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Old 11-23-2021, 07:56 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by OldShooter View Post
I think we have apples and oranges here. I interpreted @overthinkmuch's comment to refer to the recent eliminations of trading fees, not to low mutual fund fees where VG led for years.

Re "invented" my recollection from reading is that Wells Fargo gets credit for the index fund idea. One version I have read says that Rex Sinquefield was part of that. Later, he and David Booth went on to found DFA and to get very rich. I think that Bogle was possibly the first to offer an index fund to the public, mid 1970s, and it was an initial flop. A couple of histories Google just gave me: https://www.getrichslowly.org/history-of-index-funds/ and https://www.investmentnews.com/the-s...al-funds-69099
+1
It's mentioned but extremely important in 1960s, the date of the original unmanaged fund papers, the systems to make this happen didn't exist. Funds were extremely expensive to just to own as until the late 60s the ownership was tracked manually via spreadsheets. Cheaper ownership came as the industry added more systems to automate their business. In my career I saw many changes in how all fund companies serviced their customers.

Maybe we could go back to 1970 and enjoy the great services offered and see what it's like to walk uphill to work both ways in the snow while battling record heat waves.

If you asked a question about your investments and there wasn't immediately an answer from the limited data available your request went to "research" where people would comb through microfilm to try finding your paperwork. Maybe your paperwork was filmed and maybe it was lost.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:02 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by MRG View Post
+1
It's mentioned but extremely important in 1960s, the date of the original unmanaged fund papers, the systems to make this happen didn't exist. Funds were extremely expensive to just to own as until the late 60s the ownership was tracked manually via spreadsheets. Cheaper ownership came as the industry added more systems to automate their business. In my career I saw many changes in how all fund companies serviced their customers.
My head just exploded when I imagined a smokey room filled with clerks at open desks, all with a big old paper spreadsheet in front of them along with the handy manual calculating machine.

Spreadsheet means paper! Ahhhh!

More pictures like this one below to tickle your imagination. https://www.vintag.es/2018/05/office...and-1960s.html

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Old 11-24-2021, 07:04 AM   #123
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My recollection was that Schwab was the leader there and that VG was late to the party. Some Googling gave me this:
Tuesday October 1, 2019: Schwab goes to zero, followed a couple of hours later by TDAmeritrade (https://www.npr.org/2019/10/01/76611...oward-the-norm)

October 2: Etrade follows.

October 10: Fido follows. (https://www.npr.org/2019/10/01/76611...oward-the-norm)

January 2, 2020: Vanguard follows. (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wire...ading-68035212)
VG and Jack Bogle deserve a lot of credit for offering low-cost mutual funds but in this case they appear to have been an also-ran.
Wow, thanks for the correction - that is what I meant, and I was wrong about it.

Luckily I've already thanked Schwab by moving 1/10th of my assets there. Specifically Schwab International, which supports people with foreign addresses.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:07 AM   #124
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Except Vanguard wasn't first..........
My apologies, I was wrong about that.

I only had a Vanguard account at the time, and this move fit with their overall lowering of costs. I think the article also mislead me, quoting something about this being such a small part of their business, they were okay with it being free. They did not mention Vanguard was following the lead of multiple other brokerages in that article.

Sorry for the confusion - the merged combination of Schwab and TD Ameritrade was first. (I just double-checked that merger, to make sure I didn't remember that wrong, too!)
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Old 11-25-2021, 12:10 AM   #125
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I've been angry with Vanguard ever since they nagged us into accepting their new "brokerage" funds.

For some reason, we can no longer set up an automatic transfer of dividends from one fund (e.g. Total Bond Index) to VTSAX. No, now we have to remember to do an online exchange from the "settlement fund" every time there is a dividend.

Just one more online chore added to the daily pile.
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