Vanguard - last straw?

[Midpack]

I had all our assets with Fido beginning in 1994 and moved everything to Vanguard in 2005, and I've noticed a decline in customer service, but all my equity & bond holdings are VG funds, and I rarely want any "service." There are endless complaints about current VG service online.

I wonder if they've decided you need to pay the 0.3% PAS fee to get decent service now, and nothing is free anymore? I used to have an assigned Flagship rep, then a team, and now it seems to be just whoever answers.

I have to believe the race to low and no expense funds, and the robo-advisor services, have pushed all the former traditional discount brokerages in this direction?

I'd hate to roll everything over to Fido or Schwab, especially since all my holding are VG funds - but I wouldn't rule it out...

[FWIW: I had to verify assets when we bought a house Summer of 2019, and it was no picnic to get Ally to provide documentation either, but we got it done.]

[target2019]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetiredHappy I wish someone had warned me about Vanguard when I created the other thread about moving our under management assets to Vanguard. After 2 weeks of nothing but endless 2 to 3 hours phone holds to agents not being able to do anything and their lack of understanding on how to set up sole trustees of separate properties, it has been nothing but a nightmare. I now have a user account without a user name and no account setup because they don't understand trusts. We just called Schwab yesterday and we are going to see the local Schwab person to facilitate account setup and transfers. Unfortunately after being on the phone for about 20 hours, my husband's IRA is in the process of being transferred to Vanguard and we could not stop it yesterday. We will do one more move from Vanguard to Schwab. We are DONE with Vanguard.

I think there may have been a few gentle pushes to Schwab in that thread. In any event, your move(s) will happen.

[RetiredHappy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by target2019 I think there may have been a few gentle pushes to Schwab in that thread. In any event, your move(s) will happen.

I am dense because you are all so polite!

[OldShooter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack ... I have to believe the race to low and no expense funds, and the robo-advisor services, have pushed all the former traditional discount brokerages in this direction? ...

I don't think we have seen the end of the impact of the fee wars. These companies have to make money. The old rule : "Quality, Price, Service -- pick any two." certainly applies. Schwab, for example, now sweeps balances into Schwab Bank instead of a MMF, paying a pittance in interest. Anecdotally, Fido seems to be pushing the fee services harder.

Schwab also seems to be trying to optimize income from the TDAmeritrade amateur traders. For many weeks now, there has been a full-page ad for their trading platform published in The Economist. I've never seen The Economist's rate card but I'll bet it is exciting.

[steelyman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack I had all our assets with Fido beginning in 1994 and moved everything to Vanguard in 2005, and I've noticed a decline in customer service, but all my equity & bond holdings are VG funds, and I rarely want any "service." There are endless complaints about current VG service online.

This has been my experience too although I still maintain accounts at both Fidelity and Vanguard. Vanguard was not an option for my 403(b) account so those funds were and still are at Fidelity. My first Roth IRA was opened at Vanguard in 1998 and I like having that long-time account open.

I don’t require much service or advice either.

I’d be curious about (but don’t expect) comments from anyone who’s worked at those firms about what it’s been like “on the inside”.

[jazz4cash]

We have a small IRA at VG holding ex employer 401k funds. Haven’t touched it in 15 yrs. in the past many months VG has started sending promo emails for their Portfolio Advisory Service with annoying frequency. I can’t believe they are pestering us over a small account. It feels like VG has lost the concept of value at a low cost and crossed over to just being cheap. Spending money to upgrade customer experience can reduce operating cost. I appreciate VG setting the bar so low on expense ratios.

[Sojourner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack I had all our assets with Fido beginning in 1994 and moved everything to Vanguard in 2005, and I've noticed a decline in customer service, but all my equity & bond holdings are VG funds, and I rarely want any "service." ... I'd hate to roll everything over to Fido or Schwab, especially since all my holding are VG funds - but I wouldn't rule it out...

+1

I have the majority of my assets at Vanguard, and I've needed "live" customer support assistance maybe three times in the past 10 years. Never felt it was particularly bad... just "average" or perhaps "somewhat above average". I honestly don't expect too much, considering the miniscule fees I'm being charged for my MFs and ETFs and the fact that, in my account, Vanguard makes $0/year from things like trading fees, etc.

[VanWinkle]

I tried to open a UTMA for my 9 month old great niece at Vanguard online. Function not available. Called them and they advised wait a week and try again. I did that, no success. Sent a private message(still available to Flagships accounts) advising of the problem. Message came back that it was all fixed now, ok to open account. I went back in, typed in all the information needed again, same lame message came back. I opened at Fidelity the same day with no issues. I can relate with your frustration and wish you good luck wherever you decide to invest.

VW

[mountainsoft]

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Originally Posted by ChicagoGal I just needed my last two statements (July and August) from Vanguard. I went online and for some reason, there is no July statement.

That's one of the reasons I always download a copy of my statements each month (investments, cable bills, insurance, checking, savings, etc.) and keep them on my own computer (with multiple backups). I know some people don't bother saying "I can just look online if I need it", but my experience has been like yours. Either I can't get access to the statements, or some are missing. This seems to apply everywhere, not just Vanguard. Plus, you never know when internet access will be down, either your own ISP or the server you are trying to connect to.

I used to scan paper statements and save them, so downloading an electronic statement is so much easier now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoGal I don't know if any other company is better. I'm generally pretty self-sufficient so rarely need personal help. But I think at this point, I'll probably move my brokerage account to Fidelity as well.

I've been with Vanguard since 2016 when I moved my IRA from my local bank. Like you, I tend to be self-sufficient and can't recall ever needing to contact Vanguard for anything. I have no experience with any other brokers, and so far haven't had a reason to switch. The Vanguard web site can be a bit confusing for some operations, but as long as I can accomplish what I want I don't mind. I'm still in the accumulation stage, so hopefully things don't become a problem when we start withdrawing for retirement.

In some ways, I like the old "Tried and True". Even if the web site is clunky at least I know how to get things done. My local bank seems to update their web site every couple years and I have to learn how to use it all over again. Their "improvements" seem to get more and more complicated, not easier.

If you have all of your other accounts with Fidelity, I would probably move the brokerage account there also. Just for the simplicity of one place to deal with if nothing else.

Otherwise, I wouldn't make a switch just for a single problem or two. All companies have issues and customer support sucks just about anywhere these days. Of course, if it becomes a pattern, then yes find greener pastures.

[target2019]

Quote:

Originally Posted by target2019 I think there may have been a few gentle pushes to Schwab in that thread. In any event, your move(s) will happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetiredHappy I am densed because you are all so polite!

There are many roads to Dublin. Who am I to argue that your path isn't better?

[sengsational]

I have a Roth brokerage account at Vanguard with individual stocks. They've been good from a readable statement perspective (can't say that for Fidelity, where the statements are so goofy as to indicate they're trying to make it harder than it is). As to the phone support, I only had one instance in the last many years where I thought calling was needed. I called, talked to a person that seemed to have a brain, which is more than I can say for almost all other call centers I'm often forced to deal with. He did start reading the online thing, but at least he stopped when I told him I'd exhausted the online info, which is what precipitated the call. And when I asked my question again, this time with two or three possible reasons, he was able to pick one, and give a reason. I've only got the smallish account at Vanguard, but it would take a horrible gaffe to get me to move...I doubt we'd have the low/no fee competition if it weren't for Vanguard, so want to keep them in business

[statsman]

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Originally Posted by njhowie Fidelity is better...

Maybe for this particular issue, but in general, I have been less than impressed with Fidelity regarding my DW's 401(k) and subsequent transfer to an IRA with them. I didn't think it was possible to be as bad as the previous 401(k) company, but Fidelity did it for DW. The comment about the grass not always being greener is spot on.

[yakers]

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Originally Posted by Ready But I find the original request of a letter to be very odd. I’ve applied for many mortgages and providing several months of statements showing balances has always been sufficient. I’ve never heard of anyone asking for a customer letter from a financial institution. Those types of request are a major PITA. The lenders must know this by now so the fact that they asked for it makes me think they are as much of a problem as Vanguard.

+1
Did a few real estate transactions, statements were always enough.

I have OK service from VG, just had a RMD/QCD check reissues over the phone, went well.

[Scrapr]

I'm going to go against the flow here....and maybe VG service has gotten worse in the last 2.5 years. My late wife & I set up Trusts while she was in hospice. I called VG & started the process. A couple accounts were titled slightly incorrectly. The rep walked me through the changes. It really helped that my wife was able to voice verify her accounts. It took about 4 days or so to get the Trust accounts set up & transferred. The rep called every day at close of business (he was in Phoenix) Based on the problems I suspect the rep went up the food chain a couple times. My wife passed 4 days after the Trusts were funded

He really went above & beyond

(ymmv)

[rk911]

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Originally Posted by Aerides We have most of our stuff with Fido, and I agree, their service is very good. I always get someone helpful on the phone, and they never rush you. And we have a physical branch about 15 mins away so it's nice knowing I have that option if/when needed. I also really like Fido's FullView to see everything at a glance. That said, VTSAX has been very good to me as well.

we've had very spotty support from Fidelity. my wife just inherited several accounts from her brother...both retirememt and taxable accounts. the support we've received with the retirement accounts was phenominal. the support in getting the other accounts transfered was horrible to the point where she is considering moving those accounts out of fidelity.

[Katsmeow]

I do find the mortgage broker request for a letter odd. When we refinanced last year part of the income relied upon a monthly withdrawal from an IRA. We had to provide statements and information showing that the monthly withdrawal had been set up and I think had been withdrawn for 1 or 2 months (don't recall which). But, I just went and downloaded all the info I needed. I also did this when we obtained prior mortgages. I've done that both at Vanguard and Fidelity.

We have stuff at Fidelity and Vanguard. For a long time we had most everything at Vanguard when they were cheaper. But I wasn't entirely happy with their website. When my former employer's 401(k) was terminated and was rolled over to an IRA at Fidelity I decided to keep much of it at Fidelity.

Fidelity service has been fine. One person did give me incorrect information dealing with transferring an account. However, she transferred me to the department that actually does the transfers and they were clear she was wrong and explained why.

My interactions with Vanguard have been rare, mostly OK although not stellar. One reason I've kept Vanguard even though I don't like their website is that I have a good bit of Wellesley (which I still like) and don't know how complicated it would be to get it elsewhere. Have thought about transferring to Schwab. Would rarely if ever need to go in a physical office but nice to have option.

[teejayevans]

When my father died my mother had to call Vanguard to change the ownership and beneficiaries on the accounts. She said it took over an hour, probably took half of time just to get her to upload the death certificate. I’m sure it would have gone faster if I was there but I give them high marks for service and patience.

[ChicagoGal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready But I find the original request of a letter to be very odd. I’ve applied for many mortgages and providing several months of statements showing balances has always been sufficient. I’ve never heard of anyone asking for a customer letter from a financial institution. Those types of request are a major PITA. The lenders must know this by now so the fact that they asked for it makes me think they are as much of a problem as Vanguard.

The letter was very odd. Sidetrack here: They wanted a letter that said I intended to withdraw $6K/month from my brokerage account as a substitute for income. I didn't actually have to make the withdrawal, just say that I intended to (both my broker and I thought it was ridiculous, but worth a shot if that's what the underwriters wanted). I absolutely expected them to say no, and that would have been fine. What I didn't expect was to say first that I had to call, then I got a "maybe" on the phone and then got the email saying I had to call to request the letter.

My issue was with the service aspect, not the result of the request. Getting forced into a full mailbox and disconnected on the next call just confirmed my frustration.

[Midpack]

Mortgage companies always ask for proof of income, it would be irresponsible and a big PITA for sellers, realtors and mortgage companies if they didn't. For retirees with little to no income from outside sources (e.g. we have ZERO outside income), it only makes sense for a mortgage company to ask for proof of assets as an alternative.

[Katsmeow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoGal The letter was very odd. Sidetrack here: They wanted a letter that said I intended to withdraw $6K/month from my brokerage account as a substitute for income. I didn't actually have to make the withdrawal, just say that I intended to (both my broker and I thought it was ridiculous, but worth a shot if that's what the underwriters wanted). I absolutely expected them to say no, and that would have been fine. What I didn't expect was to say first that I had to call, then I got a "maybe" on the phone and then got the email saying I had to call to request the letter. My issue was with the service aspect, not the result of the request. Getting forced into a full mailbox and disconnected on the next call just confirmed my frustration.

Were you taking the income from an IRA or from a non-retirement account. For those taking from IRA it is easy to print out something showing you have set up the withdrawals. I could see it being different if it was coming out of a non-retirement account.