Vanguard - last straw?

[mathjak107]

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Originally Posted by purplesky The crazy thing is Vanguard is now so successful that people leaving for Schwab and Fidelity is not even a concern for Vanguard. Vanguard does not care. People switch to Schwab and Fidelity and buy VTI or VYM or VIG and give their money right back to Vanguard. lol I own VTI at Fidelity and Schwab and in my 401k. I own SCHD at Vanguard. lol It sounds like Fidelity is a better fit for you so that's good. The Fidelity Visa 2% cash back is my favorite thing about Fidelity.

I have the fidelity card but I rarely use it . I have better cards

[Koolau]

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Originally Posted by RetMD21 I wondered about that. Vanguard got some blowback about giving some customers preferential treatment when they started Flagship and Voyager status and even admiral shares. I guess they are more discrete now. It does sound like they could benefit from a little more investment in infrastructure.

Heh, heh, imagine that! Giving more perks to folks who invest more money. What IS the world coming to.

Actually, I was kinda excited about Admiral status 'cause it saves me money. I don't want investing help, only functional help once in a while. YMMV

[Katsmeow]

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Originally Posted by VanWinkle I'm tired of reading these "I hate Vanguard service" threads. They are like Walmart, someone always hates the big winners. I have accounts at Vanguard and at Fidelity. I see no difference in the service, but I don't see anyone bashing Fidelity on an almost weekly basis. VW

Maybe Fidelity does less that result in bashing. I mean, of course, every company (including Fidelity) can have someone who provides poor service. I also have accounts at Vanguard and Fidelity.

My perception is that the quality of service is, overall, better at Fidelity. I did have someone at Fidelity who gave me completely incorrect information. My former employer had discontinued the 401(k) plan and I was being switched to an IRA. The first person I spoke to gave wrong info as to how the process would work. However, she transferred me to someone who did know how it would work and he quickly told me she was wrong.

My accounts are not complex and so I rarely have to talk to anyone. But, overall, I've found Fidelity to be a bit more helpful.

Also, I think Vanguard's website is behind the times in many ways. I don't like to have all of my money at one place but I have toyed with switching the Vanguard portion to Schwab.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

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Originally Posted by mathjak107 I have the fidelity card but I rarely use it . I have better cards

Really? Which ones? The only other ones I've had that have been better are my current Amazon Chase Visa, which is 5% for Amazon purchases only, and the Amex Blue Preferred which offered 6% on groceries but with a yearly limit on that and an annual fee that meant it only gained us about $200/year overall, not worth a third card and more complicated rules about when to use them. If there's one with better, unlimited rewards and no annual fee I might switch!

[Katsmeow]

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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger Really? Which ones? The only other ones I've had that have been better are my current Amazon Chase Visa, which is 5% for Amazon purchases only, and the Amex Blue Preferred which offered 6% on groceries but with a yearly limit on that and an annual fee that meant it only gained us about $200/year overall, not worth a third card and more complicated rules about when to use them. If there's one with better, unlimited rewards and no annual fee I might switch!

I am glad you asked this because I wondered the same thing. I use the exact same card you use except I also use the Chase Freedom Unlimited card. It gives you 3% on Restaurants and drugstores.

I do use the Amex Blue Preferred on some other categories as well. They give 6% on streaming subscriptions (HBO, YouTubeTV) and 3% on gas stations so I also use them for that as well as the grocery store of course.

Oh, also, I have an Apple card and I get 3% on purchases from Apple. We have phones from Apple and a MacBook Pro that I used that on. Also we have their premium subscription service.

Everything else in Fidelity. Some people who like other cards are people who do a lot of travel and like the travel rewards. That doesn't really affect us as we don't do a lot of travel.

[mathjak107]

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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger Really? Which ones? The only other ones I've had that have been better are my current Amazon Chase Visa, which is 5% for Amazon purchases only, and the Amex Blue Preferred which offered 6% on groceries but with a yearly limit on that and an annual fee that meant it only gained us about $200/year overall, not worth a third card and more complicated rules about when to use them. If there's one with better, unlimited rewards and no annual fee I might switch!

I use the citi cash card for groceries which is 5%

I use the chase sapphire reserve ,the chase freedom and freedom unlimited for everything else depending which has the better deals

All the points Get multiplied by 50% when I transfer them to the sapphire and use it for travel via the chase Expedia portal ..

I got 100,000 points for taking the sapphire, 20,000 for referring my wife for the sapphire preferred and she got 100,000 points for taking the preferred.

So 220,000 points which get a 50% boost as we use it for travel.

When my freedom card has 5% on groceries I use that instead of citi and then transfer it to my reserve for a 50% boost.

We like traveling a lot , even if it is just local trips over night …

[target2019]

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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger Really? Which ones? The only other ones I've had that have been better are my current Amazon Chase Visa, which is 5% for Amazon purchases only, and the Amex Blue Preferred which offered 6% on groceries but with a yearly limit on that and an annual fee that meant it only gained us about $200/year overall, not worth a third card and more complicated rules about when to use them. If there's one with better, unlimited rewards and no annual fee I might switch!

We're still holding Penfed cash rewards card. 5% at the pump. Target and Lowes are 5% in their stores.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Thanks for the data!

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Originally Posted by mathjak107 I use the citi cash card for groceries which is 5% <snip>

Is there a yearly limit or annual fee on that? That's pretty good. Although I don't trust travel rewards, I feel like the "points" are not available on the best travel deals and are used to push me to choose more expensive options. But that's more a "me" thing, trying to keep it simple; when I'm actually retired and can travel whenever I want I'll probably try to evaluate the actual value of travel points.

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Originally Posted by target2019 We're still holding Penfed cash rewards card. 5% at the pump. Target and Lowes are 5% in their stores.

That's pretty good considering how much you can spend at Lowes....and now at the pump! I had discounted gas rewards as inconsequential, but even though we both work from home we still need to drive for errands, and that's becoming more significant!

[mathjak107]

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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger Thanks for the data! Is there a yearly limit or annual fee on that? That's pretty good. Although I don't trust travel rewards, I feel like the "points" are not available on the best travel deals and are used to push me to choose more expensive options. But that's more a "me" thing, trying to keep it simple; when I'm actually retired and can travel whenever I want I'll probably try to evaluate the actual value of travel points. That's pretty good considering how much you can spend at Lowes....and now at the pump! I had discounted gas rewards as inconsequential, but even though we both work from home we still need to drive for errands, and that's becoming more significant!

citi card not only has no fee but we got 300 dollars each as a promo to take it .

we get 500 a month each on what ever catagory we choose that month to be our 5% .

so we can do 1k a month in groceries with our two cards

[Chuckanut]

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Originally Posted by mathjak107 I use the citi cash card for groceries which is 5% I use the chase sapphire reserve ,the chase freedom and freedom unlimited for everything else depending which has the better deals All the points Get multiplied by 50% when I transfer them to the sapphire and use it for travel via the chase Expedia portal .. I got 100,000 points for taking the sapphire, 20,000 for referring my wife for the sapphire preferred and she got 100,000 points for taking the preferred. So 220,000 points which get a 50% boost as we use it for travel. When my freedom card has 5% on groceries I use that instead of citi and then transfer it to my reserve for a 50% boost. We like traveling a lot , even if it is just local trips over night …

Those 5% cards can add up fast when used properly. I don't make a bit production of how to manage them, but the points do add up fast. The current 5% on gasoline from Discover card is useful at the moment. Normally, I use my 2% card for most purchases.

But sometimes, it's not just about the points. For example, I checked into a hotel room earlier this year for a week's stay using the hotel's affiliated card. The card gives me 'status'. I was upgraded from an ordinary room to what was basically a small one bedroom apartment. Very nice. And I got 5x points in their rewards program towards a free future room. (Note: I am not a big fan of rewards programs overall since they can devalue the points at will.)

[RetMD21]

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Maybe Fidelity does less that result in bashing. I mean, of course, every company (including Fidelity) can have someone who provides poor service. I also have accounts at Vanguard and Fidelity.

Fast Eddie has good customer service too. Fidelity is fine if you know what you are doing and avoid some of their funds. Whereas Fidelity will do what they can to increase revenue from customers, Vanguard tends to generally operate to benefit customer/owners. Vanguard is far from perfect and could use some customer service and technology upgrades.

[travelover]

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Originally Posted by RetMD21 Fast Eddie has good customer service too. .........

I guess it depends on how you define "good". They certainly are not fiduciaries.

[mathjak107]

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Originally Posted by RetMD21 Fast Eddie has good customer service too. Fidelity is fine if you know what you are doing and avoid some of their funds. Whereas Fidelity will do what they can to increase revenue from customers, Vanguard tends to generally operate to benefit customer/owners. Vanguard is far from perfect and could use some customer service and technology upgrades.

So will vanguard .

First vanguard tried to sell us all trusts we didn’t need when they deleted beneficiaries off our joint accounts .

Then the grand pappy of do it yourself investing , who told us we can beat the pros got in to managing money .

Next out comes their study showing how having your money managed can get you much better returns as do it yourself planning and poor investor behavior takes it toll .

Then they told us how great index funds are and now their advertising is promoting their managed funds and not indexing

[Helen]

I have an appointment next week with a Fido rep. I had one assigned to me that was horrible, so I had him removed as my account rep. I went through the list of reps to meet with and found two who had CFP credentials. I picked the one who used to work for Vanguard.

Jack Bogle is a hero of mine, but Vanguard's website leaves a lot to be desired IMO.

[purplesky]

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Originally Posted by mathjak107 So will vanguard . First vanguard tried to sell us all trusts we didn’t need when they deleted beneficiaries off our joint accounts . Then the grand pappy of do it yourself investing , who told us we can beat the pros got in to managing money . Next out comes their study showing how having your money managed can get you much better returns as do it yourself planning and poor investor behavior takes it toll . Then they told us how great index funds are and now their advertising is promoting their managed funds and not indexing

You are a victim of Vanguards success. Success that has made investing better for the average investor everywhere.

If you take a deep breath and step back and look at the big picture.
You would realize that you were part of a movement. But you got selfish and took Vanguards success personally when you helped create it.

Vanguard has something like $7.9 trillion in assets under management, and the number will get much larger.

You abandoned Vanguard. A company that is built to not make a profit.
You are not the only person on the planet who has experienced a long hold time on the phone. Let it go. lol

[travelover]

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Originally Posted by mathjak107 So will vanguard . First vanguard tried to sell us all trusts we didn’t need when they deleted beneficiaries off our joint accounts . Then the grand pappy of do it yourself investing , who told us we can beat the pros got in to managing money . Next out comes their study showing how having your money managed can get you much better returns as do it yourself planning and poor investor behavior takes it toll . Then they told us how great index funds are and now their advertising is promoting their managed funds and not indexing

[jazz4cash]

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Originally Posted by Helen I have an appointment next week with a Fido rep. I had one assigned to me that was horrible, so I had him removed as my account rep. I went through the list of reps to meet with and found two who had CFP credentials. I picked the one who used to work for Vanguard. Jack Bogle is a hero of mine, but Vanguard's website leaves a lot to be desired IMO.

Please post an update on your experience with the new rep. I am undecided if I should use the guy assigned to me or mostly ignore him. He seems to be hinting at using their paid advisory service. I’ve been bringing funds over to Fido but he seems unimpressed.

[Texas Proud]

An interesting article.... it is talking about the changes that are happening at Vanguard.


IMO it is real... I had great service many years ago, but it has declined over the last 5 or so years....


BTW, they always say 'you own the company' but do I really? Owning a Vanguard does not appear to be any different than any other find I have... I never get a check from them, just like my other funds... so it is a talking point of no importance...


Here is a part of the article.





This strain has manifested itself in two ways. One has been a decline in customer service. Whereas Vanguard executives once boasted that the company answered calls within three rings, complaints now abound about the difficulty of reaching company representatives. (Stated another friend, “I get prompt responses from Fidelity and Schwab, but with Vanguard I have waited on hold as long as 45 minutes.”) Customer-service surveys support the anecdotal evidence.






https://www.morningstar.com/articles...d-lost-its-way

[purplesky]

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud An interesting article.... it is talking about the changes that are happening at Vanguard. IMO it is real... I had great service many years ago, but it has declined over the last 5 or so years.... BTW, they always say 'you own the company' but do I really? Owning a Vanguard does not appear to be any different than any other find I have... I never get a check from them, just like my other funds... so it is a talking point of no importance... Here is a part of the article. This strain has manifested itself in two ways. One has been a decline in customer service. Whereas Vanguard executives once boasted that the company answered calls within three rings, complaints now abound about the difficulty of reaching company representatives. (Stated another friend, “I get prompt responses from Fidelity and Schwab, but with Vanguard I have waited on hold as long as 45 minutes.”) Customer-service surveys support the anecdotal evidence. https://www.morningstar.com/articles...d-lost-its-way

I have done the backdoor Roth, mega back door Roth, designated beneficiaries, found mailing info, updated personal and banking info, I bought 25 shares of VTI on FRI with a limit order on my phone, transferred bank funds on my phone, and blah blah blah. All in my Vanguard accounts not needing to speak on the phone with a Vanguard customer Rep.

I am sure Vanguard has struggled big time with not being to answer the phone in 3 minutes in 2022 but many other companies are experiencing the same problem

The baby boomers crying about being on hold for 45 minutes should switch to Schwab and Fidelity and call it a day.
Or call back Vanguard when the wait time is not 45 minutes. lol

The younger investors don't even want to call a 800 number at all.

The trillions of new dollars flowing into Vanguard creates a hard decision for Vanguard and the future of investing is not on a 800 number.

Just like Costco knows their ridiculously crowded gas pumps will sooner than later be electric charging stations.
So I am not leaving Costco now because of their success with low cost gasoline.

[youbet]

This is a bit of a fun thread. Personally, I don't see where it could make all that much difference whether you choose Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab. I'm very familiar with Schwab, somewhat familiar with Fidelity and not so familiar with Vanguard. (I'm talking Vanguard the brokerage house, not Vanguard funds. Two different things.)

I went with Schwab 30+ years ago because I wanted a B and M office nearby, access to all funds and most other investments (a full-service brokerage house), low costs and no pressure to be anything other than DIY. They've been OK. A few hassles here and there, but generally I'm pleased. Over half my assets at Schwab are in Vanguard funds.

I help the widow of a close friend monitor her investments. She's with Fidelity. Seems fine. I haven't had any issues with the advise she's been getting and she meets with them twice a year.

I recall that years ago, Vanguard was not where you wanted to be if you wanted a full service broker and did some trading outside of Vanguard funds. Then I noted they changed their structure and switched everyone to a brokerage account holding many funds and improved their performance as a full service brokerage house.

Other than the fact that I want a physical office nearby (for DW), I don't think I'd loose much, if anything, by moving to Vanguard. But I don't exercise their web site or phone lines, so only know what I read here.

Every place seems to have its pros and cons. It's amazing how defensive folks can get about their own brokerage house.