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Old 12-05-2020, 02:25 PM   #61
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Does anyone know if the the SSA (or whatever Govt. agency) automatically checks taxes returns each year (filing from 2 years ago) to determine (i.e.and automatically adjust up or down) IRMAA level each year?

Or does one have file an appeal if they in IRMAA stage X, and their income drops for whatever reason to lower their IRMAA level, or get it lowered or removed permanently (until they have big income hit again).

FYI - Here is a another link to another thread from this year on IRMAA. https://www.early-retirement.org/for...end-83713.html
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Old 12-05-2020, 02:45 PM   #62
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Does anyone know if the the SSA (or whatever Govt. agency) automatically checks taxes returns each year (filing from 2 years ago) to determine (i.e.and automatically adjust up or down) IRMAA level each year?
Yes.
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Old 12-05-2020, 03:25 PM   #63
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Yes.
Yes, you know, or yes, they do? Likely both, but not entirely clear.
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Old 12-05-2020, 03:25 PM   #64
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Yes, they do.
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Old 12-05-2020, 04:11 PM   #65
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Yes, you know, or yes, they do? Likely both, but not entirely clear.
Yes.

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Old 12-05-2020, 04:26 PM   #66
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^^^^^^^

I think you need to file form SSA-44 for any reconsideration.. I know I'm thinking about it for next year.
Ditto here. We ended up jumping two tiers into IRMAA, for 2021 essentially doubling our Medicare premiums, based on 2019 income, the first year that the tax torpedo hit us, (2 RMD's plus 2 deferred til 70, SS payments in addition to pensions and VA disability). That will be our status annually for the long term, but as we did not take RMD's in 2020, due to the CARE's Act, we will not pay IRMAA in 2022. We will also try to claw it back in 2021, filing the SSA 44 form, once our tax return for 2020 is completed. If it works - great. If not, we'll survive.
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Old 12-05-2020, 05:03 PM   #67
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If I do not do Roth Conversions now, the projections show the RMDs will push us in higher tax brackets later, if we do the Roth conversions IRMAA gets us now.

A sweet spot to be in..... Ha

My guess is doing Roth Conversions now is still better than RMDs related income taxes later. But I am not sure.

Similar story with Tax Exempt Bond Funds, you pay less income tax, but the income pushes your MAGI to a higher TIER in Medicare Premiums.

The choice is ours which way or by what name you choose the hair cut by the taxes..
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Old 12-05-2020, 06:16 PM   #68
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If I do not do Roth Conversions now, the projections show the RMDs will push us in higher tax brackets later, if we do the Roth conversions IRMAA gets us now.
A little perspective is needed here. You may know this, but it can be misleading to others.

IRMAA is not a yes or no proposition. There are tiers. If you do Roth conversions now that push you into IRMAA, but it may (or may not) keep you from being in a higher tier later when you must take RMDs.

Quote:

My guess is doing Roth Conversions now is still better than RMDs related income taxes later. But I am not sure.
Why not model it, with a spreadsheet or tax program? There are some assumptions (guesses) that you must make, but it doesn't have to be a total guess.

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Similar story with Tax Exempt Bond Funds, you pay less income tax, but the income pushes your MAGI to a higher TIER in Medicare Premiums.
I don't see any similarity.

Presumably you would invest in lower yielding tax exempt bond funds if the after tax return was better than taxable bonds. Yes, you have to add the tax-exempt bond income for the IRMAA MAGI calculation. But your alternative would've been taxable bonds; income from those is already part of AGI. In fact, taxable bond income is higher. There's no penalty wrt to IRMAA in having tax-exempt bonds.
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Old 12-05-2020, 06:22 PM   #69
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You can call IRMAA whatever you want, but in my humble opinion, when money leaves my pocket and goes into the government's pocket, that is a tax....
Under that construct the regular Part B premium is also a tax in that it is money that leaves your pcoket and goes into the government's pocket... so I think that is a poor way to define a tax. Are you seriously asserting that the regular Part B premium is a tax?

OTOH, you can easily avoid the regular Part B premium and any IRMAA premiums by just not claiming Medicare and buy you own private insurance. Does that make you feel better?
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Old 12-05-2020, 07:40 PM   #70
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IRMAA got us this year. I thought she was a nice old fashioned girl until I opened the SS letter. We sold an inherited house last year and that triggered IRMAA in a big way.

Am I right that there is (a) no recourse, and (b) this is a one year reduction in SS benefits and next year will be based on our 2020 income?
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Old 12-05-2020, 07:46 PM   #71
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IRMAA got us this year. I thought she was a nice old fashioned girl until I opened the SS letter. We sold an inherited house last year and that triggered IRMAA in a big way.

Am I right that there is (a) no recourse, and (b) this is a one year reduction in SS benefits and next year will be based on our 2020 income?
Right. 2022 Medicare premiums will be based on 2020 income. It’s a one year deal.

Did you wait to sell the inherited house and it appreciated a lot after you inherited it?
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Old 12-05-2020, 07:55 PM   #72
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Right. 2022 Medicare premiums will be based on 2020 income. Itís a one year deal.

Did you wait to sell the inherited house and it appreciated a lot after you inherited it?
My father passed away in 1982 but his widow occupied the house until last year when she died. She was a nut case and the house was not in the greatest shape.

I sold it immediately and am glad I did as Covid might have made it a mess should I have chosen to try to rent it out. And I don't really know if renting it would have changed the inheritance picture as far as taxes are concerned. The house is in a community that had gone way down hill in recent decades.

Glad to close that ugly chapter in post-family history.
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:23 PM   #73
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IRMAA got us this year. I thought she was a nice old fashioned girl until I opened the SS letter. We sold an inherited house last year and that triggered IRMAA in a big way.

Am I right that there is (a) no recourse, and (b) this is a one year reduction in SS benefits and next year will be based on our 2020 income?
We're still in 2020. When you say you sold last year, you mean 2019, right? In that case, IRMAA would get you next year, 2021, not this year. And the year after (2022) would be based on 2020 income.

I can't tell if you are confused about IRMAA being based on two vs one years ago income, or if you have already received your 2021 notice and are thinking of 2021 as "this year".

Can't blame you for wanting to put 2020 in the rear view mirror a little early.
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:27 PM   #74
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Under that construct the regular Part B premium is also a tax in that it is money that leaves your pcoket and goes into the government's pocket... so I think that is a poor way to define a tax. Are you seriously asserting that the regular Part B premium is a tax?

OTOH, you can easily avoid the regular Part B premium and any IRMAA premiums by just not claiming Medicare and buy you own private insurance. Does that make you feel better?

pb4uski, you are certainly in an argumentative mood today. In my estimation, even more than usual! The taxes I paid all during my working career along with those of my employer were quite real. They are called taxes by Medicare. They were intended to fund Medicare. I am pretty confident that I along with my employer have fully funded my Medicare bennifits. I also realize that current payroll taxes fund current Medicare recipients including me as my taxes did for those on Medicare when I was working and contributing. If it makes you happy to think of money collected by government as fees that is a good thing because that seems to be what government wants you to think. When I have to pay additional costs because of my income I cannot call it a fee because I am not receiving any additional value so I will continue to call it a tax, not a fee.
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:46 PM   #75
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We're still in 2020. When you say you sold last year, you mean 2019, right? In that case, IRMAA would get you next year, 2021, not this year. And the year after (2022) would be based on 2020 income.

I can't tell if you are confused about IRMAA being based on two vs one years ago income, or if you have already received your 2021 notice and are thinking of 2021 as "this year".

Can't blame you for wanting to put 2020 in the rear view mirror a little early.
Yes 2021 is the bad SS year. Just had read the SS notice today.
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:46 PM   #76
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The United States is broke. Medicare is broke, SS is broke. We owe lotsa bucks. We the people are in a deep hole.

Some of us deeper than others. Those not so deep can afford a few more bucks me thinks.

I don't mind, I can afford it. In fact I'm thrilled that I can afford it -
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:55 PM   #77
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pb4uski, you are certainly in an argumentative mood today. In my estimation, even more than usual! The taxes I paid all during my working career along with those of my employer were quite real. They are called taxes by Medicare. They were intended to fund Medicare. I am pretty confident that I along with my employer have fully funded my Medicare bennifits. I also realize that current payroll taxes fund current Medicare recipients including me as my taxes did for those on Medicare when I was working and contributing. If it makes you happy to think of money collected by government as fees that is a good thing because that seems to be what government wants you to think. When I have to pay additional costs because of my income I cannot call it a fee because I am not receiving any additional value so I will continue to call it a tax, not a fee.
I'm frequently argumentative when people are posting rubbish... like calling something a tax when it isn't a tax... a character flaw I guess.

Taxes are non-discretionary... if you don't pay income taxes or self-employment taxes then eventually they throw you in jail. If you don't pay property taxes then eventually they confiscate your property. The Medicare taxes that you, me and our employers paid while we were working were indeed taxes.. they were non-discretionary and as you correctly point out were used to support the Medicare program. I never said that they were fees so please don't try to mischaracterize what I wrote.

If you don't pay Part B premiums or IRMAA premiums then they don't throw you in jail... other adverse and unattractive things happen like losing Part B coverage.. just like you would lose coverage for any other insurance premium that you fail to pay... but that's the sole consequence for non-payment.

I can see a certain logic to viewing IRMAA premium adjustments as a tax because they are based on income... but you never said that... you said that "when money leaves my pocket and goes into the government's pocket, that is a tax".. which is a silly statement. When you pay an entrance fee to go into a national park money leaves your pocket and goes into the government's pocket, but it clearly isn't a tax. When you order a passport the fee goes from your pocket into the government's pocket, and that clearly isn't a tax. In both the entrance fee and passport fee the key difference is that you don't have to do either... they are both exchange transactions where you are paying the government for something that you want. In the prior post I was calling you out on the silliness of your statement that "when money leaves my pocket and goes into the government's pocket, that is a tax".

Medicare Part B premiums are similarly an exchange transaction like park entrance fees or passport fees... you pay them in exchange for Part B insurance coverage.

I go to a local non-profit dental practice that has a sliding scale based on income for charges for dental services... I pay full boat of course, but I like the place and they do good work at reasonable prices and it is convenient to where I live in the summer so I am happy to support them. IRMAA is sort of an inverse sliding scale... rather than lower income paying less than full price the lower income pay the full price and higher income participants pay more. Technically it is simply a higher premium because the only consequence of failing to pay is that your insurance coverage is cancelled... but if someone wanted to claim that IRMAA is a tax then I wouldn't necessarily argue with that... but to claim broadly that "when money leaves my pocket and goes into the government's pocket, that is a tax" is silly.
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:57 PM   #78
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The United States is broke. Medicare is broke, SS is broke. We owe lotsa bucks. We the people are in a deep hole.

Some of us deeper than others. Those not so deep can afford a few more bucks me thinks.

I don't mind, I can afford it. In fact I'm thrilled that I can afford it -
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:34 PM   #79
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The United States is broke. Medicare is broke, SS is broke. We owe lotsa bucks. We the people are in a deep hole.

Some of us deeper than others. Those not so deep can afford a few more bucks me thinks.

I don't mind, I can afford it. In fact I'm thrilled that I can afford it -
Robbie, your attitude is a breath of fresh air - in a world that could use a lot more fresh air!
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Old 12-05-2020, 10:22 PM   #80
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pb4uski, you are certainly in an argumentative mood today. In my estimation, even more than usual! The taxes I paid all during my working career along with those of my employer were quite real. They are called taxes by Medicare. They were intended to fund Medicare. I am pretty confident that I along with my employer have fully funded my Medicare bennifits. I also realize that current payroll taxes fund current Medicare recipients including me as my taxes did for those on Medicare when I was working and contributing. If it makes you happy to think of money collected by government as fees that is a good thing because that seems to be what government wants you to think. When I have to pay additional costs because of my income I cannot call it a fee because I am not receiving any additional value so I will continue to call it a tax, not a fee.
Your understanding and characterization of Medicare taxes is incorrect. The Medicare taxes you and your employer paid to the government cover your Part A benefit, not Parts B or D. Parts B and D are funded differently. The funding is explained here: https://www.medicare.gov/about-us/ho...edicare-funded
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