Vanguard - last straw?

[jazz4cash]

We have a small IRA at VG holding ex employer 401k funds. Haven’t touched it in 15 yrs. in the past many months VG has started sending promo emails for their Portfolio Advisory Service with annoying frequency. I can’t believe they are pestering us over a small account. It feels like VG has lost the concept of value at a low cost and crossed over to just being cheap. Spending money to upgrade customer experience can reduce operating cost. I appreciate VG setting the bar so low on expense ratios.

 

[Sojourner]

I had all our assets with Fido beginning in 1994 and moved everything to Vanguard in 2005, and I've noticed a decline in customer service, but all my equity & bond holdings are VG funds, and I rarely want any "service."
...
I'd hate to roll everything over to Fido or Schwab, especially since all my holding are VG funds - but I wouldn't rule it out...

+1

I have the majority of my assets at Vanguard, and I've needed "live" customer support assistance maybe three times in the past 10 years. Never felt it was particularly bad... just "average" or perhaps "somewhat above average". I honestly don't expect too much, considering the miniscule fees I'm being charged for my MFs and ETFs and the fact that, in my account, Vanguard makes $0/year from things like trading fees, etc.

 

[VanWinkle]

I tried to open a UTMA for my 9 month old great niece at Vanguard online. Function not available. Called them and they advised wait a week and try again. I did that, no success. Sent a private message(still available to Flagships accounts) advising of the problem. Message came back that it was all fixed now, ok to open account. I went back in, typed in all the information needed again, same lame message came back. I opened at Fidelity the same day with no issues. I can relate with your frustration and wish you good luck wherever you decide to invest.

VW

 

[mountainsoft]

I just needed my last two statements (July and August) from Vanguard. I went online and for some reason, there is no July statement.

That's one of the reasons I always download a copy of my statements each month (investments, cable bills, insurance, checking, savings, etc.) and keep them on my own computer (with multiple backups). I know some people don't bother saying "I can just look online if I need it", but my experience has been like yours. Either I can't get access to the statements, or some are missing. This seems to apply everywhere, not just Vanguard. Plus, you never know when internet access will be down, either your own ISP or the server you are trying to connect to.

I used to scan paper statements and save them, so downloading an electronic statement is so much easier now...

I don't know if any other company is better. I'm generally pretty self-sufficient so rarely need personal help. But I think at this point, I'll probably move my brokerage account to Fidelity as well.

I've been with Vanguard since 2016 when I moved my IRA from my local bank. Like you, I tend to be self-sufficient and can't recall ever needing to contact Vanguard for anything. I have no experience with any other brokers, and so far haven't had a reason to switch. The Vanguard web site can be a bit confusing for some operations, but as long as I can accomplish what I want I don't mind. I'm still in the accumulation stage, so hopefully things don't become a problem when we start withdrawing for retirement.

In some ways, I like the old "Tried and True". Even if the web site is clunky at least I know how to get things done. My local bank seems to update their web site every couple years and I have to learn how to use it all over again. Their "improvements" seem to get more and more complicated, not easier.

If you have all of your other accounts with Fidelity, I would probably move the brokerage account there also. Just for the simplicity of one place to deal with if nothing else.

Otherwise, I wouldn't make a switch just for a single problem or two. All companies have issues and customer support sucks just about anywhere these days. Of course, if it becomes a pattern, then yes find greener pastures.

 

[target2019]

I think there may have been a few gentle pushes to Schwab in that thread. In any event, your move(s) will happen.

I am densed because you are all so polite!

There are many roads to Dublin. Who am I to argue that your path isn't better?

 

[sengsational]

I have a Roth brokerage account at Vanguard with individual stocks. They've been good from a readable statement perspective (can't say that for Fidelity, where the statements are so goofy as to indicate they're trying to make it harder than it is). As to the phone support, I only had one instance in the last many years where I thought calling was needed. I called, talked to a person that seemed to have a brain, which is more than I can say for almost all other call centers I'm often forced to deal with. He did start reading the online thing, but at least he stopped when I told him I'd exhausted the online info, which is what precipitated the call. And when I asked my question again, this time with two or three possible reasons, he was able to pick one, and give a reason. I've only got the smallish account at Vanguard, but it would take a horrible gaffe to get me to move...I doubt we'd have the low/no fee competition if it weren't for Vanguard, so want to keep them in business

 

[statsman]

Fidelity is better...

Maybe for this particular issue, but in general, I have been less than impressed with Fidelity regarding my DW's 401(k) and subsequent transfer to an IRA with them. I didn't think it was possible to be as bad as the previous 401(k) company, but Fidelity did it for DW. The comment about the grass not always being greener is spot on.

 

[yakers]

But I find the original request of a letter to be very odd. I’ve applied for many mortgages and providing several months of statements showing balances has always been sufficient. I’ve never heard of anyone asking for a customer letter from a financial institution. Those types of request are a major PITA. The lenders must know this by now so the fact that they asked for it makes me think they are as much of a problem as Vanguard.

+1
Did a few real estate transactions, statements were always enough.

I have OK service from VG, just had a RMD/QCD check reissues over the phone, went well.

 

[Scrapr]

I'm going to go against the flow here....and maybe VG service has gotten worse in the last 2.5 years. My late wife & I set up Trusts while she was in hospice. I called VG & started the process. A couple accounts were titled slightly incorrectly. The rep walked me through the changes. It really helped that my wife was able to voice verify her accounts. It took about 4 days or so to get the Trust accounts set up & transferred. The rep called every day at close of business (he was in Phoenix) Based on the problems I suspect the rep went up the food chain a couple times. My wife passed 4 days after the Trusts were funded

He really went above & beyond

(ymmv)

 

[rk911]

We have most of our stuff with Fido, and I agree, their service is very good. I always get someone helpful on the phone, and they never rush you. And we have a physical branch about 15 mins away so it's nice knowing I have that option if/when needed.

I also really like Fido's FullView to see everything at a glance.

That said, VTSAX has been very good to me as well.

we've had very spotty support from Fidelity. my wife just inherited several accounts from her brother...both retirememt and taxable accounts. the support we've received with the retirement accounts was phenominal. the support in getting the other accounts transfered was horrible to the point where she is considering moving those accounts out of fidelity.

 

[Katsmeow]

I do find the mortgage broker request for a letter odd. When we refinanced last year part of the income relied upon a monthly withdrawal from an IRA. We had to provide statements and information showing that the monthly withdrawal had been set up and I think had been withdrawn for 1 or 2 months (don't recall which). But, I just went and downloaded all the info I needed. I also did this when we obtained prior mortgages. I've done that both at Vanguard and Fidelity.

We have stuff at Fidelity and Vanguard. For a long time we had most everything at Vanguard when they were cheaper. But I wasn't entirely happy with their website. When my former employer's 401(k) was terminated and was rolled over to an IRA at Fidelity I decided to keep much of it at Fidelity.

Fidelity service has been fine. One person did give me incorrect information dealing with transferring an account. However, she transferred me to the department that actually does the transfers and they were clear she was wrong and explained why.

My interactions with Vanguard have been rare, mostly OK although not stellar. One reason I've kept Vanguard even though I don't like their website is that I have a good bit of Wellesley (which I still like) and don't know how complicated it would be to get it elsewhere. Have thought about transferring to Schwab. Would rarely if ever need to go in a physical office but nice to have option.

 

[teejayevans]

When my father died my mother had to call Vanguard to change the ownership and beneficiaries on the accounts. She said it took over an hour, probably took half of time just to get her to upload the death certificate. I’m sure it would have gone faster if I was there but I give them high marks for service and patience.

 

[ChicagoGal]

But I find the original request of a letter to be very odd. I’ve applied for many mortgages and providing several months of statements showing balances has always been sufficient. I’ve never heard of anyone asking for a customer letter from a financial institution. Those types of request are a major PITA. The lenders must know this by now so the fact that they asked for it makes me think they are as much of a problem as Vanguard.

The letter was very odd. Sidetrack here: They wanted a letter that said I intended to withdraw $6K/month from my brokerage account as a substitute for income. I didn't actually have to make the withdrawal, just say that I intended to (both my broker and I thought it was ridiculous, but worth a shot if that's what the underwriters wanted). I absolutely expected them to say no, and that would have been fine. What I didn't expect was to say first that I had to call, then I got a "maybe" on the phone and then got the email saying I had to call to request the letter.

My issue was with the service aspect, not the result of the request. Getting forced into a full mailbox and disconnected on the next call just confirmed my frustration.

 

[Midpack]

Mortgage companies always ask for proof of income, it would be irresponsible and a big PITA for sellers, realtors and mortgage companies if they didn't. For retirees with little to no income from outside sources (e.g. we have ZERO outside income), it only makes sense for a mortgage company to ask for proof of assets as an alternative.

 

[Katsmeow]

The letter was very odd. Sidetrack here: They wanted a letter that said I intended to withdraw $6K/month from my brokerage account as a substitute for income. I didn't actually have to make the withdrawal, just say that I intended to (both my broker and I thought it was ridiculous, but worth a shot if that's what the underwriters wanted). I absolutely expected them to say no, and that would have been fine. What I didn't expect was to say first that I had to call, then I got a "maybe" on the phone and then got the email saying I had to call to request the letter.

My issue was with the service aspect, not the result of the request. Getting forced into a full mailbox and disconnected on the next call just confirmed my frustration.

Were you taking the income from an IRA or from a non-retirement account. For those taking from IRA it is easy to print out something showing you have set up the withdrawals. I could see it being different if it was coming out of a non-retirement account.

 

[ChicagoGal]

Mortgage companies always ask for proof of income, it would be irresponsible and a big PITA for sellers, realtors and mortgage companies if they didn't. For retirees with little to no income from outside sources (e.g. we have ZERO outside income), it only makes sense for a mortgage company to ask for proof of assets as an alternative.

Totally get that. I worked in banking operations for 28 years. It wasn't proof of assets they were asking for - they had that with the statements I provided. It was proof that I was going to take a certain amount of income from those assets. And a confirmation of an automatic withdrawal wasn't enough - it needed to be a letter.

Were you taking the income from an IRA or from a non-retirement account. For those taking from IRA it is easy to print out something showing you have set up the withdrawals. I could see it being different if it was coming out of a non-retirement account.

They wouldn't consider retirement assets, just non-retirement. And as noted above, confirmation of the auto-withdrawal wasn't what they were looking for. Doesn't make sense to me.

In any case, the original intent of this post wasn't the actual request, it was how the request was handled.

 

[target2019]

Schwab website produces a Balance Letter on demand for any of the accounts we hold there. It includes an average balance for a period you pick between 2-12 months.

 

[Out of Steam]

As to no July statement, if your brokerage account did not have any activity for July there would not be a statement.

I had this problem with a Capital One account recently. I ended up making a small transfer from the account to assure that there would be a statement for the following month.

 

[Midpack]

Totally get that. I worked in banking operations for 28 years. It wasn't proof of assets they were asking for - they had that with the statements I provided. It was proof that I was going to take a certain amount of income from those assets. And a confirmation of an automatic withdrawal wasn't enough - it needed to be a letter.

OK, I didn't catch that. Not sure how any letter could actually force you to withdraw from your assets if you decided not to, but I don't doubt your story. In our case they just wanted written proof we had the assets to pay for the house.

 

[teejayevans]

The letter was very odd. Sidetrack here: They wanted a letter that said I intended to withdraw $6K/month from my brokerage account as a substitute for income. I didn't actually have to make the withdrawal, just say that I intended to (both my broker and I thought it was ridiculous, but worth a shot if that's what the underwriters wanted).
My issue was with the service aspect, not the result of the request. Getting forced into a full mailbox and disconnected on the next call just confirmed my frustration.

I had same problem, except the full mailbox/disconnect, I ended up just sending them the confirmation pdf I downloaded off the website.
I used the Voyager phone number if it matters.

 

[Ncc1701]

Unless you frequently buy the Admiral shares of actively managed Vanguard funds, there isn't a recent to keep assets there. Once you have $1M+ at Schwab (not sure about Fidelity) you can request that Vanguard purchase fees be waived. If you do want to purchase an actively managed Admiral share which Schwab and Fido can't do, then keep an account at Vanguard and submit an ACAT transfer to Fido or Schwab online immediately after purchase. The transfer is free.

 

[Katsmeow]

They wouldn't consider retirement assets, just non-retirement. And as noted above, confirmation of the auto-withdrawal wasn't what they were looking for. Doesn't make sense to me.

In any case, the original intent of this post wasn't the actual request, it was how the request was handled.

I know the intent of your post wasn't the actual request, but various people read these threads so I did want to comment on this briefly.

I now realize that you are not talking about withdrawals from an IRA. I found your initial post here which indicated you were 51 in 2014. So you are below 59 1/2 right now. Often when people are talking about using structured withdrawals from an account to take a mortgage they have set up a monthly withdrawal from an IRA. Those withdrawals can be used to meet income qualification requirements for a mortgage. Those are usually proved simply by downloading the information about how much is being withdrawn. I've qualified for 3 different mortgages doing this.

For people under retirement age, it is a little more complicated. (Some people can look into an asset depletion loan). I realize that is not the topic of your original post but wanted to make sure for the readers of this thread that they realize that some people are talking about monthly IRA withdrawals but your situation is different which is undoubtedly why you were being asked for information that is not typical for the older retiree withdrawing from an IRA.

 

[teejayevans]

In related news: when I open my VG app this morning it post a notification that a new app is coming. Ooohhhhhh nnooooo!
I don’t want to sound like the guy that looks fondly of good old days, but I tried their Beacon app and thought it was terrible. I just get to where I know how to do everything and now they’re going to change it?!

 

[target2019]

Just made a SEP-IRA withdrawal from Vanguard to my external checking. It will take 3-5 days electronic transfer. That is fine with me. The interface is definitely simpler than Schwab, so I see some of the VG attraction, at least in this one transfer.

 

[RunningBum]

^^
That relates to a point that discourages me from doing a transfer out of VG. For good or for bad, I've learn how to do all of the things I need to do at Vanguard. I have my HSA at Fidelity, and it took a while for me to figure out how to exchange some shares in one fun to a new fun. Last year I was helping someone out on Schwab and found it hard to find a simple index fund I wanted to use. Maybe their interfaces are bad, or maybe it'd be easy enough for me to adapt, but they aren't immediately intuitive.