#23
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njhowie
Irrelevant.
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Interesting. Would love to hear why.
Insignificant? Maybe for highly liquid securities which may have a 1-2 cent spread. Irrelevant? Unless the spread is zero, I don't think so.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-17-2012, 09:01 AM
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#24
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,931
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Commissions, taxes, inflation are things that will eat away at your gains. You have to account for these as part of your trading. The bid-ask spread is not a cost of trading - it is what someone is willing to buy or sell the security for.
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03-17-2012, 09:09 AM
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#25
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 241
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Welcome T bone. Would love to know how you decided on that name.
I'm not an active trader at all, but I do watch my stocks and funds and make adjustments more frequently than annually....I try to look for the opportunities that present themselves. Have 1.2 M that I watch over carefully, another 100K that I watch for my son. If you have a system, and you are willing to spend the time like Farmer Ed, why not? Agree that the current volatile market presents opportunity.
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03-17-2012, 12:41 PM
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#26
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
Interesting. Would love to hear why.
Insignificant? Maybe for highly liquid securities which may have a 1-2 cent spread. Irrelevant? Unless the spread is zero, I don't think so.
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I have sold at the ask price and bought at the bid price plenty of times, when the prices have been stable enough to actually tell. A simple limit order at the appropriate price allows you to wait for buyers or sellers to come to you.
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03-17-2012, 03:11 PM
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#27
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,186
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Since retiring in 2006, I've limited my trading activities to 5% of my FIRE portfolio. Based on a level of success I'm OK with, I increased this to 10% beginning in 2012, although I'm not at that level yet.
Nothing complicated and, in hindsight, nothing excessively risky. Buy low, sell high. Typical holding period is a few days to a few months averaging maybe 2 weeks. Some use of options, but not much. I've sold a few covered calls, but not recently.
Success seems to come in spurts. Patience is key. Right now I'm not holding anything. Prices are up and we travel quite a bit in the summer and I don't like to have anything going on that requires daily monitoring while we're on the road.
It's very entertaining and educational but not really a big money maker vs my biggest buy and hold holding, Vanguard TSM.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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03-17-2012, 06:35 PM
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#28
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDJO
Welcome T bone. Would love to know how you decided on that name.
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It's the avatar name under which Warren Buffett plays online bridge.
Or so he says. I've never actually checked to see whether it's a joke or a fact.
__________________
*
Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
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03-18-2012, 06:30 AM
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#29
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: the City of Subdued Excitement
Posts: 5,588
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Bon chance, mon ami.
__________________
I have outlived most of the people I don't like and I am working on the rest.
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03-18-2012, 07:35 AM
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#30
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,288
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I actively trade about 15% of my portfolio. Almost entirely with options but I do throw in the occasional stock day trade. I love it and I've been pretty successful but I have to say that right about now when I'm doing my taxes its a giant pain in the arse. I have an options trading blog if anyone is interested in checking it out. I think it's OK to post a link to it here?
OptionsMan5
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03-18-2012, 08:36 AM
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#31
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Flagstaff
Posts: 30
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@utrecht your broker should give you the option to export to csv or excel. TDAmeritrade has the option to directly export the current year trades into HRB or Turbo Tax online. I'm thinking that most tax software going forward will have this option, especially since IRS regs are now requiring the broker to keep your basis information with each transaction (holdings from before the past couple of years aren't going to have the correct basis, but it should get there eventually)
__________________
If the above message contains any tax related matters, then the following applies:
IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: Tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is neither intended nor written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or to promote, market or recommend to anyone a transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
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03-18-2012, 08:42 AM
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#32
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,252
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Options are funny. They are not reported on a 1099B -- at least they were not when I traded options.
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03-18-2012, 08:43 AM
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#33
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njhowie
The bid-ask spread is not a cost of trading - it is what someone is willing to buy or sell the security for.
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So you and one other counterparty trade a stock back and fourth all day long through a broker commission free. The broker, who did nothing other than execute your trades in a completely riskless fashion ends the day with a tidy little pile of money. Where did it come from?
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
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03-18-2012, 09:16 AM
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#34
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Flagstaff
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL!
Options are funny. They are not reported on a 1099B -- at least they were not when I traded options.
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I had to look back at some old statements (currently trade options in my IRA so no 1099-B) and I can confirm that at least in 2001 and 2002 I had to use my statements, not the 1099-B, for my options transaction. Hmmm. Just did it, never even thought about it.
__________________
If the above message contains any tax related matters, then the following applies:
IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: Tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is neither intended nor written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or to promote, market or recommend to anyone a transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
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03-18-2012, 09:57 AM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone4Good
So you and one other counterparty trade a stock back and fourth all day long through a broker commission free. The broker, who did nothing other than execute your trades in a completely riskless fashion ends the day with a tidy little pile of money. Where did it come from?
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The money fairy.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
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03-18-2012, 11:00 AM
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#36
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,288
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Option trades still aren't reported to the IRS. I believe they are going to start reporting next year. How they've gone this long without reporting is beyond me. I could just not report any options transactions and the IRS would never know.
My broker does have an option to export the transactions to a spreadsheet and even the correct tax forms, but that doesn't really help me. I need Turbo Tax to be able to import all of the transactions. Maybe it does work with Turbo Tax somehow but I cant seem to get it to work as of yet. I use both E-Trade and Optionshouse. I was able to get the Optionshouse software to print out a schedule D and a form 8949 but again, that doesnt help me if its not imported into TurboTax with the rest of my tax info.
Another thing I cant fathom is that up until this year and next year, the brokers have never reported cost basis on stock trades to the IRS. All the IRS knows is how much you sold a stock for. You could make up whatever you wanted for the cost basis. I wonder how much tax money that has cost the US in the past 50 years?
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03-18-2012, 11:45 AM
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#37
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Flagstaff
Posts: 30
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I haven't had to think about this particular issue for myself since my assets are pretty much confined to my IRA. Does your tax software allow you to import your transactions in csv/text format? I know the pro software we use at the office will do so, but I haven't experimented with it much.
__________________
If the above message contains any tax related matters, then the following applies:
IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: Tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is neither intended nor written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or to promote, market or recommend to anyone a transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
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03-18-2012, 02:05 PM
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#38
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfleming
I haven't had to think about this particular issue for myself since my assets are pretty much confined to my IRA. Does your tax software allow you to import your transactions in csv/text format? I know the pro software we use at the office will do so, but I haven't experimented with it much.
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Not that I know of. It will allow me to access financial institution (or broker) and supposedly download the transactions automatically but it didn't work when I tried it. It said my username or password was wrong. I'll probably try harder next year to get it to work.
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03-18-2012, 02:29 PM
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#39
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 851
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Turbotax definitely lets you import stock trades (at least from some brokers,like schwab and fidelity), even figures out all the gains and losses for you...I wouldn't still be day trading (in my after tax account), if I couldn't do this automatically...
Last time I got a 1099 on paper, it was about 3 inches thick...and I used to key it all by hand, but haven't had to do that in almost 10 years thanks to TT. Now I do my taxes every year in about 2 hours total.
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03-18-2012, 03:36 PM
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#40
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht
Not that I know of. It will allow me to access financial institution (or broker) and supposedly download the transactions automatically but it didn't work when I tried it. It said my username or password was wrong. I'll probably try harder next year to get it to work.
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One must make sure they enter the proper rendition of their broker. For example, it ain't "Wells Fargo", it is "Wells Fargo Advisors" this year.
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