Venting about FIRE

[jmp470]

I worked my tail off since I was 17 doing a military career and as many jobs on the side that I could. I retired in 2018, and was all set to FIRE. HOWEVER, I find that I’m now taking care of more people and spending significantly more money to help others.

To the point that I’ve been looking for a job. YUCK

I feel like I failed achieving my dreams , but, then on the same time, I’m glad I can help out family.

Thus far, 2019 has been a horrible year for me financially, I’ve depleted my cash on hand by over 50%, which puts my family into a bind if another emergency happens. In theory I went from 4-5 years COH, to about 1-1.5. I’m trying to unload real estate assets, but, they are not moving at all.

Anyways, early retirement is awesome. I’m just frustrated that I’m getting derailed. And I’m here to vent.

P.s. I think when people find out that I’m retired and my wife is a stay at home mom, people have certain expectations of you.

 

[Dtail]

Can you provide some more info on who you are supporting and why? It could lead to some advice on perhaps if there are any alternative routes.

 

[jmp470]

Elderly parents and their house.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Elderly parents and their house.

If they cannot afford it on their own, perhaps they need to move.

 

[socca]

... I’ve depleted my cash on hand by over 50%, which puts my family into a bind if another emergency happens.

Thanks for sharing. The second-largest expense item in my budget is allocation to reserves for non-recurring expenses (largest expense item = taxes). I wonder how many FIRE-dreamers adequately plan for such expenses. It's nice of you to help others - sorry for the financial stress.

 

[jmp470]

Thanks for sharing. The second-largest expense item in my budget is allocation to reserves for non-recurring expenses (largest expense item = taxes). I wonder how many FIRE-dreamers adequately plan for such expenses. It's nice of you to help others - sorry for the financial stress.

I have a plan to relocate my parents, however, until the house sells, I'm left holding the bag.

I might have underestimated my cash requirements, based on what is happening now.

I guess its back to the grind for more pain

 

[Nick12]

Sorry to hear about your frustrations but it's really special and important that you are helping your family. I FIRE'D late last year at age 51. The last 6 months were the toughest but most rewarding time of my life. I was a caregiver to my father at home who battled COPD for the last several years. He's in a better place now and he is resting in peace. I miss you, Pa.

 

[jmp470]

Sorry to hear about your frustrations but it's really special and important that you are helping your family. I FIRE'D late last year at age 51. The last 6 months were the toughest but most rewarding time of my life. I was a caregiver to my father at home who battled COPD for the last several years. He's in a better place now and he is resting in peace. I miss you, Pa.

I strongly dislike that I'm looking for a job. But, on the same time, I believe my priorities are correct. Hence the venting

 

[haha]

I strongly dislike that I'm looking for a job. But, on the same time, I believe my priorities are correct. Hence the venting

A lot of very high quality people on this board. It is good to read about these behaviors.

Congratulations to you.

Ha

 

[gwraigty]

P.s. I think when people find out that I’m retired and my wife is a stay at home mom, people have certain expectations of you.

I can relate to this. I've been a SAHM throughout my 26 year marriage. I had new neighbors try to use me as an unpaid babysitter for their 3 kids, even after I became pregnant with my second child and my first child was still under 2. It didn't start out that way. It progressed in an underhanded way. I had to put a stop to it.

I became a partial caregiver to my grandmother not long after that. I loved her dearly and she'd done so much for me. She'd practically raised me. It didn't occur to me to say no. It was manageable at first, just over the weekend at our house. Then it became 3 days, then 4 days. She was spending more time at our house than her son's house. He and his wife started refusing to take her to needed appointments, etc. When I objected to this, I was told that since I didn't work and they did, etc. Not work? Maybe not for pay, but I had a 3 year old and an infant.

People don't have a right to expect anything of you, just because they're working and you're not, or because you have more money than they do. Period.

 

[gwraigty]

If they cannot afford it on their own, perhaps they need to move.

+1

It seems as though there are no shortage of people who get roped into supporting their elderly parents, as evidenced by another recent thread. I'm all for helping within reason, but not to the detriment of one's own financial well-being and peace of mind.

 

[Nature Lover]

Thus far, 2019 has been a horrible year for me financially, I’ve depleted my cash on hand by over 50%, which puts my family into a bind if another emergency happens. In theory I went from 4-5 years COH, to about 1-1.5. I’m trying to unload real estate assets, but, they are not moving at all.

jmp, I see you're trying to unload real estate assets...which leads me to wonder if this is a financial trouble requiring you get a job, or more a liquidity challenge. If the latter, you might consider borrowing/setting up a line of credit against the real estate to serve as a backstop against the potential impact of another emergency.


PS. It's good to vent; and like others have commented, it's good that you're able and willing to help your family at a time that they need it.

 

[Mdlerth]

Sometimes Fate just slips it to us for no reason

Vent away! We're here to listen. Go ahead and scream, curse, punch the sofa, and just release all your anger like your very own Trinity atomic test. Get it all out until you're empty.

Then, when you're sweating and panting with exhaustion, with your last ounce of strength reach around and pat yourself on the back for being such a good son.

There's a concurrent thread going on about how hiking in the wilderness helps us master painful feelings. Consider it. Good luck.

 

[jmp470]

jmp, I see you're trying to unload real estate assets...which leads me to wonder if this is a financial trouble requiring you get a job, or more a liquidity challenge. If the latter, you might consider borrowing/setting up a line of credit against the real estate to serve as a backstop against the potential impact of another emergency.


PS. It's good to vent; and like others have commented, it's good that you're able and willing to help your family at a time that they need it.

Thanks for the reply. I never thought about setting up a line of credit on the asset. Right now I'm good. But, I don't like being tight, its a suffocating feeling.

 

[RunningBum]

Very understandable. It's great that you are in financial shape to be able to help. I'd do it too. Then I'd want to vent somewhere too. Good luck with things.

 

[GoodWishes]

You are a good son. Your parents and you should be proud.

 

[brucethebroker]

Thanks for the reply. I never thought about setting up a line of credit on the asset. Right now I'm good. But, I don't like being tight, its a suffocating feeling.

Not enough info on the home for sale to really help, but...
Most homes do not sell either due to price (too high) or condition (too dated, messy, etc.).

If listed with a Realtor, please ask him/her to be brutally honest about your pricing and condition. Drop the price 5%? Paint the interior a more neutral shade?

Also, see if the Realtor can arrange to have other agents in the office/other offices stop by and take a quick look.

Years ago, when working with a large real estate office, we would sometimes host a "broker's open" for slow moving homes, on weekday. The listing Realtor/seller would provide a modest lunch (BBQ, burgers, brats, Chic-fil-A) and invite other offices to munch and review the listing -providing ballots for the Realtors to fill out and later give away a few gas gift cards in a drawing. Reviews were anonymous and honest. Might work.

 

[HadEnuff]

I know people whose parents left them a bundle of cash. I used to envy them a lot. On the other hand, I know people who are still working as they approach 70, in order to help take care of their parents.
I now realize how lucky I was that even if they couldn't leave me a bundle of cash, mine were at least able to take care of themselves financially and not be a burden to their children.

I was talking to an Asian woman the other day about an aging uncle of mine and she asked if he'd considered moving in with his kids. I said no, he's got plenty of cash to hire help, and still able to move around well enough. This woman told me that our culture (I'm a white American, 4th generation immigrant) is very different from her Asian culture. She's Vietnamese. She said in her culture aging parents fully expect to be taken care of by their children. There is no shame in it, and it would be deeply shameful not to step up to the plate when that time comes. She actually gave up her business on the West Coast to start a new business on the East Coast so she could be more active in the care of her aging parents.

 

[FIREd]

I am providing financial help to my mother as well. I find it extremely important to set clear boundaries in these situations. I made it clear to her that I would help within reason relative to my means (it helps her manage her expectations). I will not deprive myself, compromise my long term financial situation, or give up FIRE to help her. I am glad to be in a position to provide some financial relief to others (I did build a cushion to help others into my FIRE plan), but if I start feeling resentful about it then I know that my boundaries have been violated.

 

[Nick12]

I know people whose parents left them a bundle of cash. I used to envy them a lot. On the other hand, I know people who are still working as they approach 70, in order to help take care of their parents.
I now realize how lucky I was that even if they couldn't leave me a bundle of cash, mine were at least able to take care of themselves financially and not be a burden to their children.

I was talking to an Asian woman the other day about an aging uncle of mine and she asked if he'd considered moving in with his kids. I said no, he's got plenty of cash to hire help, and still able to move around well enough. This woman told me that our culture (I'm a white American, 4th generation immigrant) is very different from her Asian culture. She's Vietnamese. She said in her culture aging parents fully expect to be taken care of by their children. There is no shame in it, and it would be deeply shameful not to step up to the plate when that time comes. She actually gave up her business on the West Coast to start a new business on the East Coast so she could be more active in the care of her aging parents.

+1 on Asian children taking care of their elderly parents. I at times donate items to nursing homes/ assisted living facilities over the few years. Don't recall seeing any Asian residents in the facilities. In my travels throughout the world I get a more rounded perspective and an eye opener in how different cultures take care of their elderly and their grit, determination and attitudes towards this subject matter.

 

[jmp470]

My opinion is that when I was working, there were no expectations of me to help support anyone minus my family of 5, as I was seen as a working stiff, following along in the rat race. However, once I retired, peoples opinion of me shifted. I’ve noticed this change even among our friends.

 

[bingybear]

We planned a lot of travel in ER. A decade ago my father in law passed and we helped her with Parkenson's care. Doctor visits were several hundred's of miles each way (doctor she preferred). We RE 4 years ago and demands for help grew and other health needs (including Alzheimer's) came up. The need increased exponentially. So I think I feel some of your pain I think).

You may be have more $ than the others around you. This can be frustrating if you also live on much less than those around you.

First of all... go play pickle ball! No it does not solve everything. For me it is a new set of people. It is great exercise if you get the right group. It doesn't have to be expensive. For me it is a good outlet for sanity.

You also need to set boundaries. What financial help and personal can you really afford to do. And yes it does feel like our plans are falling apart.

As for the "how Asian's take care of their elderly". When we were in Japan over a decade ago we staid in an area that had a lot of old folk's homes. So it is not "everyone" that does what we think.

I don't have issues with other family and what they think. DMIL has siblings that we don't see often and are all aging. DW is an only child. So it is just us.

I've thought about going back to work and have been offered good jobs with start ups. But have not hit that point yet.

 

[HadEnuff]

When I was in my 30s, that same uncle of mine had a friend who had just retired. He and his wife were looking forward to spending winters in The Keys, but one of them had an aging parent that they felt they had to be involved with in some capacity to keep an eye on their care. Eventually the aging parent, of course, passed away. A few months later, so did my uncle's friend. He never got to do the winter in The Keys thing. But it just wasn't in his ethic to not help. It's just the way it goes sometimes.

 

[Teacher Terry]

When I first retired people were asking me to do all kinds of things for them and evening I had to set boundaries. We helped a couple stay in their house for a extra year but it got exhausting going over a few times a day. Eventually we had a cruise booked and the family had to take action because we were leaving for 3 weeks. He ended up living with his son while he was dying from cancer and she went to a home a hour away. We went weekly until she died 18 months later.

 

[Mdlerth]

My skill set only goes so far

I was talking to an Asian woman the other day about an aging uncle of mine and she asked if he'd considered moving in with his kids. I said no, he's got plenty of cash to hire help, and still able to move around well enough. This woman told me that our culture (I'm a white American, 4th generation immigrant) is very different from her Asian culture. She's Vietnamese. She said in her culture aging parents fully expect to be taken care of by their children. There is no shame in it, and it would be deeply shameful not to step up to the plate when that time comes.

Well, yes and no. Aging parents relying on their children was a more common feature of American society when ours was an agrarian economy. The fragmentation of families may be more a consequence of two centuries of the Industrial Revolution than a uniquely Western cultural characteristic.

Two hundred years ago, I'd have been able to provide direct care for my own parents far "better" than I can today. That's because they would already be long since deceased at the level of feebleness they've reached.

Today mom and dad are so debilitated, physically and mentally, that only highly specialized and invasive measures by people with advanced training and sophisticated equipment is keeping them alive. I couldn't possibly manage their strokes, diabetes and dementia.

I expect that as countries like Vietnam continue to modernize they'll face similar problems.