Treasury Bills, Notes, and Bonds Discussion
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audreyh1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Someone was interested in the 17-week t-bill auction but had the wrong auction date.
Are the rates on these T-BILL auctions forward looking? That is, do they set the rate independently of the fed funds rate and are already pricing in the expected 75bp November increase, or will that bump come in the auctions right after the increase?
Assuming that these T-BILLs are exempt from state income tax, does turbo tax have you enter the interest as from T-BILL and handle the state tax form adjustment automatica!ly?
Sorry for the newbie question. Just bought my first T-BILL today.
Sorry for the newbie question. Just bought my first T-BILL today.
audreyh1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
At auction they are generally fairly close to what t-bills of similar duration are trading on the secondary market, so I suppose they are just as forward looking as the secondary treasury market is.
aja8888
Moderator Emeritus
copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Thank you, I would have been off by a day!
Sunset
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Yes, but I basically have to track the CUSIP and the auction date to know which one is the one I bought.
It's also kind of disappointing to me, that I might be buying the leftovers of previous auctions from months ago.
ShokWaveRider
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Schwab seems to have only 2 very short-term New Issue treasuries available at this time. does that sound right? Sorry, still learning about buying Treasuries on Schwab.
The rates on T-bills are independent of the Fed funds rate. The market sets the rate, not the Fed. There is debate whether the market anticipates the Fed or whether the Fed follows the market. My view is that both happen to varying degrees over time.
audreyh1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
The time between announcements and auction is just a few days. 4-week and 8-week t-bills are announced on Tuesday and auctioned on Thursday. 13-week and 26-week t-bills are announced on Thursday and auctioned on Monday so you won’t see those listed until later on Thursday. The 52-week t-bill is auctioned every 4 weeks. There is a new 17-week t-bill that is announced on Tuesday and auctioned on Wednesday. That might show up later today.
Upcoming auctions are listed here: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/auctions/upcoming/
Overall schedule here: https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/221/TentativeAuctionScheduleQ32022.pdf
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Dash man
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TT will ask if you have any income from Treasuries. I forget exactly where it is in the process, but there is a box you can check when adding interest income. I don’t know if it automatically is checked when data is imported, but you can manually update if needed.
When the data is entered from Form 1099-INT/OID Box 3 is specifically for "Interest on U.S. Savings Bonds and Treasury Obligations." If there is something other than $0 there, it should be treated properly for state tax purposes.
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copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Yes, but I basically have to track the CUSIP and the auction date to know which one is the one I bought.
It's also kind of disappointing to me, that I might be buying the leftovers of previous auctions from months ago.
No, you thinking about this the wrong way.
Let's say they do a 1 year T-Bill auction.
Six months later, that 1 year T-Bill has 26 weeks left.
So they reopen the auction using the same CUSIP with what now remains as a 26 week term.
This isn't leftovers, it is new $ to the US Treasury.
Regarding tracking, that is what financial sites like Schwab or your own Spreadsheet is for.
If you want, I could provide one that let's you enter the cusip, auction date, settlement date, maturity, discount and it will track your days till maturity and weighted days to maturity, yield, annual income, etc.
copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
912796Y60 (17-week T-BILL) is available for order entry on Schwab and Fidelity, but for some reason not (yet) available on Ameritrade. (Which of course was where I was going to buy it. Bond desk is a 30-minute wait. Ugh.)
Plan B: Buy on Schwab, xfer money there to do so.
Plan B: Buy on Schwab, xfer money there to do so.
aja8888
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks for reminding me of the auction. I just placed an order for it.
copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
And it has disappeared (as of about 3:30PM) from Schwab. Still shows on Fidelity (where I do not have enough cash to buy it).
That's the trouble with w*rking, I can't always do thing exactly when I want to. (I had a class to go teach so wasn't able to do the order at 1:50PM).
Schwab is currently "researching" the issue.
ETA: I've now had a couple more call backs from Schwab. They are stating that they aren't participating in the 17-week auctions, that they are Cash Management Bonds and are only available to institutions ($1 million min.). When pressed (by me) they admitted that this was not a Treasury restriction, rather what Schwab was choosing to do. They also said had I did the order, it would have been cancelled. I still have a small order in at Fidelity (that I did as a test when it disappeared from Schwab. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of cash there (at FIDO) and I'm not willing to wire it just to deal with this.
So, I guess it would be useful to know what brokerages people are using (successfully) to buy the 17-week paper. (I would like to buy some as it fills holes in my short term ladder.)
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I wasn't sure why I would want a 17 week compared to the 13 and 26. So I just ordered $10k so I can hang with the cool kids.
I think I will DCA into the 13 and 26 for my primary allocation. I bought my first ones yesterday.
I think I will DCA into the 13 and 26 for my primary allocation. I bought my first ones yesterday.
I had planned to buy on Ameritrade...no luck. I called the Bond desk and the tech didn't know anything about the 17-week T-bill option.
I have not had any troubles with my TDA IRA but after trading at both FIDO and TDA I now realize that FIDO has a much better front end. Much easier to find things in the Fixed income domain.
I have invested all of my available cash in the FIDO account so I will just keep using the 13 and 26 week at TDA.
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aja8888
Moderator Emeritus
And it has disappeared (as of about 3:30PM) from Schwab. Still shows on Fidelity (where I do not have enough cash to buy it).
That's the trouble with w*rking, I can't always do thing exactly when I want to. (I had a class to go teach so wasn't able to do the order at 1:50PM).
Schwab is currently "researching" the issue.
ETA: I've now had a couple more call backs from Schwab. They are stating that they aren't participating in the 17-week auctions, that they are Cash Management Bonds and are only available to institutions ($1 million min.). When pressed (by me) they admitted that this was not a Treasury restriction, rather what Schwab was choosing to do. They also said had I did the order, it would have been cancelled. I still have a small order in at Fidelity (that I did as a test when it disappeared from Schwab. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of cash there (at FIDO) and I'm not willing to wire it just to deal with this.
So, I guess it would be useful to know what brokerages people are using (successfully) to buy the 17-week paper. (I would like to buy some as it fills holes in my short term ladder.)
I am on Schwab. I placed my order at 2:02 PM and it got accepted for $20K. I just checked and they cancelled it at 2:40 PM. Ba***rds!
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Sunset
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Vanguard had the 17wk ones to order.
Anybody check to see if the order remained ? I can't check as I didn't buy one, DW did but she is out right now.
Anybody check to see if the order remained ? I can't check as I didn't buy one, DW did but she is out right now.
audreyh1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
And it has disappeared (as of about 3:30PM) from Schwab. Still shows on Fidelity (where I do not have enough cash to buy it).
That's the trouble with w*rking, I can't always do thing exactly when I want to. (I had a class to go teach so wasn't able to do the order at 1:50PM).
Schwab is currently "researching" the issue.
Huh? Weird!
Generally you can order t-bills to be auctioned after hours and pre-market no problem. So there must be some issue with availability for this first one.
Or maybe not. Looks like these are still available to order at Fidelity so I have no idea what is going on at Schwab.
Treasury is offering $33B for tomorrow’s auction compared to $65B and $55B for the 4-week and 8-week t-bills auctioned next Thursday.
OK, I guess that explains it. It would have been nice to figure this out before showing availability to their customers.
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ShokWaveRider
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
When you buy or order Treasuries at auction with Schwab, does one have to have money in their cash account first? Or can one sell a MM and buy treasuries simultaneously?
aja8888
Moderator Emeritus
I just spoke with Schwab and the 17 week bond is only for institutions. How nice. If that's the case, don't allow us to place an order. He said they were getting all kinds of calls on this cancelled order.
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