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Old 10-23-2020, 11:04 AM   #21
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BTW, its always seemed odd to me how the insurance companies differentiate between uninsured and underinsured... wouldn't the uninsured be underinsured by default? I think it is just a ploy to make it more complicated and charge you another premium.
From my actuarial days, I can tell you that UMBI and UIMBI are priced much differently from each other. UIM assumes the other (at-fault) driver has some insurance but not enough of it. Combine that with the 3 ways the UIM coverage can kick in (and if there is stacking) and you end up with a rather complicated coverage to price.

UM and UIM are often sold together as a package. But in some states they are sold separately, without any law to require purchase of both (or neither). The huge number of different permutations with regard to the 4 UM/UIM coverages made maintaining programs and a description of the pricing for the regulators and insurance companies a major project, one I oversaw for many years in my career.
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:23 PM   #22
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90 degrees to this discussion (what else is new for Ko'olau?): Not sure here in Paradise, but in my last state, insurance companies were required to contact the state or DMV or whatever whenever someone dropped their insurance coverage. I assume folks could change from high coverage to minimum and not be reported.

That state had minimum requirements of auto insurance to get (IIRC) DL and Registration. Dropping coverage could result in suspension.

Before this rule, MIL (note I didn't say DMIL) let her insurance lapse. She got pulled over for a minor infraction and lost her DL for 3 months because she had no insurance. Good idea. BETTER idea is new rule to force insurance co. to contact the state. IIRC, dropping one insurance co. but picking up a new one involved some paperwork so that state was aware. YMMV
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:36 PM   #23
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90 degrees to this discussion (what else is new for Ko'olau?): Not sure here in Paradise, but in my last state, insurance companies were required to contact the state or DMV or whatever whenever someone dropped their insurance coverage. I assume folks could change from high coverage to minimum and not be reported.

That state had minimum requirements of auto insurance to get (IIRC) DL and Registration. Dropping coverage could result in suspension.

Before this rule, MIL (note I didn't say DMIL) let her insurance lapse. She got pulled over for a minor infraction and lost her DL for 3 months because she had no insurance. Good idea. BETTER idea is new rule to force insurance co. to contact the state. IIRC, dropping one insurance co. but picking up a new one involved some paperwork so that state was aware. YMMV
In my actuarial career, I remember working on some responses to state law changes which strengthened their mandatory car insurance laws. There was a study which showed that one of the top measures to reduce the rate of uninsured drivers was the addition of a requirement for insurance companies to notify state DMVs when an insurance policy was canceled. This was in the early 1990s when these types of technological improvements were becoming more common, and the study showed the rates of uninsured drivers in several states before and after this key change was made, with large drops in the UI population.

Simply reducing one's limits as long as all mandatory coverages are bought and at limits at least as high as the state's minimums (FR, Financial Responsibility) would not trigger such a report.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:04 PM   #24
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I max out. Seems odd to have high BI limits for everyone else, but not for my own family.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:52 PM   #25
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Interesting!
I will look to see what I have for coverage and costs sometime. Two years ago I visited my policies and made some changes, can't remember what thou. I do know I have an umbrella policy if not covered by the policy itself.

I'm one not to take an risk when it comes to this kind of thing. I would rather be over insured then under. To many people on the roads that shouldn't be driving because of their bad habits.
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:10 PM   #26
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Just got my insurance bill today. UIM/UM $100/ year for 2 cars and drivers. 100/300 coverage. Just under 10% of total insurance bill.

I would not think about eliminating it, but 500k (per OP) may be on the high side of coverage.
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:20 PM   #27
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^ It isn't a hard decision for me. A young person gets killed or two young people get killed in a car accident that 500 might not even be enough.

Any insurance you buy is a gamble. If I had nothing I would have as little insurance as I could get by on. The more you have the more I would be afraid to gamble.
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:51 PM   #28
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Just checked and I am paying 17.00 every 6 months for 250/500 on UM/UIM.

It is a money decision and I would not change to save 17 bucks in my case.

It may be you need to re-shop your rates if you are over paying for UM/UI
Not fair...
I also live in IL, and I pay twice that rate:
250/500/15 for $31 on an old car that has no collision. (22%)
250/500 for $35 on a 5 yr old vehicle with collision (11%)

I'm not sure why I have UIPD on the old car and not the newer one

May have to phone my agent. as I'd rather have it on the newer vehicle that is worth $$
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Old 10-24-2020, 05:53 AM   #29
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I'm still not sure about how the interplay between UM/UIM and Medicare works and hope someone with expertise can answer this.

Let's say I have liability coverage of $500K per person/$1 million per accident and have bought UM and UIM at those limits as well. Someone with $25,000/$50,000 coverage injures me in an at-fault accident and my medical bills are $750,000. Medicare pays it all but then goes after the at-fault driver for the first $25,000. They can also get $475,000 from my UIM coverage. Medicare has no way to recover the remaining $250K, right? (Let's assume the at-fault driver is judgment-proof.)

If that's true, buying UM/UIM is more to protect Medicare than to protect me. I'll still buy it anyway.
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Old 10-24-2020, 06:13 AM   #30
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^^^ I'm guessing that in the situation that you describe that Medicare might get $25k from the underinsured at-fault driver and either nothing or $500k from your UIM.... but if you only had $100k UM/UIM then at best they would only get $100k from your insurer.

But I'm not buying insurance to protect Medicare but it does raise an interesting issue.

I would buy UI/UIM to cover me for the potential costs in the OP. Is it possible that if I had the situation that athena outlines that I would have to share my UI/UIM with Medicare so there would be less money available to me for the items outlined in the OP?
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Old 10-24-2020, 06:24 AM   #31
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$160/a year. I'm too close to NYC and a few other metropolitan areas where exposure to uninsured motorists is significant enough that I'm keeping the coverage.
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:59 AM   #32
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Not fair...
I also live in IL, and I pay twice that rate:
250/500/15 for $31 on an old car that has no collision. (22%)
250/500 for $35 on a 5 yr old vehicle with collision (11%)

I'm not sure why I have UIPD on the old car and not the newer one

May have to phone my agent. as I'd rather have it on the newer vehicle that is worth $$
Numbers above are for 6 months coverage.

I checked my last year policy and see that the removal of collision coverage seems to have added on the UIPD coverage of $15,000 at a cost of $5
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Old 10-24-2020, 09:35 AM   #33
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Not fair...
I also live in IL, and I pay twice that rate:
250/500/15 for $31 on an old car that has no collision. (22%)
250/500 for $35 on a 5 yr old vehicle with collision (11%)

I'm not sure why I have UIPD on the old car and not the newer one

May have to phone my agent. as I'd rather have it on the newer vehicle that is worth $$
The newer vehicle has collision coverage so does not need UMPD which is for damage to your vehicle caused by an uninsured motorist. UMBI is for bodily injury caused by an uninsured or underinsured motorist. UMPD coverage
can be useful for an older vehicle without collision coverage, but not if the cost of the coverage is prohibitive.

I shop rates every year, so I hope to find the lowest rates. Service is not a priority for me as I am retired from Insurance claims, and know how to get paid.
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Old 10-24-2020, 11:50 AM   #34
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The newer vehicle has collision coverage so does not need UMPD which is for damage to your vehicle caused by an uninsured motorist. UMBI is for bodily injury caused by an uninsured or underinsured motorist. UMPD coverage
can be useful for an older vehicle without collision coverage, but not if the cost of the coverage is prohibitive.

I shop rates every year, so I hope to find the lowest rates. Service is not a priority for me as I am retired from Insurance claims, and know how to get paid.
Now I know, and feel the $5 cost is worth it, since we live in an area with lots of UI motorists, even if they would simply write off my car which is worth maybe $2,500

Thanks ...
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Old 10-24-2020, 01:01 PM   #35
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90 degrees to this discussion (what else is new for Ko'olau?): Not sure here in Paradise, but in my last state, insurance companies were required to contact the state or DMV or whatever whenever someone dropped their insurance coverage.
This only works of course if the now-uninsured person stops driving when the insurance stops, which I strongly believe is the exception and not the rule. In MD, where I worked as a police officer, the state only sent a letter to the recently uninsured person to return the license plates but if they failed to do so no further direct action was taken other than to "flag" the tags as being uninsured. This meant that they only popped up on the radar if a police officer happened to have reason to get a listing or check for stolen on the tags. From time to time I did come across one of those and we'd take the tags (later returned to MVA) and tow and impound the vehicle, and they'd get a ticket that (I think) was a "must appear in court" violation - no set fine. And brother, you'd dang well better have a good story! Chances were good you'd see the inside of a jail cell for at least a few days.

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If I had nothing I would have as little insurance as I could get by on. The more you have the more I would be afraid to gamble.
+1

As one insurance agent put it "Insurance is only for those who have something to lose".
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Old 10-24-2020, 05:05 PM   #36
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I haven't done auto since dinosaurs roamed the earth, and only NY, so take this with a grain of salt.

There is a lot on that list that Medicare won't pay. For example pain and suffering. Moreover, doesn't the insurance for the (medical) under the auto policy kick-in first, i.e. primary to Medicare? (If Medicare isn't paying the bill in the first place, they don't get paid back for it.)

Secondly, (and again, my knowledge is limited) say you are badly injured, and the party who causes the accident has a wopping 15k in BI limits or (State requirements differ), flees the scene or is uninsured.

Your attorney settles with the carrier for the tort feasor for their policy limits and then (again this is NY) submits a demand for arbitration for the policy limits of your Under Insured Policy. That may result in a settlement with your carrier; or it may go to Arbitration.

But - like life insurance - better if you never need it.

But - this is kinda like life insurance - better if you never need it.

Can Medicare get involved, yes, although typically their liens are much smaller than you might expect and are negotiable by your attorney. (Yes, you most likely would want an attorney to deal with this so you don't make any missteps which could either cost you access to your policy or fail to iron out any Medicare issues; such as whether or not a Medicare set aside is necessary.
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Old 10-24-2020, 06:33 PM   #37
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Just to keep everything in perspective: The old adage (recommendation, or whatever) regarding insurance is: Insure for what you can't afford to cover out of pocket. In reality, a lot of insurance is a "pay as you go" sort of deal - with the insurance company tacking on their prophet. This would NOT be true for liability. Most of us would struggle if we suddenly had to write a check for $100K or $250K to a pedestrian, dressed in black who walked out in front of us between corners - but won a suit against us!

More to the point would be roadside assistance. Cost me about $3/month IIRC. I could afford a tow any time I need it. So why would I do the pay-as-you-go roadside assistance? I think it's as simple as KNOWING if I need a tow, I don't have to worry about what it will cost. I whip out my insurance card and call the 800 number on the back. From then on, it's not my problem.

I've dropped collision on 2 of my 3 cars since they are at least 20 years old. One collision and they are junk (or I can drive them as-is!)

As far as u/um coverage: I think it probably makes sense to keep it if it isn't too expensive. From the discussion, I think many of us aren't even too certain what all it covers. I guess that should be my next discussion with insurance lady but YMMV.
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:13 PM   #38
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Based on thr amount of uninsured drivers in my city I would not consider dropping it as long as I live here
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:46 PM   #39
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Based on thr amount of uninsured drivers in my city I would not consider dropping it as long as I live here
I don't have a good feeling for how many uninsured we have here, BUT you not only have to be insured to get your yearly tags but also when you go for your State inspection. Newer cars are usually "synchronized" for these two blessed events, but if a car has sat on a used car lot for a month or more, the synchronization is lost - which means TWO chances for the State to insist that you be insured. I'm sure all states are different on how they deal with insurance so YMMV.
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:01 PM   #40
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We were hit 2x by uninsureds in NYC. (No injuries, thank goodness.)
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