Venting about FIRE

[pacergal]

OP-- it is good to have a place to vent, this forum is a wonderful place to be!

I am sorry your situation has gotten you to this point. I understand and commend you on your desire to help family, I hope that moving forward, you and DW have a plan to limit financial help to what you can afford and are comfortable with.

This past year, we have helped our kids more than we planned at this stage, however, we had a stopping point, money wise. Luckily, we did not reach that before their situations changed for the better. And we were happy to help, because we could.

Stuff happens, life goes on. Planning is the key if you can.
Wishing you well in the future. Keep us informed. Hope you find the job you wish for, if that is your goal.

 

[Shabby]

That is really unfortunate as it takes so much willpower to get to the point of FIRE. I wonder if something like cancer could derail my retirement at some point. But, you are a really special person to not only have the means, but the kindness to help them out.

 

[Vacation4us]

I can see the neighbor and friends thing. My husband is very handy and not retired. We have a neighbor/his friends that spend money like water and have a house that is fresh out of HGTV but they have no problem asking him to replace their garbage disposal,clean their dryer vents etc etc etc. Drives me crazy.

Takes time from our time together, not to mention all the tasks we have to complete at our house. I realize my husband enjoys helping others so I try to stand back but these particular people are a sore spot with me for these reasons and more.

Helping your parents is hard but important. When they are gone you won't regret the time and energy you spent helping them. Financially or otherwise.

 

[FireFool]

P.s. I think when people find out that I’m retired and my wife is a stay at home mom, people have certain expectations of you.

Somewhere I read in regards to ER the importance of retaining a balance between engagement and freedom - it's good to have things to do, as long as it's things that YOU choose as important to YOU. Early in my retirement I quickly realized that I really didn't have "all the time in the world now that I was retired". Time is still a scarce commodity, more so than money, for me. While there are many things I'm capable of doing both for myself and others, I've learned that I need to be selective about where I commit myself. I've learned to apologetically say NO to people and/or activities.

 

[Physics Guy]

@HadEnuff - your story about your uncle's friend resonates with me. We're trying to balance things as we move towards our 2021/22 RE date. Our parents are doing well but they are over 80 and it is easy to see the writing on the wall especially for my MIL (physically and mentally she is doing great but DW is her only child and family ties are close). As long as I am working overseas there is no guilt or hard feelings but if both DW and I are retired it will be harder to stay overseas or move to a different part of the US away from her.

 

[48Fire]

I feel like I failed achieving my dreams , but, then on the same time, I’m glad I can help out family.

In the long run, you'll probably remember the part about being glad you helped your family. We were thrust into this as well. I know I left a lot of money on the table, and sometimes it was frustrating.

 

[marko]

Two hundred years ago, I'd have been able to provide direct care for my own parents far "better" than I can today. That's because they would already be long since deceased at the level of feebleness they've reached.

Today mom and dad are so debilitated, physically and mentally, that only highly specialized and invasive measures by people with advanced training and sophisticated equipment is keeping them alive. I couldn't possibly manage their strokes, diabetes and dementia.

This is an important point to underline. Years ago, what ailed old people was pretty much just old age... and then they died.

Today, people have been kept alive with problems well beyond what a normal stay at home relative can deal with.

 

[ckelly78z]

What this sounds like to me is that some people feel the need to step up, and be the responsible friend/son/daughter/neighbor, and help out however they can...which turns into expectations. By stepping up, others can sit back knowing that the hard work is being done by someone else with no apparent self guilt.

Sometimes, it may be better to just trust that another person will take their turn "stepping up", rather than you. You don't have to be everything to everyone, and it's in your best interest not to be that person.

 

[Dtail]

MIL is 83 and is okay so far. She has a few sisters near her who could take her in, otherwise she would have to move to FLA to be with us.
My parents are 89/86 and would be taken in by my sister if necessary. I continue to take care of all their finances.

 

[Janet from FIRE Planet]

Not enough info on the home for sale to really help, but...
Most homes do not sell either due to price (too high) or condition (too dated, messy, etc.).

If listed with a Realtor, please ask him/her to be brutally honest about your pricing and condition. Drop the price 5%? Paint the interior a more neutral shade?

Also, see if the Realtor can arrange to have other agents in the office/other offices stop by and take a quick look.

Years ago, when working with a large real estate office, we would sometimes host a "broker's open" for slow moving homes, on weekday. The listing Realtor/seller would provide a modest lunch (BBQ, burgers, brats, Chic-fil-A) and invite other offices to munch and review the listing -providing ballots for the Realtors to fill out and later give away a few gas gift cards in a drawing. Reviews were anonymous and honest. Might work.

I agree with everything you wrote. The house might need to be decluttered and styled by a professional....

 

[zippy2020]

Don't recall seeing any Asian residents in the facilities.

We live in the San Francisco Bay Area; we investigated numerous facilities 5 yrs ago for my MIL and are now in the process of visiting senior living facilities for ourselves.

My spouse was an only child and altho it is true taking care of one's parents is part of the culture - he didn't come to the U.S. until he was 12 - it is simply not always possible to take care of one's elderly parents in the U.S. the way it is done in Asia. For one thing, in Asia even middle-class people have servants...something that is certainly not true in the U.S.

There are many seniorcare facilities here in the SFBA that have a good number of Asian residents in Asst. Lvg. My MIL lived with us for seven years but did much better at a seniorcare facility that was able to alleviate the anxiety that so often comes with people who suffer even mild dementia.

But certainly it is true these facilities can be very expensive, and if the parents don't have the $$$$, somebody has to step up. I join in saluting the OP for helping his parents. It's really hard when people you love either didn't plan very well, or ran into really bad luck.

Then when everything goes south/falls apart you have to pick up the pieces. Not fun at all.

Here's hoping OP can get the parents' house sold eventually. Did the parents at least get their legal docs done; e.g., wills and healthcare/financial powers of attorney?

Good luck and keep us posted. Venting is healthy!

 

[jmp470]

My May update: I’m over being frustrated and have been applying to jobs. I’ve come to terms with what’s happening to in my world. In the end, I’m happy I can step up and help. Even if it means sacrifices right now.

What I’ve learned is that I want even less debt, I want zero debt! Not that I’m carrying a lot. But, I want all of my money for me.

 

[Nature Lover]

Jmp,

Despite your initial frustration, I applaud your thoughtfully taking the time to consider the options available, and determine what takes priority. Best of luck in your job search; hope you find something that fulfills your needs, provides enough to eliminate your debt (small that it is), and also gives you time to enjoy life. And hopefully, this sacrifice now will translate into an even better situation later - when you decide to retire again.

NL

 

[Big_Hitter]

You are a good son. Your parents and you should be proud.

+1

 

[jmp470]

Jmp,

Despite your initial frustration, I applaud your thoughtfully taking the time to consider the options available, and determine what takes priority. Best of luck in your job search; hope you find something that fulfills your needs, provides enough to eliminate your debt (small that it is), and also gives you time to enjoy life. And hopefully, this sacrifice now will translate into an even better situation later - when you decide to retire again.

NL

Oh that last part stings a little

 

[imoldernu]

I'm at the other end of the scale. @83 have come to some hard decisions... not just for myself, but for the others...

A pencil... and paper... A sit down.. an hour at a time... no holds barred. Let it all hang out... My finances, your finances. My hopes, your hopes... My expectations, your expectations.

Written down.. every dollar, and every part of the future. Faced now... today... so there's no holding back. If it's too hard... walk away... come again another day.

You (I) don't lead the discussion... it's a two way deal. If it doesn't work... walk away... come again another day. We have our own lives to live. Who knows how long those lives may be.

It may hurt. You may be the stronger one.... no matter...

Up to you (me) to detail the worst case scenario.

As adults... even as "beaten down, no hope" adults... there is a survival instinct. If it goes to that, there will be a solution.

Surprising how this works... and when done right it always does. It may take three or four sessions, but it works. At the end, love and respect takes over.

Just an opinion.

 

[Nick12]

I'm at the other end of the scale. @83 have come to some hard decisions... not just for myself, but for the others...

A pencil... and paper... A sit down.. an hour at a time... no holds barred. Let it all hang out... My finances, your finances. My hopes, your hopes... My expectations, your expectations.

Written down.. every dollar, and every part of the future. Faced now... today... so there's no holding back. If it's too hard... walk away... come again another day.

You (I) don't lead the discussion... it's a two way deal. If it doesn't work... walk away... come again another day. We have our own lives to live. Who knows how long those lives may be.

It may hurt. You may be the stronger one.... no matter...

Up to you (me) to detail the worst case scenario.

As adults... even as "beaten down, no hope" adults... there is a survival instinct. If it goes to that, there will be a solution.

Surprising how this works... and when done right it always does. It may take three or four sessions, but it works. At the end, love and respect takes over.

Just an opinion.

+1/ these are powerful words for any age group.

 

[Nature Lover]

Oh that last part stings a little

Jmp,

Hope you know that the last part wasn't a dig, and no disrespect or criticism intended. Flexibility is a big part of a successful retirement, and we all face unexpected/changing circumstances over time. I was admiring your honest, thoughtful process; and noting that your decision to go back to work will allow you not only to address the current financial challenge, but also give you the option to reduce or eliminate the little debt you have before you decide working is no longer necessary/desirable.

I only wish you the best.

NL

 

[RobLJ]

This is somewhat off-topic, but I felt I needed to indicate my respect for the OP's dilemma. And to indicate that the issue of family support is not quite as simple as it may seem, to some.

I and DW have been sending money on a monthly basis to my parents for 15 years and now mother, for more than 10 years. It isn't crippling, but it is significant, and I"m lucky that it did not significantly delay my semi-retirement, although it is a factor in my continuing to work online on my own schedule part-time for my employer (at a very generous compensation).

One might say, how thoughtless of your parents to interfere in your retirement plans. However..........
my twin was discovered at 13 to have a very rare progressive myclonic disease. The parental plan was for Mom to continue working as a 1st grade teacher full time to build up retirement (she had started 3 years before when we were finishing jr. high). Originally, he was predicted to die between 16-20; she quit to provide the full-time care that became necessary. Then an experimental European anti-seizure drug was found and, after his entry as part of the trials, it kept him from dying, although he continued to lose muscle control and continued to lose brain acuity. He was the first generation to live into his 40s with the disease; Mom gave him 24-7 care for 20 years.

After he died, she then took in her mother, who began exhibiting Alzheimers. Then Dad succumbed to long-term diabetes and began to fail, with similar symptoms to her mother.
The upshot is that she provided long-term care for more than 30 years, at the expense of her own career.

I don't think telling her that she failed to adequately prepare for her retirement is an adequate or fair response, nor do I think most of you would think so.
If I work part-time for a few more years, it hardly seems like much of a sacrifice in comparison. I think of my twin and his inability to work, and it seems a bit..........I suppose, petty is the term.

So reality tends to interfere with the best-laid plans, and that's OK, really.

 

[SnowBound]

My May update: I’m over being frustrated and have been applying to jobs. I’ve come to terms with what’s happening to in my world. In the end, I’m happy I can step up and help. Even if it means sacrifices right now.

What I’ve learned is that I want even less debt, I want zero debt! Not that I’m carrying a lot. But, I want all of my money for me.

Remember: When you get to zero, BIG party. Out best ending party ever was the Mortgage Burning Party.

 

[jmp470]

Mid-May update: Well it looks like I have two weeks until things really start to change for me.

1) The house I was venting about is under contract and closes in June. And I had a good discussion with my parents and will stop financial support in June too.

2) I signed a 1.5 - 2 year commitment to a company to consult full time. This money will be used to pay off debt, which in turn will provide even more money in retirement. The contract is open ended, however, it is right up my lane. I have no boundaries except to streamline their business model and grow revenue with zero direct reports and full authorization to make all the changes needed!

3) So I went from class of 2018 to class of 2021 ish.

 

[razztazz]

I worked my tail off since I was 17 doing a military career and as many jobs on the side that I could. I retired in 2018, and was all set to FIRE. HOWEVER, I find that I’m now taking care of more people and spending significantly more money to help others.

To the point that I’ve been looking for a job. YUCK

I feel like I failed achieving my dreams , but, then on the same time, I’m glad I can help out family.

Thus far, 2019 has been a horrible year for me financially, I’ve depleted my cash on hand by over 50%, which puts my family into a bind if another emergency happens. In theory I went from 4-5 years COH, to about 1-1.5. I’m trying to unload real estate assets, but, they are not moving at all.

Anyways, early retirement is awesome. I’m just frustrated that I’m getting derailed. And I’m here to vent.

P.s. I think when people find out that I’m retired and my wife is a stay at home mom, people have certain expectations of you.

I've been there. With me it's siblings who lived a live of "don't worry, something will come up/things will turn around" without actually doing anything to make that happen for --- forty years!! ----

Then age, medical misfortune, unemployment, and perpetual brokeness all collide. Collide with him living in a State that dumped on the ACA , so Guess Who had to keep paying for medical insurance, rent, car insurance, etc for a good long while? And now, yrs later I am still providing subsidies as if I were the Dept of Agriculture.

 

[jmp470]

I've been there. With me it's siblings who lived a live of "don't worry, something will come up/things will turn around" without actually doing anything to make that happen for --- forty years!! ----

Then age, medical misfortune, unemployment, and perpetual brokeness all collide. Collide with him living in a State that dumped on the ACA , so Guess Who had to keep paying for medical insurance rent car insurance etc for a good long while? And now, yrs later I am still providing subsidies as if I were the Dept of Agriculture.

That would be even tougher for me to handle, supporting my siblings. I feel for you, I could imagine how hard it’s been, given how my situation was.

 

[Nature Lover]

Mid-May update: Well it looks like I have two weeks until things really start to change for me.

1) The house I was venting about is under contract and closes in June. And I had a good discussion with my parents and will stop financial support in June too.

2) I signed a 1.5 - 2 year commitment to a company to consult full time. This money will be used to pay off debt, which in turn will provide even more money in retirement. The contract is open ended, however, it is right up my lane. I have no boundaries except to streamline their business model and grow revenue with zero direct reports and full authorization to make all the changes needed!

3) So I went from class of 2018 to class of 2021 ish.

Awesome JMP! Sounds like you found the solutions that work best for you.

Cheers! NL

 

[Teacher Terry]

Razz, people can only take advantage of you if you let them. I can’t imagine supporting a sibling. I would have helped them find community resources.