Turning 50 in a month, I know what you are going to say..

[anothercog]

Another benefit of moving to a lower cost area (and dropping the country club) would be that people tend to compare themselves to their peers. For many, maybe most people, it is harder to feel satisfied when surrounded by relatively wealthier people, even if one is relatively wealth compared to 99% of the country.

"If income effects are entirely relative.....Rather than promoting overall happiness, continued income growth could promote an ongoing consumption race where individuals consume more and more just to maintain a constant level of happiness."

Money Can Buy You Happiness But Only Relative to Your Peer's Income - https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-08/asa-mcb080805.php

Agree with this. Consider moving to less affluent area of CT where it won't cost as much to keep up with the Joneses. Maybe Suffield? Good schools, rural, definitely less expensive than Fairfield. You still won't be too far from family but you'll have more money than you'll know what to do with.

 

[Whisper66]

.......So drum roll, can I retire? Firecalc saying 3.5% WR is 100% living to 87 not including downsizing etc.??......

You've done well for yourself and your family. Of course you can retire if you wish. Just recheck where you are each year and adjust expenses if needed.... I suspect you won't need to but I certainly wouldn't continue working with your assets and huge amount of discretionary expenses that could be trimmed a bit if needed.

 

[Koolau]

I look at that as affordable but easy to trim if it’s necessary. It’s a high annual cost, but if you use it, not that different from many travel budgets I’ve seen here.

This was my first thought as well. With higher expenses come higher potential for relatively painless cuts. I call this my "back-up-plan" thinking. Though my expenses are significantly less than yours, they are WAY more than I would have dreamed back in the day. BUT I can almost cut my spend in half if I need to (primarily gifting to kids and charities) so my actual "life style" wouldn't change a lot even though cash-burn would drop dramatically. As long as you and DW are on the same page with any such cutting eventuality, I think you are golden but YMMV.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I have posted this before, so skip this if you've read it. But a big light bulb moment for us was realizing that cutting expenses had much more of an impact than saving even $100K more a year. Like if you can figure out how to live a $100K life on $50K, over a 40 year retirement that is $2M less in after tax dollars you need to retire, or $200K on $100K, that is $4M less needed.

In the OPs case cutting expenses from $300K to $150K, that is $6M less in after tax retirement dollars needed. I am not as familiar with prices in other states, but in California the OP could easily afford to pay cash for a home and pay real estate and income taxes even in most pricey cities in California with good public schools. For college they kids would have public university choices like U.C. Berkeley or UCLA with reasonable in state tuition, and many well ranked but less famous public schools.

 

[Golden sunsets]

I have been planning FIRE at 50 for a while and I have never felt comfortable with WR more that 3%. Just my 2 cents. RE at 50 has a long road ahead and hence I feel the need to be little more conservative.

Stuck; I have to agree with pjigar on the WR. I'd hold it at 3% and I would plan to 95, not 87.

But I've followed you for years as you've struggled with this final decision. (think your ME move quandry). I think you're pretty conservative and have off ramps that you could deploy. So you "stuck" it out long enough I think, and can do whatever you like.

 

[DawgMan]

First, don't let anyone shame you for your desired spend... you earned it, your choice. I have a similar spend which has significant discretionary options (i.e. more travel, gifting, home improvements, toys), but don't (currently) have the extra house, CC dues (this may change, who knows). I ran similar models starting at 50, then chose 55 strategically as that was when my last kid of 4 was out of college/employed. My business has been too good/lucrative so I have stuck around working around 10 hours a week, but making very good $$ at a job I don't dislike. None the less, I will start to pull from assets in 2022 (age 57), no pension, just my investments. This slow downshift has been good for me transitioning and has allowed me to run up the score (low 8 figures in investment assets, no debt) without affecting my freedom to do what I want. Do you hate your line of work? If not, I might recommend you wait longer until your kids are older as you will have more expenses than you think (i.e. cars, insurance, "problems that may require, um, fixing with $$") as this may help you angst. As others have said, you can cut back on some of your goodies... but do you want to? Part of the reason I chose to run up the score is I wanted the options to have more goodies... if I so decided. Be honest with yourself. If you want to keep the goodies, I suggest you keep adding to your stash and work a little longer. If not, as others have said, sort thru your Needs/Wants/Wishes and determine what levers you will pull as needed to keep the boat sailing forward.

First world problems, but nothing to apologize for.

 

[Koolau]

Stuck; I have to agree with pjigar on the WR. I'd hold it at 3% and I would plan to 95, not 87.

Yeah, I kept on planning for the NEXT 30 years - until that seemed a bit impractical. When I got to 100 as "expiration" date, things started looking even better WDR wise - not mortality wise but YMMV.

 

[MRG]

Enjoy.

 

[livingalmostlarge]

Retire! Pull the trigger and enjoy.

 

[socca]

... I still feel uncomfortable ...

Congrats on having it all - now you just need to hold onto it.

If you aren't comfortable with the SWR framework, consider adopting (at least in part) an approach based on actual income rather than virtual income. For example, if you can arrange for secure actual income that covers all of your necesssary expenses and still have a hefty chunk of your nest egg remaining to play with, then what is there left to worry about?

The devil, of course, is in the details. If DW and the DKs have become used to the "finer things in life", then they may not agree with your definition of 'necessary expenses'.

 

[pb4uski]

Stuckin CT, you have enough assets to do just about whatever you like. My spend is very close to yours and Ive learned to re-evaluate annually and make adjustments as needed. You can afford the CC and the schools and if the crap ever hits the fan you can cut back as needed. You have been on this site long enough to know you have allot of flexibility. My first FIRE was at 50 with only half your stash and I got hammered in the 08 recession. I went back to work again to right the ship and doubled the nest egg. Thats what we do if life throws you some lemons. But please rest easy that you have the $'s and the knowledge to weather the storms. You and I have spoken before and you're advise to me was to not let others throw shame at your spending. The advice
is back to you. Now go and enjoy that big 50! You earned it.

First, don't let anyone shame you for your desired spend... you earned it, your choice. I have a similar spend which has significant discretionary options (i.e. more travel, gifting, home improvements, toys), but don't (currently) have the extra house, CC dues (this may change, who knows). I ran similar models starting at 50, then chose 55 strategically as that was when my last kid of 4 was out of college/employed. My business has been too good/lucrative so I have stuck around working around 10 hours a week, but making very good $$ at a job I don't dislike. None the less, I will start to pull from assets in 2022 (age 57), no pension, just my investments. This slow downshift has been good for me transitioning and has allowed me to run up the score (low 8 figures in investment assets, no debt) without affecting my freedom to do what I want. Do you hate your line of work? If not, I might recommend you wait longer until your kids are older as you will have more expenses than you think (i.e. cars, insurance, "problems that may require, um, fixing with $$") as this may help you angst. As others have said, you can cut back on some of your goodies... but do you want to? Part of the reason I chose to run up the score is I wanted the options to have more goodies... if I so decided. Be honest with yourself. If you want to keep the goodies, I suggest you keep adding to your stash and work a little longer. If not, as others have said, sort thru your Needs/Wants/Wishes and determine what levers you will pull as needed to keep the boat sailing forward.

First world problems, but nothing to apologize for.

+1 Congratulations... you've earned it. Though with $300k spending there should be ample room for belt tightening if you have adverse investment results.

....Firecalc just barely 100% spending $290k...

I get 100%. $300k spending, $8.7m portfolio, 45 years, $42k for SS starting in 2041 and $21k her SS starting in 2038... all rest default values.

Also, I assume that your $300k of spending includes your mortgage payment? If so, you should exclude it from spending, include it in off-chart spending and then include an setting pension amount when the mortgage ends... in all cases not inflation adjusted. If you include your mortgage payment in spending then FIRECalc will inflate it forever and that is unduly conservative.

 

[SecondCor521]

I think I told you before what I thought. IIRC you had even less money back then, so I think the same thing, only more.

As someone sagely pointed out above, you're stuck in a prison of your own making because you want to have everything. Most people realize some time during their adult lives that they have to prioritize and let a few things fall off the bottom of the priority list.

For you it seems like you can pick any N-1 of the following N items:

FIRE
Two houses
Living in Connecticut
Country club

So you could just prioritize that list and whatever's on the bottom doesn't happen. Maybe you don't FIRE. Maybe you drop the CC membership. Maybe you sell a house. Maybe you move. Right now, by default, you're prioritizing FIRE last, which is fine, but it seems to be something you're wanting to have higher on the priority list. The question is, will you and your family be happy to trade off something else on the list?

I guess the only other constructive suggestion I have for you is to find a way for you to take a year off. Call it a sabbatical to everyone else, but in your own mind and maybe with your wife consider it a FIRE trial. If things are going well, extend it a year. Worst case you have to go back to work and have had a two year vacation.

 

[StuckinCT]

First, don't let anyone shame you for your desired spend... you earned it, your choice. I have a similar spend which has significant discretionary options (i.e. more travel, gifting, home improvements, toys), but don't (currently) have the extra house, CC dues (this may change, who knows). I ran similar models starting at 50, then chose 55 strategically as that was when my last kid of 4 was out of college/employed. My business has been too good/lucrative so I have stuck around working around 10 hours a week, but making very good $$ at a job I don't dislike. None the less, I will start to pull from assets in 2022 (age 57), no pension, just my investments. This slow downshift has been good for me transitioning and has allowed me to run up the score (low 8 figures in investment assets, no debt) without affecting my freedom to do what I want. Do you hate your line of work? If not, I might recommend you wait longer until your kids are older as you will have more expenses than you think (i.e. cars, insurance, "problems that may require, um, fixing with $$") as this may help you angst. As others have said, you can cut back on some of your goodies... but do you want to? Part of the reason I chose to run up the score is I wanted the options to have more goodies... if I so decided. Be honest with yourself. If you want to keep the goodies, I suggest you keep adding to your stash and work a little longer. If not, as others have said, sort thru your Needs/Wants/Wishes and determine what levers you will pull as needed to keep the boat sailing forward.

First world problems, but nothing to apologize for.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. $300k is our budget, and there is nothing really we want to cut, except maybe the CC club at some point. Also, some of the the $1.75mm (targeting $2.5mm in 8 years) we have for the kids is for cars, weddings, down payments and 5th year in college if that happens. We spend about $20k in activities now so I actually expect that to drop in HS with less camp, lessons etc.

We're not big spenders at all where we live. I get that we are prob in the second percentile but we feel upper middle class. For a long time the real estate market was so bad here we could not sell our home, hence the name StuckinCT. Now we can sell, but my wife and kids like our home so we are staying. Believe me, if I could snap my finger we would live in a more modest home- I would be happy in four bedroom updated center hall colonial, but to sell our place now seems stupid with $100k in transaction costs and then all the new expense of setting up a new house. We just bought a second house in Lake George with a boat and we are very excited about it, with the idea it will be a home up north to get out of the heat with a home down south when we downsize so that we can enjoy now.

I like the idea of downsizing at 62, but since that won't be happening anytime soon and houses in Mount Pleasant SC cost about $1mm for what we want, it is not like we would be lowering our expenses that much and the public schools here are like private schools. Our plan is to keep Lake George and dump the CT house for SC house at 62.

First world problems for sure, but I believe I need to save another $1.5-2mm to retire comfortably which will bring us to $14mm which is just crazy to me but those are the numbers, so I will need to find a new gig next year. Thanks for everyone's thoughts, I am close but no cigar IMHO and I really do enjoy my goodies, i.e. boat and vaca house to a lesser extent club- I am willing to keep working for it.

 

[ivinsfan]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. $300k is our budget, and there is nothing really we want to cut, except maybe the CC club at some point. Also, some of the the $1.75k we have for the kids is for cars, weddings, down payments and 5th year in college if that happens. We spend about $20k in activities now so I actually expect that to drop in HS with less camp, lessons etc.

We're not big spenders at all where we live. I get that we are prob in the second percentile but we feel upper middle class. For a long time the real estate market was so bad here we could not sell our home, hence the name StuckinCT. Now we can sell, but my wife and kids like our home so we are staying. We just bought a second house in Lake George with a boat and we are very excited about it.

I like the idea of downsizing at 62, but since that won't be happening anytime soon and houses in Mount Pleasant SC cost about $1mm for what we want, it is not like we would be lowering our expenses that much and the schools here are like private schools.

First world problems for sure, but I believe I need to save another $1.5-2mm to retire comfortably which will bring us to $14mm which sounds like a lot I know, so I will need to find a new gig next year. Thanks for everyone's thoughts, I am close but no cigar IMHO and I really do enjoy my club, boat and vaca house- I am willing to keep working for it.

Same song different verse. Just for kicks I went back 5 plus years to your first thread and guess what, it's basically a repeat of this one. Rinse and repeat...do what you what to, but only after you figure out what you really want to do. I'm guessing we'll be reading a new version of this question 5 years from now.

 

[StuckinCT]

Same song different verse. Just for kicks I went back 5 plus years to your first thread and guess what, it's basically a repeat of this one. Rinse and repeat...do what you what to, but only after you figure out what you really want to do. I'm guessing we'll be reading a new version of this question 5 years from now.

I disagree. Things have changed. Net worth up almost $3mm, sold VT house bought Lake George house, flew to SC to investigate Mount Pleasant but decided not to move until retirement due to potential bubble prices.

I also may lose my job next year when the business sale is complete, so I need to start figuring out my next move. I don't work for a Mega Corp.

 

[SecondCor521]

I disagree. Things have changed. Net worth up almost $3mm, sold VT house bought Lake George house, flew to SC to investigate Mount Pleasant but decided not to move until retirement due to potential bubble prices.

I also may lose my job next year when the business sale is complete, so I need to start figuring out my next move. I don't work for a Mega Corp.

External things have changed. Your internal angst seems constant.

 

[ivinsfan]

I disagree. Things have changed. Net worth up almost $3mm, sold VT house bought Lake George house, flew to SC to investigate Mount Pleasant but decided not to move until retirement due to potential bubble prices.

I also may lose my job next year when the business sale is complete, so I need to start figuring out my next move. I don't work for a Mega Corp.

OK let's meet up back here in 2026..

 

[tb001]

I must be missing something or mis counting. You have ~8.7m in invested assets, not including your home and another 1.75m for kids. 300k spend gives you a 3.5% withdrawal rate, which is more like a 3.2-3.3% withdrawal rate when you adjust for inflation on the mortgage and the fact that it will go away.

That alone should get you to 95 at 100% and you have LOTs of levers to pull if we started to see historically divergent outcomes. Not to mention your spend will likely go down as the kids launch.

Unless you want more, either so you can increase your spend or leave money to your kids, or your wife is much younger than you, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t be done. The odds are you will end up with far more than necessary.

It sounds more to me like you don’t want to be done and want to stay in accumulation mode. Which is fine and something I totally understand, but it’s not because you can’t pull the plug at your desired spend level IMO.

There’s a middle ground here too, which is what we’ve ended up doing. I would assume you have a valuable skill set and could likely earn a decent amount consulting independently. DH just wasn’t ready to start spending down the accounts, so he is consulting *very* part time and bringing in about 1/3-2/3 of our spend. We’ve spent some on home improvements, but it has significantly decreased what we need to draw. It comes with some tax benefits as well.

 

[pb4uski]

+1 OP has plenty... just frozen and can't pull the trigger... change is hard.

 

[luckydude]

Okay so the big 5-0 is just over 30 days away, and here is where things stand:

Primary Home- $1.49mm $565k mortgage
Second Home- $717.5k Paid
Taxable Portfolio- $7.2mm
IRA- $1.35mm
Roth-$150k
SS $42k me at 70 stopping now, wife will get $21k
No pension
No other debt

Total Spend including Taxes Health insurance is $300k
DW makes $25k part time job she likes and ten years younger
Three kids 11,10,9 have $1.75mm set aside in 529s /other accounts for Ed
Will downsize house at age 62 for $1mm home, reduce spend some as kids leave?

Firecalc just barely 100% spending $290k- assuming DW contributes $10k

I have to work until March of next year for final payment of business sale, which is factored in above, So drum roll, can I retire? Firecalc saying 3.5% WR is 100% living to 87 not including downsizing etc.??

** We assume $25k for misc expenses each year like new furniture, painting, replacing boilers AC Roof etc..

I still feel uncomfortable- I could cut CC club which is $25k or work part time as well.

You're assuming that you'll spend $290k annually for the rest of your life. I think that's an overestimate. The reason is that once you get into your 70s and 80s, you'll physically slow down, so for a lot of the activities (e.g. traveling, sports, shuttling between homes, etc.) that you are doing now, you'll more than likely not be able to do as much due to declining physical rigor, and the expenses associated with these things will be correspondingly reduced. Sure, the fix costs will still be there, but the discretionary spending (which I assume constitutes a large part of the $290k burn rate) will definitely be lower.

So I think you're definitely good to FIRE. There's no need to trade a few more precious years of your remaining physical active years for a extra few million that you won't need.

 

[Dtail]

Same song different verse. Just for kicks I went back 5 plus years to your first thread and guess what, it's basically a repeat of this one. Rinse and repeat...do what you what to, but only after you figure out what you really want to do. I'm guessing we'll be reading a new version of this question 5 years from now.

I unfortunately agree. In a different recent thread, the OP did mention that he is looking to retire at 55 which is 5 years from now.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

First, I think you have done well for yourself and your family. Take a bow! Second, I think your expenses are your business and need not be defended; these things are all relative. I get entirely how the new holiday home w/ boat is an undeniable draw. I am not into the CC lifestyle, but think that for you the country club membership needs to stay. You will likely want to play more, and your absence would be noticed. This could affect your social life and dampen your joy in RE. So, if the numbers are tight (and I think they are a bit), I would keep everything in the plan for now and get a j*b after the business sale. Perhaps you could consult in the same business line? You will know when it feels right to say "done and dusted"!

I look forward to more news from you as things develop.

-BB

 

[mrfeh]

Lots of sugar-coated replies in this thread; I'm gonna be more direct:

OP - get your expenses/lifestyle under control. With your current mindset, no amount of savings will be enough.

 

[pjigar]

If DW and the DKs have become used to the "finer things in life", then they may not agree with your definition of 'necessary expenses'.

My DD tells me that we live like "poor" people because I tell her to buy a $50 jeans rather than a $100 jeans!

 

[pjigar]

Deleted