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09-01-2022, 11:13 AM
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#461
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phroig
One dumb feature of Vanguard’s mutual fund platform is once you enter a trade (or even a $ transfer), you can’t cancel it. Is this also the case with their brokerage?
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Stock executions are in seconds how are you going to cancel. Does Schwab allow that
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09-01-2022, 11:20 AM
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#462
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Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 23
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Vanguard - last straw?
In my experience with the brokerage platform, mutual fund orders could be cancelled but only if done earlier in the day. Don’t know the exact cutoff time but it was early afternoon for me. That was frustrating as I am able to cancel up until 4:00 eastern at Fidelity.
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09-01-2022, 11:40 AM
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#463
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetMD21
Stock executions are in seconds how are you going to cancel. Does Schwab allow that
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I was asking about mutual funds; you can’t trade equities on the mutual fund platform. Nassa answered my question - thanks!
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09-01-2022, 04:47 PM
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#464
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 17,899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetMD21
If you don't want to move to the new platform at Vanguard you could just move to another broker
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I've considered it but I would guess it is much more "work" and hassle than to let it ride and play their silly little game.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -
Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
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09-01-2022, 05:48 PM
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#465
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,968
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I wouldn't stay with a broker that plays silly little games. Dump them.
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09-01-2022, 06:47 PM
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#466
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 5,316
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Vanguard is not playing a silly game. The old mutual fund platform is outdated and based on very old software. Someday soon it will probably crash and not be fixable. Why would anyone want to stay on a platform that is outdated and might crash in the near future? The only thing I think Vanguard has done wrong is that they did not say you must move your account by a certain date or it will be moved for you.
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09-01-2022, 08:53 PM
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#467
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 17,899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harllee
Vanguard is not playing a silly game. The old mutual fund platform is outdated and based on very old software. Someday soon it will probably crash and not be fixable. Why would anyone want to stay on a platform that is outdated and might crash in the near future? The only thing I think Vanguard has done wrong is that they did not say you must move your account by a certain date or it will be moved for you.
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Yeah, I'm sure that's it.
Not sure why they couldn't just say that.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -
Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
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09-02-2022, 06:44 AM
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#468
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harllee
The old mutual fund platform is outdated and based on very old software. Someday soon it will probably crash and not be fixable. Why would anyone want to stay on a platform that is outdated and might crash in the near future? The only thing I think Vanguard has done wrong is that they did not say you must move your account by a certain date or it will be moved for you.
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IDK if they can force people to switch since it involves opening a brokerage account and SEC has requirements. See this from FINRA https://www.finra.org/investors/lear...kerage-account
I would be fine with Vanguard telling people that they are closing the old platform Jan 1 2023 and any remaining investments will be cashed out and
the proceeds mailed to the account owner. Can you image the complaints?
Of course Vanguard's customer service and IT problems may make it impossible for some people to switch in a timely manner.
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09-02-2022, 06:51 AM
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#469
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 5,316
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If the $20 fee is not enough to force people to switch to the new platform then maybe Vanguard will have to up the penalty for not switching--$100, Then $200, then $500, etc.
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09-02-2022, 07:00 AM
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#470
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
My best guess:
Advantage to them - migrate away from an outdated legacy system
Advantage to you - avoid a $20/yr per fund fee
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The $20/yr per fund only applies to accounts with balances less than $1,000,000.
I called VG about this yesterday and they told me it is not mandatory that customers switch to the brokerage account and there is no date that it must be done by. However, accounts with less than $1,000,000 will be charged $20/yr per fund after 9/30/22.
And yes, their phone service is terrible. Got two different answers from three different associates until I got a supervisor that actually seemed to have a clue. VG has gone down hill, big time. Seriously considering moving everything elsewhere, not because of the brokerage account business, but because you wait on hold forever and chances are the person that eventually answers just guesses with answers, and when you challenge their answers , they say yea, maybe you are right. Doh!
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09-02-2022, 07:11 AM
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#471
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,723
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I'm on the brokerage platform. I can put in a limit order and cancel it later, as long as nobody grabbed it.
But the reason I'm annoyed is that sometimes I get the lipstick on a pig version of the web site, and sometimes I get the traditional, comfortable version.
I think I understand why companies feel compelled to constantly tweak their web presence... it's because of people that think "oh, modern look, must not be COBOL" hehehe
It's bad enough they're all changing their pages all the time, but just do it and get it over with!
I notice every change, even the slightest changes, because it breaks my page scraper. So now I have added lipstick logic, which might be the last straw.
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09-02-2022, 08:29 AM
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#472
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomatlast
The $20/yr per fund only applies to accounts with balances less than $1,000,000.
I called VG about this yesterday and they told me it is not mandatory that customers switch to the brokerage account and there is no date that it must be done by. However, accounts with less than $1,000,000 will be charged $20/yr per fund after 9/30/22.
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I suspect that the $1,000,000 must be in mutual fund style of accounts for the fee waiver to engage.
I have over 1M in brokerage accounts at VG and received letters stating the fees would not apply to each of the brokerage accounts.
I have between 100k and 1M in the legacy mutual fund accounts and received letters specific to all of these accounts that $20 for each would be assessed.
I figure I will stay on the sidelines for one year, pay the fees, and watch how it plays out. I am particularly concerned about loosing historical fund data (ie transactions and statements) if a MF account is closed/transferred/converted etc.
-gauss
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09-02-2022, 08:40 AM
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#473
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 498
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Vanguard - last straw?
I’m also holding out (haven’t received the email yet). If I’m forced to switch, I’ll probably stay with Vanguard. I’m with them for their (gasp!) managed funds. (I also own VTSAX and VTIAX - my largest holdings.)
Index funds/ETFs, I can get anywhere. What I can’t get elsewhere (at least without significant fees) is equity funds managed by the likes of Primecap and Wellington with expense ratios of 0.2-0.3%, and even cheaper municipal bond funds and great MMFs.
Meanwhile, I like the Dec. YTD statements I get on the old platform, and I don’t intend to trade, so I don’t need a brokerage account.
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09-02-2022, 08:55 AM
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#474
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phroig
... I like the Dec. YTD statements I get on the old platform,
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+100 to that.
In general I will be forced to switch from downloading and retaining one statement per year per account (as is possible on the current MF platform) to 12 monthly statements per account. Would be very interested in a brokerage YTD statement option if Vanguard were to offer it.
-gauss
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09-02-2022, 11:40 AM
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#475
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 5,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phroig
I’m also holding out (haven’t received the email yet). If I’m forced to switch, I’ll probably stay with Vanguard. I’m with them for their (gasp!) managed funds. (I also own VTSAX and VTIAX - my largest holdings.)
Index funds/ETFs, I can get anywhere. What I can’t get elsewhere (at least without significant fees) is equity funds managed by the likes of Primecap and Wellington with expense ratios of 0.2-0.3%, and even cheaper municipal bond funds and great MMFs.
Meanwhile, I like the Dec. YTD statements I get on the old platform, and I don’t intend to trade, so I don’t need a brokerage account.
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Aren't you concerned that the old platform (which I think is still on Cobol programming) crashes and is unfixable and you can't even get into your account?
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09-02-2022, 11:45 AM
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#476
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 11,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sengsational
I'm on the brokerage platform. I can put in a limit order and cancel it later, as long as nobody grabbed it.
But the reason I'm annoyed is that sometimes I get the lipstick on a pig version of the web site, and sometimes I get the traditional, comfortable version.
I think I understand why companies feel compelled to constantly tweak their web presence... it's because of people that think "oh, modern look, must not be COBOL" hehehe
It's bad enough they're all changing their pages all the time, but just do it and get it over with!
I notice every change, even the slightest changes, because it breaks my page scraper. So now I have added lipstick logic, which might be the last straw.
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Their UI has been undergoing a slow roll change for about 3 years now. In the last 4 weeks or so, they have been moving people in chunks to an even newer UI. If you haven't gotten it yet, you're in for a surprise (not necessarily in a good way either).
But just as you say, Sengsational, even if you get the newest of the new UIs, click on a link for something and there's a good chance you get thrown into the old user experience.
I'd say this is one of the poorest website changes I've ever seen.
__________________
Retired Class of 2018
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09-02-2022, 07:39 PM
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#477
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 597
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When I go to Vanguard I see a mixture of old and new formats. The worst is when I look at a mutual fund, I just did that to see the interest rate of the Money Market Fund. Balances and holdings changed yesterday from the old to the new format but honestly that new format is not a problem. When I look at or buy Treasuries it still looks as it has since May when I first started to look at those. I have not looked at the cost basis screen lately. I really don't look at much on Vanguard other than the balances and holdings for my 3 accounts.
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09-02-2022, 07:48 PM
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#478
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 11,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graybeard
When I go to Vanguard I see a mixture of old and new formats. The worst is when I look at a mutual fund, I just did that to see the interest rate of the Money Market Fund. Balances and holdings changed yesterday from the old to the new format but honestly that new format is not a problem. When I look at or buy Treasuries it still looks as it has since May when I first started to look at those. I have not looked at the cost basis screen lately. I really don't look at much on Vanguard other than the balances and holdings for my 3 accounts.
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The whole fixed income section is still the old UI. Get this, there's a session timeout bug that will log you out if you are only in the fixed income section. Apparently "activity" only counts in the new UI.
Oh, and they took away the market indices summary in the new UI.
It's really a mess
__________________
Retired Class of 2018
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09-03-2022, 05:36 AM
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#479
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Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 23
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Vanguard - last straw?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nassa
For those thinking of changing brokers, just a heads up on a little wrinkle I experienced recently transferring assets from Vanguard to Fidelity.
I did a full transfer of my brokerage account earlier this month. I continued to have access to my account with a zero balance until this morning. When I logged in, I had no account and no account history, at all. Luckily, I had downloaded the important account records before the transfer. However, it made me uneasy to lose complete access to my taxable account history going back years so I called Vanguard and was passed through to the right department that instructed me on how to send a “rescind letter” via fax or USPS to keep my account open. This has to be received by VG within 60 days in order to re-open the account.
The representative was helpful and I suggested he submit feedback that clients should receive notification of closure prior to Vanguard acting on their own, which he said he would.
So, for those thinking of transferring, I suggest downloading the statements and transaction history you think you might need down the road prior to the transfer. Or, don’t do a full transfer as I did so some money is left remaining in your accounts.
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I’m following up on my earlier post after submitting a rescind letter to Vanguard to keep my account open. My account has been fully restored with a zero balance and includes transaction history, statements, realized gains/losses and distribution history.
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09-03-2022, 07:46 AM
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#480
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,723
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Concerning the continuity issues, if financial companies were compelled to provide customers with complete financial data (not just hard copy or printable files like PDF), it would be beneficial to customers. Like cell phone companies were compelled to allow you to change carriers without loosing your phone number, we shouldn't be locked in for fear of not having transaction history.
There is no reason why Vanguard or any other investment house couldn't provide machine readable historical data. It could be signed with a Vanguard private key so customers could prove that it's exactly what came from Vanguard. If the account was transferred, they could send a complete record of the account to the receiving financial house. Then I woke up, lol!
Here's my rant about Fidelity, in case you want more about statements: https://www.early-retirement.org/for...ml#post2686270
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