Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Vanguard to Shift 1,300 Jobs to Infosys
Old 07-16-2020, 07:37 AM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 16,690
Vanguard to Shift 1,300 Jobs to Infosys

According to the article, this only impacts defined contribution plans (so far).

Quote:
Vanguard is shifting about 1,300 positions supporting its full-service recordkeeping client administration, operations and technology functions to outsourcing partner Infosys as part of a new strategic partnership between the companies that was announced Tuesday.

Vanguard had about 17,600 employees as of Jan. 31.

The impacted employees currently work within Vanguard’s Institutional and Information Technology divisions, Farrell pointed out.

The companies will provide a cloud-based recordkeeping platform that Vanguard said will enable “greater insights and unprecedented personalization to help deliver better outcomes for nearly five million participants and 1,500 sponsors.”

All Vanguard employees currently serving in full-service recordkeeping client administration, operations and technology function roles will be offered comparable positions at Infosys in close proximity to Vanguard’s offices in Malvern, Pennsylvania; Charlotte, North Carolina; and Scottsdale, Arizona, Vanguard said.

“Transitioning employees will receive the same salary, comparable benefits for a transition period of 12 months, plus meaningful incentive opportunities,” Vanguard said. The transitioning Vanguard crew will report to King and Mohit Joshi, Infosys president.
https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2020/07...bs-to-infosys/
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 30% bond funds / 20% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-16-2020, 08:17 AM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
MRG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,823
Interesting, I didn't Infosys was involved in this industry.
MRG is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 08:44 AM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 420
Another offshoring of jobs...
Toocold is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 08:48 AM   #4
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sheltered in place
Posts: 34,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toocold View Post
Another offshoring of jobs...
No, itís outsourcing, not offshoring, as the article clearly points out.
Quote:
All Vanguard employees currently serving in full-service recordkeeping client administration, operations and technology function roles will be offered comparable positions at Infosys in close proximity to Vanguardís offices in Malvern, Pennsylvania; Charlotte, North Carolina; and Scottsdale, Arizona, Vanguard said.
MichaelB is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 09:07 AM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
No, it’s outsourcing, not offshoring, as the article clearly points out.
For 12 months. And then... ?

A lot of us have seen this pattern before, have lived through this pattern. It rarely ends with all jobs staying in the USA. Or, the new jobs are formed in the offshore arm of the company.

I'm disappointed in Vanguard on this. I'm not pulling any money out yet, but no more new money is going in.
__________________
Retired Class of 2018


JoeWras is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 09:15 AM   #6
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 862
Having worked in IT my entire career, I'm pretty familiar with Infosys and the playbook here.

While the article does say that "transitioning" employees will receive the same salary and benefits for 12 months, what it leaves out is what will likely happen after that 12 month period has ended.

The 12 months is most likely so that the "transitioning" employee can train their Indian replacement (with "incentive" to do so - ie: you keep your job for now, even though everyone knows it will go away at the end of the 12 months), who will likely work for 25-30% of the cost (if that) of the "transitioning" employee and who likely has far less benefits.

We've seen this play out in Global 2000 companies time and time again. And while it will save VG customers like us some on the cost side of the equation, it's almost guaranteed that the quality of service will drop significantly once those former VG employees have completed their 12-month "transition" and the new crew takes over..

And if you think VG IT and website is bad now.. just wait until Infosys gets done "improving" things. I haven't seen a single Infosys implementation (and I've seen dozens if not hundreds) that's worth anything. There is a HUGE difference in quality between what American IT workers can build and what cheap Indian offshore labor can build. There's really no comparison - and I say this as someone that used to sell Consulting Services that included both American (expensive) and Indian (very, very cheap) resources.

ETA - I just noticed that this is apparently only for defined contribution plans (for now). But still...not a good sign of things to come, as these things typically morph once senior management sees all the cost savings and totally ignores the quality of the implementation.
24601NoMore is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 09:15 AM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
MRG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeWras View Post
For 12 months. And then... ?

A lot of us have seen this pattern before, have lived through this pattern. It rarely ends with all jobs staying in the USA.

I'm disappointed in Vanguard on this. I'm not pulling any money out yet, but no more new money is going in.
Nah, those jobs are not going overseas. Outsourcing in this industry, many others too, is the rule not the exception. I spent a career supplying services for the financial services industry and your money or information doesn't leave the country. It may be outsourced, the majority is, and you will never know.
MRG is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 09:16 AM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 11,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeWras View Post
For 12 months. And then... ?

A lot of us have seen this pattern before, have lived through this pattern. It rarely ends with all jobs staying in the USA. Or, the new jobs are formed in the offshore arm of the company.

I'm disappointed in Vanguard on this. I'm not pulling any money out yet, but no more new money is going in.
+1
Weirdly, just this morning I was thinking Vanguard would be fine for some long term holdings, but this turn of events makes me concerned.

We've been in the IT industry, and have seen this pattern before. I'm not willing to risk a pile of assets exposed to a disappearance suddenly happening outside the Country, where laws are different.
__________________
Fortune favors the prepared mind. ... Louis Pasteur
Sunset is online now  
Old 07-16-2020, 09:31 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG View Post
and you will never know.
Until the first time you call. It's usually pretty obvious.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 09:36 AM   #10
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24601NoMore View Post
Having worked in IT my entire career, I'm pretty familiar with Infosys and the playbook here.

While the article does say that "transitioning" employees will receive the same salary and benefits for 12 months, what it leaves out is what will likely happen after that 12 month period has ended.

The 12 months is most likely so that the "transitioning" employee can train their Indian replacement (with "incentive" to do so - ie: you keep your job for now, even though everyone knows it will go away at the end of the 12 months), who will likely work for 25-30% of the cost (if that) of the "transitioning" employee and who likely has far less benefits.

We've seen this play out in Global 2000 companies time and time again. And while it will save VG customers like us some on the cost side of the equation, it's almost guaranteed that the quality of service will drop significantly once those former VG employees have completed their 12-month "transition" and the new crew takes over..

And if you think VG IT and website is bad now.. just wait until Infosys gets done "improving" things. I haven't seen a single Infosys implementation (and I've seen dozens if not hundreds) that's worth anything. There is a HUGE difference in quality between what American IT workers can build and what cheap Indian offshore labor can build. There's really no comparison - and I say this as someone that used to sell Consulting Services that included both American (expensive) and Indian (very, very cheap) resources.

ETA - I just noticed that this is apparently only for defined contribution plans (for now). But still...not a good sign of things to come, as these things typically morph once senior management sees all the cost savings and totally ignores the quality of the implementation.
Above is exactly what happens. They don't broadcast the events after the 12 months is up. Most employees lose their jobs, the costs go down and the quality goes down too, and the executives get a mega bonus for the cost savings to the bottom line...without regard to the impacts to their customers. It's sorry, but its pretty common among US executives to throw thousands of their fellow citizens out of work for a quick buck for themselves.
__________________
Looking to FIRE in late, er I mean - mid, no wait - early 2023!
leftyfrizzell1963 is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 09:44 AM   #11
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 100
It is a global economy. Outsourcing those jobs does not necessarily mean low quality work. Looks to me those are IT jobs.

Some of the best of best engineers working in US are off Indian origin. They are also some of the best payed. (My personal experience)

Personally I own Vanguard ETFs but I don't have brokerage account with them.
TechLead is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 10:00 AM   #12
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechLead View Post
It is a global economy. Outsourcing those jobs does not necessarily mean low quality work. Looks to me those are IT jobs.

Some of the best of best engineers working in US are off Indian origin. They are also some of the best payed. (My personal experience)

Personally I own Vanguard ETFs but I don't have brokerage account with them.
Hmmm..I've had the exact opposite experience, and I've worked for some of the largest Silicon Valley companies selling software and Professional Services to the largest of the Global 2000 firms. I even spent a few years working for an India-based Consulting company selling PS after they acquired a NY-based PS company that had been around for ~25 years doing work primarily for Wall Street firms. The net was that we had American IT Consultants (the NY guys) and Indian Consultants (some in the US but many offshore). With a (very few) exceptions, there was a HUGE difference in quality of what was built.

I have nothing against Indian-based IT companies or workers, but I've worked for Indian-based companies and have had customers that they've done implementations for going back nearly 35 years. It's very rare that you see higher quality and almost never higher pay. The whole "play" by American companies is to wipe out expensive, American-based IT workers and replace them with less expensive workers from India, China, Russia and elsewhere. In the Indian company I worked for's case, my American Consultants went for $200 - 300/hr. My India-based Consultants were $20-30 / hr. That was the cost to the customer, and we obviously paid the Consultants less.

There's been case after case after case of this happening at large US (and multi-national) companies. Even Disney ran this play, this time using Cognizant over Infosys..but the game was the same..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...suit-says.html
24601NoMore is offline  
It's a global, diverse world
Old 07-16-2020, 10:06 AM   #13
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 63
It's a global, diverse world

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyfrizzell1963 View Post
Above is exactly what happens. They don't broadcast the events after the 12 months is up. Most employees lose their jobs, the costs go down and the quality goes down too, and the executives get a mega bonus for the cost savings to the bottom line...without regard to the impacts to their customers. It's sorry, but its pretty common among US executives to throw thousands of their fellow citizens out of work for a quick buck for themselves.
It's the way things should be, and are. This happens to manufacturing workers, entry level workers, tradesmen all the time.

And many - have no issue with it whatsoever.

Consistency is good, as is the global diverse marketplace. We're all one global family, and exchange of ideas, labor, and culture is great.
MichealKnight is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 10:08 AM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 16,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichealKnight View Post
It's the way things should be, and are. This happens to manufacturing workers, entry level workers, tradesmen all the time.

And many - have no issue with it whatsoever.

Consistency is good, as is the global diverse marketplace. We're all one global family, and exchange of ideas, labor, and culture is great.
+1. That’s the irony. We’re all for it (or stay conspicuously quiet/willfully ignorant) when it’s an industry we’re a consumer of, but it’s an outrage when it’s an industry that impacts us directly. I spent my career in manufacturing and when I see workers from other industries protesting and barking at everyone to protect their jobs/industry I think ‘but it was fine to those protestors when it was all those involved in manufacturing.’ We all had a choice, and made it...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 30% bond funds / 20% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 10:12 AM   #15
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24601NoMore View Post
Hmmm..I've had the exact opposite experience, and I've worked for some of the largest Silicon Valley companies selling software and Professional Services to the largest of the Global 2000 firms.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...suit-says.html
My experience is from working for 3 companies that you find in QQQ ETF holdings as upper 10 holdings. Few of the are actually today run by Indian born CEOs.

But clearly those companies import on H1B / hire from Grad Schools good people. Pretty much all of them have 1/2 foreign born employees.

They usually outsource grunt work to India, but even that is changing.
TechLead is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 10:15 AM   #16
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichealKnight View Post
It's the way things should be, and are. This happens to manufacturing workers, entry level workers, tradesmen all the time.

And many - have no issue with it whatsoever.

Consistency is good, as is the global diverse marketplace. We're all one global family, and exchange of ideas, labor, and culture is great.
And if a foreign worker were hired by your company to replace you at 20-25% of your salary, and you were to lose your job as a result (and be unlikely to find another job anywhere near your old salary because many other companies in your industry were doing the same)..would you still be OK with that?

Oh, and to add insult to injury..assume your current company told you that you were only eligible for unemployment and/or severance unless you trained your foreign worker..on how to replace you, at 20-25% of your original salary.

I'm guessing (just a hunch) that neither you nor any other American would TRULY be OK with that scenario.
24601NoMore is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 10:19 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,323
I guess if you've been displaced, it's personal and leaves a mark.

Luckily, we are free to make our own decisions, including a preference to domestic labor. Consider the situation with PPE materials, and what that did for our initial virus response. (Hint: it was and still is catastrophic for North America.)

I don't think India bashing is helpful. I worked with some excellent engineers world over that I called friend and colleague.

What I didn't like about it was the difficulty of working on a 11 1/2 hr time shift. It was difficult for all of us and hurt the quality of our collective work. I especially didn't like the fact that my colleagues would typically work from 9pm to 1am for our benefit. It was clearly disruptive to their family life.
__________________
Retired Class of 2018


JoeWras is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 10:34 AM   #18
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24601NoMore View Post
And if a foreign worker were hired by your company to replace you at 20-25% of your salary, and you were to lose your job as a result (and be unlikely to find another job anywhere near your old salary because many other companies in your industry were doing the same)..would you still be OK with that?
I would not be OK with it and I would not like to work for such company. That to me is indication that company will not do well. I like to work in a place where RSUs are worth something. .

I can't tell if Vanguard is or is not such place.
TechLead is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 10:50 AM   #19
Moderator
Aerides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,000
I actually worked directly with one of the Infosys locations listed (scottsdale) and have been to that office a few times. I had 5 of their onsite folks in my team, and a dozen offshore in india.

Pretty good bunch.

Outsourcing and offshoring has been part of the US economy in large part since the 90's. Nothing new here.
Aerides is offline  
Old 07-16-2020, 10:52 AM   #20
Moderator
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,098
I'm not sure it will make a difference when it comes to quality of service and whether jobs remain domestic, but Vanguard is not your typical corporation; as a true "mutual fund" they are unique because they don't have shareholders to answer to. The customers are the owners. Obviously mishandled outsourcing / offshoring happens all the time, and we all cringe thinking about having to deal with representatives that are improperly trained and/or improperly motivated, whether domestic or foreign. I personally trust Vanguard not to screw this up.
sengsational is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jobs Jobs Jobs Breedlove Other topics 10 10-22-2018 08:54 PM
jobs news July 8--losing government jobs palomalou FIRE Related Public Policy 72 07-12-2011 06:31 PM
Shift Happens... Fireup2020 Other topics 4 06-02-2007 09:30 AM
Shift Happens greg Other topics 9 05-18-2007 11:09 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:21 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.