Tropical Tree farms as an investment

Well, I have been doing my research - and incidentally on this particular company. *The couple that runs it are originally from the US. *He was a lawyer and RE guy. *That made me nervous from the get go. *But they are certified by the only organization that does it (I can't access all my researchh right now but it is multi national....NFS or something like that), saying they are growing eco-correct trees. *Their son has also started a design company for using tropical hardwoods called Raleo Designs. *I believe raleo means a type of pruning in spanish. *This company, & Raleo, *keeps listing a Miami PO Box & I couldn't find anything out about them being registered as a business in the US. *Tons in Costa Rica. *Raleo did win an award this year for their designs of various wall templates using tropical wood. *Very pretty as well. *raleo also uses younger wood, and all from the folks farm, thus trying to increase the market for the younger harvests. *The only things I have not been able to figure out is how to use my self directed Roth IRA to invest. *I want to make sure it will still be recognized as part of my IRA and not looked at as a withdrawal. *But there are alo of tree plantaions out there. *One in Hawaii is called Kauai, if you want to stay in the US. *Just my two cents, but I'm going to do it even if it won't stay in my IRA. I like that you have a choice of which trees you want to plant. *And I will visit!

[thefed]

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but:

buy 40 acres and plant a bunch of BLACK WALNUT trees. Harvest the nuts then the wood. Look into how much it's worth (and how much they cost to raise!). it peaked my interest a few yrs back

Anyone ever look into black walnuts?

[Danny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefed Sorry to revive such an old thread, but: buy 40 acres and plant a bunch of BLACK WALNUT trees. Harvest the nuts then the wood. Look into how much it's worth (and how much they cost to raise!). it peaked my interest a few yrs back Anyone ever look into black walnuts?

Well fed,
I'm wondering how long a walnut tree takes to grow big enough to produce a crop. ?

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanTien Well fed, I'm wondering how long a walnut tree takes to grow big enough to produce a crop.* ?

It depends on whether you use the same fertilizer as that picture of the guy with the "cactus"...

[thefed]

From what I recall, it was about 40-50 years...but the return on 250k i think was about 2-3 million. The initial outlay was not 250k, but I think that was the total outlay. I cant remember

[Brat]

Contact the ag extension folks at your state college. They can tell you about the local conditions and pests/diseases. They are in the business of forestry/agriculture.

[wildcat]

Tough to say thefed. *Depends on the timing of the cash flows if it actually produces + *** over the 40-50 years. *I don't know if the walnuts will cover property taxes and other yearly expenses so the CF could be negative. *Even if you dish out 250K (I know you mentioned 250K total but spread out) in time 0, pay nothing out over the entire period and collect the 2-3 mil in 40-50 years we are talking about 5-6.5% in nominal returns. *Not overly impressive if you ask me but it could be a good diversifier if that is really what you seek. *Gonna have to factor in the "hassle" factor as well. *Nothing is as care free as it sounds. *If you are considering the project I would collect some solid, realistic numbers and apply the NPV equation in an Excel spreadsheet. *It could give you a rough idea of whether or not it would be worth it. *Just my .02 worth but I don't know a damn thing about timber mgt or black walnuts... * *

[haha]

If your stand ever matures, you pretty well have to live right there, as timber theft can be a big problem. Also, black walnuts have fairly limited geographic range. My grandparents’ farm in KY had quite a few. The nuts are incredibly tasty, and I believe very high in Omega3 fats. But are they ever a bear to crack! The shells are like concrete vaults. Other thing I remember is that by the time you get the husks off so the nuts in shell can dry, your hands are pretty well dyed yellow-brown -orange for the next few weeks. I sold them door to door in the shell to our city neighbors around Christmas time, as they are much prized in cookies etc.

Still, even if you didn't make any money to speak of, the trees are beautiful and your grand children should enjoy gathering the nuts. Your great grand-kids might even make some beautiful furniture from the timber, which I believe to be the most beautiful wood on earth.

Ha

[Danny]

Am I the only one here that thinks 40-50 years is a lonnnnggg time to wait for a payoff? Most of us would be fertilizer by then. What about using the $250k to buy an existing nut tree farm whereever that might be...I see people around the midwest that raise trees (Christmas, etc.) and harvest them. Seems like a lot of work.

You know what I would do if I had $250k, Peter? No, what would you do Lawrence? I would buy TGT and I guarantee that it will outpace the return of a walnut tree farm, and then with the dividends I would get 2 girlfriends.....

Good luck and do follow your dreams!

[wabmester]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanTien I would buy TGT and I guarantee that it will outpace the return of a walnut tree farm.

Wow, where do I get a guarantee like that? And why TGT? I read that "discount" stores recently crossed over and now have a bigger market share than non-discount stores. So, I would expect that to mean slower growth, continued skinny margins, and lots of risk if the Chinese revalue their currency again.

[Jarhead*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefed Sorry to revive such an old thread, but: buy 40 acres and plant a bunch of BLACK WALNUT trees. Harvest the nuts then the wood. Look into how much it's worth (and how much they cost to raise!). it peaked my interest a few yrs back Anyone ever look into black walnuts?

If you want to grow something and not wait for years and years to be productive, go to Humbolt County on the No. Calif. Coast, and be a small time "pot" grower.

Those little towns would whither and die without the cash infusion that "growers" make.
The DEA and local businesses know this, and mostly look the other way.

The sentences are light, and what the hell, room and board for a while.

Just an idea.

[thefed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-Jarhead If you want to grow something and not wait for years and years to be productive, go to Humbolt County on the No. Calif. Coast, and be a small time "pot" grower. Those little towns would whither and die without the cash infusion that "growers" make. The DEA and local businesses know this, and mostly look the other way. The sentences are light, and what the hell, room and board for a while. Just an idea.

i know firsthand that it can be profitable. ie 60k/yr in a 12x12 room. sounds SOOOOOOOO enticing, but i already had a little problem in that area.

and your right, the penalties are not stiff. so if you've got a clean record, try it. You'd probably like it...

[Danny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab Wow, where do I get a guarantee like that? And why TGT? I read that "discount" stores recently crossed over and now have a bigger market share than non-discount stores. So, I would expect that to mean slower growth, continued skinny margins, and lots of risk if the Chinese revalue their currency again.

Check back with me on Dec 31, 2010.
If TGT stock's value of 5,000 shares (Oct 29 - $54.50) = $272,500 hasn't at least doubled(including accumulated divs and accounting for stock splits), then I guarantee to pay you the amount of the difference in value of that holding below $545,000.
But in return you have to promise to pay me the amount of the difference in value of that holding that exceeds $545,000. Deal? 8)

[wabmester]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanTien Check back with me on Dec 31, 2010. If TGT stock's value of 5,000 shares (Oct 29 - $54.50) = $272,500 hasn't doubled(including accumulated divs and accounting for stock splits), then I guarantee to pay you the amount of the difference in value of that holding below $545,000. But in return you have to promise to pay me the amount of the difference in value of that holding that exceeds $545,000. Deal?* 8)

Sorry, I only take sure bets.* *So, tell you what I'm going to do.* *I will take that bet if we can change the strike price to $80, exclude dividends, change the expiration date to Jan 2007, and you give me $2000 so I can buy the call options.*

Oh, and did I mention my Boycott Target campaign that involves having naked homeless people picket in front of the stores?

Seriously, I'm tempted to take the bet on your terms.* *TGT would have to return 15%/year for you to win.* *Given that they already have a high P/E for a low-margin retailer, your odds don't look too good to me.* * What makes you like TGT so much?

Edit: D'oh! I just realized this is a sure bet for me. OK, let's have Martha write up the contract.

[Danny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab Sorry, I only take sure bets. So, tell you what I'm going to do. I will take that bet if we can change the strike price to $80, exclude dividends, change the expiration date to Jan 2007, and you give me $2000 so I can buy the call options. Oh, and did I mention my Boycott Target campaign that involves having naked homeless people picket in front of the stores? Seriously, I'm tempted to take the bet on your terms. TGT would have to return 15%/year for you to win. Given that they already have a high P/E for a low-margin retailer, your odds don't look too good to me. What makes you like TGT so much?

I am familiar with management, their strategy, philosophy and long term plan...

Wab - Edit: D'oh! I just realized this is a sure bet for me.
How so?

[wabmester]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanTien I am familiar with management, their strategy, philosophy and long term plan...

Hmm, your name isn't Gerald Storch, is it?*

In any case, I'd still like to take your bet.* *Even their CEO can't guarantee 15%/year growth.* *Lots of things are outside the control of insiders, like competition, finicky consumer trends, third-party costs, the economy, and how the stock market will value your growth.

Quote:

How so? [regarding sure bet]

All I would need to do is buy 5000 shares of TGT, and you just guaranteed me a risk-free return of 15%/year.* *I would happily give up any upside beyond that to you in exchange for that guaranteed rate of return.

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefed Sorry to revive such an old thread, but: buy 40 acres and plant a bunch of BLACK WALNUT trees. Harvest the nuts then the wood. Look into how much it's worth (and how much they cost to raise!). it peaked my interest a few yrs back Anyone ever look into black walnuts?

I don't think this will work in most of the Sonoran Desert where I live. But I have thought about planting Saguaro cactus. Landscapers charge over $100 per linear foot of cactus. It may take 50 years or more, but you could end up with a lot of value for almost no investment.

[Danny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab Hmm, your name isn't George Storch, is it? In any case, I'd still like to take your bet. Even their CEO can't guarantee 15%/year growth. Lots of things are outside the control of insiders, like competition, finicky consumer trends, third-party costs, the economy, and how the stock market will value your growth. All I would need to do is buy 5000 shares of TGT, and you just guaranteed me a risk-free return of 15%. I would happily give up any upside beyond that to you in exchange for that guaranteed rate of return.

No, my name isn't George or Gerry.
Are you going to buy 5,000 shares and hold them for over 5 years wab?

[wabmester]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanTien Are you going to buy 5,000 shares and hold them for over 5 years wab?*

Yes. As soon as we get the paperwork back from Martha.

[Danny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab Yes. As soon as we get the paperwork back from Martha.

As you may recall, I never mentioned lawyers, what's wrong with you? Don't you trust me?
You buy the 5000 shares Monday. We do this without lawyers, just our word as gentlemen. You get to benefit from all my research and knowledge and increase your net worth and you then on Dec 31, 2010 are prepared to show you owned the shares throughout the period. Then let the reckoning of who owes what to who happen
Now, I've been more than helpful to you what are going to do in return?