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Old 04-18-2021, 07:42 PM   #21
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... I point out these things to show that there are many paths besides college - even today.
+1

Mike Rowe (former host of Dirty Jobs on the Discovery Channel) has a foundation that gives scholarships to people for training in the skilled trades.

https://www.mikeroweworks.org/about/
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Old 04-18-2021, 07:52 PM   #22
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There never were any factories near any place I ever lived. I knew about skilled trades and construction sites, as my father was a master electrician specializing in high-voltage construction. He raised three kids on his wages, and he never finished high school. He usually commuted about 40 miles to the sites his union assigned him to work, but he refused to live near those sites because the schools were bad.

OK, that was a million years ago, I am old, and he is long dead. The young tradespeople who come to our home, have interesting stories about how they got into their trades. One woman, a plumber who re-set a toilet for us, started out by helping the school janitor after school. The man who is repairing a tile floor for us, learned his trade from his grandfather, a Polish immigrant. We've also had four, count 'em, different sets of brothers doing a/c installation, home electrical repairs, and pest control. All these people are young enough to be my kids. The brother pairs all own their businesses.

I point out these things to show that there are many paths besides college - even today.
yes. it's never been easier to GAIN valuable skills whether in trades, coding camps, or college which has never been more accessible through juco.

And we do still have factories and shop floors.
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Old 04-18-2021, 09:39 PM   #23
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And JCs are tuition free for almost everyone!!
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Old 04-18-2021, 09:49 PM   #24
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Kids these days.


“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”
Socrates 469 – 533 B.C.E


"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them".
Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274


"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC


"When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint".
Hesiod, 8th century BC


"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control."
Inscription, 6000 year-old Egyptian tomb
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:17 PM   #25
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Yeah, I could really go off on this subject with dozens of examples. I don't think it's so much that kids are "different" now as it is WE were different than OUR parents (okay, whatever you call kids these days vs us Baby Boomers.) WE are the ones that insisted EVERYONE get a college degree at the expense of vocational training. WE (for the most part) are the ones that insisted that there be grants and loans and every other kind of gift to the universities. Using the last one as an example, what did we get? More beautiful campuses with 2 or 3 more layers of bureaucracy between the TA actually doing the teaching and the College Top Administrator. AND yet - costs are through the roof and the education has been dumbed down - IMHO. Keep in mind I have 3 kids less than 12 years out of University. Not ONE knows anything about history. Not ONE knows about English Lit. Not ONE knows the Good and Indifferent in addition to the Bad about their own country. Not ONE graduated debt free. They ARE independent because we insisted and insured that they faced the consequences of their actions. They understand their place in the world because WE taught them.

Okay, end of rant since YMMV.
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Old 04-19-2021, 08:42 AM   #26
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The concept of delayed gratification has become all but extinct.
It's no surprise that if you keep promising that all university debt will be cancelled and people will get a universal basic income for life for doing nothing, then we shouldn't be surprised if some people start believing it's owed to them.
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Old 04-19-2021, 08:46 AM   #27
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Some people do have unrealistic expectations, but I think it is absolutely true that it's more difficult to build financial security as easily as past generations (at least for most young people). Just look at the data............wages have been basically flat (or actually declining, when factoring in inflation) since about 1980. We've had a couple of recessions and a pandemic lately, that has really set a lot of young people back quite a few years in their careers. Sure, some highly motivated young folks have managed to avoid these pitfalls and still do fine, but a whole lot more are struggling. Personally, I am glad that I entered my working years when I did, as opposed to anytime in the last couple of decades. All you need to do is look at the huge increase in wealth inequality in this country over the last 30-40 years to see where the vast majority of the $$ is going. It's not a trend that is good for the country, IMO.
+1!

I couldn’t have said it better myself.
The stereotyping of the ‘lazy younger generation’ is rampant here.
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Old 04-19-2021, 08:53 AM   #28
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Kids!
I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!
Kids!
Who can understand anything they say?
Kids!
They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy, loafers!
While we're on the subject:
Kids!
You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
Kids!
But they still just do what they want to do!
Why can't they be like we were
Perfect in every way?

What's the matter with kids today?
-- from Bye Bye Birdie, 1963
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:03 AM   #29
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Some people do have unrealistic expectations, but I think it is absolutely true that it's more difficult to build financial security as easily as past generations (at least for most young people). Just look at the data............wages have been basically flat (or actually declining, when factoring in inflation) since about 1980. We've had a couple of recessions and a pandemic lately, that has really set a lot of young people back quite a few years in their careers. Sure, some highly motivated young folks have managed to avoid these pitfalls and still do fine, but a whole lot more are struggling. Personally, I am glad that I entered my working years when I did, as opposed to anytime in the last couple of decades. All you need to do is look at the huge increase in wealth inequality in this country over the last 30-40 years to see where the vast majority of the $$ is going. It's not a trend that is good for the country, IMO.
Agree.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:22 AM   #30
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Some people do have unrealistic expectations, but I think it is absolutely true that it's more difficult to build financial security as easily as past generations (at least for most young people). Just look at the data............wages have been basically flat (or actually declining, when factoring in inflation) since about 1980. We've had a couple of recessions and a pandemic lately, that has really set a lot of young people back quite a few years in their careers. Sure, some highly motivated young folks have managed to avoid these pitfalls and still do fine, but a whole lot more are struggling. Personally, I am glad that I entered my working years when I did, as opposed to anytime in the last couple of decades. All you need to do is look at the huge increase in wealth inequality in this country over the last 30-40 years to see where the vast majority of the $$ is going. It's not a trend that is good for the country, IMO.
Wages flat but I entered the post-college workforce about that then (1981 actually) and somehow managed to grow my income steadily over time through having more marketable skills and qualifying myself for better jobs.

And interest costs declined steadily-right up till today--so financing home ownership got steadily cheaper, for example.

That same steady decline in interest rates drove the greatest bull market in stocks in history. If you lived below your means and saved some (I did) you really got massive returns since 1980.

All told, it was an excellent time to enter the workforce, in my opinion. The opportunity lies with the individual.
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Old 04-19-2021, 10:29 AM   #31
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There are many variables and excuses. I don't necessarily think things are tougher these days than perhaps in the past...each generation has had some type of significant event that shapes their future. What I tend to see is a general malaise in that hard work shouldn't be required for success.

Whether it be the traditional college route or a blue collar trade, it takes considerable work to get ahead in the world. And guess what? There are a LOT more people than there were on the globe, so the competition is greater. Not much room for mediocrity these days.

I know folks that did the enlisted military route and some how got to be quite successful in life.

I know folks that did the traditional college route and some how got to be quite successful.

I know folks that were plumbers/landscapers/electricians and some how got the be quite successful.

What they all have in common is that they all WORKED VERY HARD to get where they are.

On the other hand, I have met two (maybe 3?) folks who either came from dynastic wealth or were "trust fund babies" and have done pretty well, probably with not too much work...but those are few and far between.
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Old 04-19-2021, 10:54 AM   #32
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somehow managed

Open admission of luck. Everything else sort of evaporates after that. Sorry, it's right there in the language.
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Old 04-19-2021, 11:15 AM   #33
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Wow, what a change of pace from:
I am lucky to have been, born, healthy, white, male, in the USA, at the right time, happened to like listening to talk radio, happened to hear, enjoy and learn much from Bob Brinker on the radio and begin investing because of that. I’m just so lucky. But, I didn’t build that! It is only because I was lucky. Only being somewhat sarcastic.

Oh, and we lived below our means, not sure who did that for me.
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Old 04-19-2021, 11:27 AM   #34
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Indeed. A regular complaint I hear about Connecticut is that taxes are too high to retire here. Which baffles me, because they've been the same for a long time and it shouldn't come as a surprise.
But, if you have no family connections to a high-cost area, there is a huge incentive to leave. That was our choice, though we knew that we wouldn't retire in the DC area for a decade before we left.

I have family who are staying in New York because of their grown children, even though they are quite unhappy (and probably underfunded) there.
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Old 04-19-2021, 11:49 AM   #35
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As the pandemic stretches on, I have noticed a lot of people with unrealistic expectations. A few examples are the fact that people expect a vaccine to be 100% effective, no side effects, no illness, and no pain. People are expecting colleges to be completely free, everybody accepted, no cost factor, and a ticket to a million dollar house on graduation. People are saying you can't build financial security as easily as past generations. Whether that's the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, get it?
I think it's a lot to do with the fact that journalism is funded by clicks on headlines that are shocking. Ridiculous headlines make us think, "what the hell" and then click to read which in turn funds more of the same headlines. When the news media acts as if vaccines should be 100% perfect and any deviation is cause for headlines, then we think other people have those expectations. Rinse and repeat on any other topic.
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Old 04-19-2021, 12:00 PM   #36
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Open admission of luck. Everything else sort of evaporates after that. Sorry, it's right there in the language.
Stop trolling.
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Old 04-19-2021, 01:15 PM   #37
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I will completely disagree the premise of the OP. I have a couple of 20-something children who are out working now. Despite the rant-fest in this thread, neither they nor their friends have unrealistic expectations. And I can extend that to people I know in all age groups.

Get out there and see what the Real World is like. This is not a FairyLand Utopia and if anyone believes that then they are being exposed to the wrong media sources as well as the wrong message boards. Don't be one of the people spreading misinformation, too.
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Old 04-19-2021, 01:19 PM   #38
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Get out there and see what the Real World is like. This is not a FairyLand Utopia
Actually I agree 1000% but I do read that on all boards (even here), hear it in the news these days, and evidently throughout history
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Old 04-19-2021, 01:42 PM   #39
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I will completely disagree the premise of the OP. I have a couple of 20-something children who are out working now. Despite the rant-fest in this thread, neither they nor their friends have unrealistic expectations. And I can extend that to people I know in all age groups.

Get out there and see what the Real World is like. This is not a FairyLand Utopia and if anyone believes that then they are being exposed to the wrong media sources as well as the wrong message boards. Don't be one of the people spreading misinformation, too.
It's not just media and message boards. Schools and universities are also spreading misinformation.

That being said, I know many young people who are doing well. The ones that aren't...it's likely that some of them would have struggled decades ago too.
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Old 04-19-2021, 02:41 PM   #40
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I will completely disagree the premise of the OP. I have a couple of 20-something children who are out working now. Despite the rant-fest in this thread, neither they nor ttheir friends have unrealistic expectations. And I can extend that to people I know in all age groups.

Get out there and see what the Real World is like. This is not a FairyLand Utopia and if anyone believes that then they are being exposed to the wrong media sources as well as the wrong message boards. Don't be one of the people spreading misinformation, too.
I was interviewing for a leadership role a few years back. I asked the CIO what was his biggest concern. He said that the new employees had very different criteria for accepting a job. They no longer cared about a pension, they were only moderately interested in their salary. The questions all revolved around time off and the ability to take time away from work. He was very concerned about employee retention (not that companies are loyal anymore). He also was not quite sure how to fix the issue if you have staff that would just leave. Just something to consider when people discuss the younger generation and what their criteria is for a "good" company. It seems a bit short sighted to me .. my opinion of course.
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