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Old 08-24-2020, 10:49 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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Driving 7K/yr & $2 gas, the cost of a hybrid will never payout, impressive or not.
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Old 08-24-2020, 11:07 AM   #22
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I think the efficient comment (at least how I feel about it) is we should always try to use less resources and not waste things.

If I can get more MPG from a car, I should try to do that. I would like to keep as much resources for future generations. Although I know many in my generation will see less demand as an opportunity to waste more at cheap prices.
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Old 08-24-2020, 01:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by wrigley View Post
That's a long time to leave gas just sitting idle in your tank. Might want to consider adding a "fuel stabilizer" in the future.


Mike
Good idea. I just never went almost 6 months between fill ups before. I used to stabilize gas I stored in the yard barn (back in the day) as well as in the mowers, etc. Just never thought about it for the car. Thanks!
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Old 08-24-2020, 01:44 PM   #24
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I have been curious about this also. Did they verify income, or just run a credit check? I have been hesitant to give anyone our income and so we have always just paid cash. But with the 0% rates now... have to consider since DH will buy a new truck next year.

No, they didn't verify our income. We just filled out the form and they ran a credit check. Easy Peasy!
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Old 08-24-2020, 03:41 PM   #25
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Since multiple people are saying they will get a Toyota RAV Prime you should know that's probably not happening this year. Toyota is only bringing 5k of them here for the entire model year. There are waiting lists and dealers advertising them for many thousands over MSRP.
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Old 08-28-2020, 03:45 PM   #26
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Driving 7K/yr & $2 gas, the cost of a hybrid will never payout, impressive or not.
I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?
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Old 08-28-2020, 04:15 PM   #27
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I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?


I assume the post you cited is a reference to people that pay more for a hybrid because the additional cost will be offset by the fuel savings. Even with cheap gas the payback requires driving a certain number of miles. I guess saying an item will pay for itself is just the turn of a phrase.
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Old 08-28-2020, 06:01 PM   #28
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We have 3 Toyotas, and sometimes I wonder if we will ever need to replace any of them. (04, 10, and a 2012)
Basic maintenance and they run forever.
I am liking the idea of a hybrid more and more. But the only one we would consider getting rid of is my lovely wife’s 04 Landcruiser. She will never part with it. It does get horrible gas mileage, but she drives it about 5-8,000 miles a year.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:09 PM   #29
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ya think $2 gas will be around forever? Good luck with that! Driving cheap wasn't my goal......driving efficiently was.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:16 PM   #30
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I just report what we spend from our accounts each year which is a pretty consistent round number. We do not draw SS yet or have pensions. I've never been questioned but if I were I could easily justify that as a sustainable withdrawal rate.

Congrats on the Camry....we had one years ago and it was a great car.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:34 PM   #31
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I have been curious about this also. Did they verify income, or just run a credit check? I have been hesitant to give anyone our income and so we have always just paid cash. But with the 0% rates now... have to consider since DH will buy a new truck next year.
They just ask for your income, have never verified it for us. They mostly depend on your credit report.

We have been retired for 10+ years and whenever asked, on a car loan or credit card or whatever, I say our income is $120,000. Nobody has blinked an eye, nobody has asked for verification.
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Old 08-28-2020, 09:11 PM   #32
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I have a Bolt and a 2017 4x4 Silverado.
I'm not thinking either will "pay for itself" although the Bolt versus a Chevy Tahoe would be interesting, I suppose.
I probably missed something in this interesting "controversy."

Walking or taking the Reno bus probably would "pay for itself" I suppose, but it wouldn't get me up to Spooner Summit Sunday to hike.

A Hummer, I'm sure, will "pay for itself" under some interesting calculus versus the Bolt, which I reject out of hand. And no, a Chevy Tahoe, would not be "cheaper" than a Bolt. Maybe my Silverado.
Sorry. (I like the Silverado but I'm not doing the cost analysis of it versus the Bolt. Sorry. Nor should you.)







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Originally Posted by Gary 1958 View Post
I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?
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Old 08-28-2020, 10:04 PM   #33
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Since you seem to be a bit bewildered. The Bolt is getting 4.2 miles per kwh. If I were buying from the grid it would be .09 c per kwh. (I bought solar panels, so it is nothing but whatthehell).

Basically, compared to the Subaru Forester, the Bolt is........................
anywhere from 4-8X more efficient.

Bolt 250 miles (/4.2 mpkwh X .09) = $5.4
Forester 250 miles (/22mpg *3$ per gallon) = $34.
Forester takes supreme gas. It has gone down to 2.75 and up to 3.50.
So, you can do the "calculus" all you want. We put in solar panels last year, so the 9c/kwh might go up or down. Right now, it's way down.

So, the Bolt is so much cheaper than the Forester per mile, so much it's ludicrous. Admittedly, we sold the Forrester before we were facing major service (drive chain, etc) at about 1500$. Oh, the Bolt will cost about 50$ in another 4k miles to check the...... fluids.

Note: I don't think anyone should do what we did. But with the addition of the Bolt plus the Silverado, we pretty much can go off-road wherever we want to go and drive very cheaply elsewhere around Reno.

YMMV.





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Originally Posted by gerntz View Post
Unless some group decides to raise gas taxes a lot, yes I do think gas price will stay low. Folks like you driving hybrids & more electric cars & more working from home should keep gasoline demand & thus prices in that range for the foreseeable future.

Not sure what you mean by driving efficiently. Fuel costs/mileage, or total cost/mile driven? In my case, keeping vehicle investment down is the best overall cost efficiency. My car lease will be up in 6 months & I'm switching to a $!5K lower cost vehicle.
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Old 08-28-2020, 11:13 PM   #34
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They just ask for your income, have never verified it for us. They mostly depend on your credit report.

We have been retired for 10+ years and whenever asked, on a car loan or credit card or whatever, I say our income is $120,000. Nobody has blinked an eye, nobody has asked for verification.
You and I have the same income
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Old 08-28-2020, 11:14 PM   #35
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Congratulations. I've owned Toyotas for the last 25 years and been very satisfied with their reliability - which is very important to me.

They keep going on forever with minimal expenses.
Yes, DW owns a 23 yr old Toyota, and refuses to buy a new one as they are ugly
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New Car or Blow that dough?
Old 08-29-2020, 03:22 AM   #36
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New Car or Blow that dough?

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Ya think $2 gas will be around forever? Good luck with that! Driving cheap wasn't my goal......driving efficiently was.
Congrats on your new car! Definitely hope you are enjoying the ride immensely. Appears U balanced purchase with your ER income so Why Not!

We all know cars are not equity builders unless itís the rare collections type - 1976 Toyota Corona $700
in 1988 sold $1000 after 3yrs driving 1989 Toyota truck 2x4 new drove 200k miles 10yrs sold now DW
2016 Toyo 4Runner acquired 2018 drive till it stops.

Iím thinking of buying a 911 myself...lol. Read that ER net worth continues to grow for many youíre income $120k Toyota lot less than Porsche

It would seems so many are content with leaving their savings behind especially cash savings but Iím ok spending ~enough assets left to boost heirs.

Did I say Porsche? Iíll also keep the Benz
I like these discussions helps Me to enjoy myself
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Old 08-29-2020, 04:08 AM   #37
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Enjoy the new wheels!
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Old 08-29-2020, 07:28 AM   #38
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I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?
They don't pay for themselves.... but 5-year cost of ownership is a typical metric of overall cost and it seems to me that the 5-year cost of ownership of a hybrid that is not driven much will be very high compared to the gas version.

So that is a hurdle for those for whom cost is an important aspect. For others, the environmental benefits of a hybrid is worth the additional cost.

To each their own.... its their money. FWIW, the 5-year cost of ownership are similar based on 15k miles a year, I suspect that the gas version 5-year cost of ownership is less than the hybrid version based on 7k miles a year.
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Old 08-29-2020, 08:27 AM   #39
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I'm not sure about current models, but in the past the hybrid model Camry often had options that were an upgrade on the comparable ICE version, bringing the initial price close to parity.

If you are a buy and drive it into the ground type, I suspect the hybrid would pan out, even in low mileage situations, because the lower fuel cost would have time to catch up. Some maintenance items are lower too -- pretty easy to get 100K+ miles on hybrid's brakes.

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They don't pay for themselves.... but 5-year cost of ownership is a typical metric of overall cost and it seems to me that the 5-year cost of ownership of a hybrid that is not driven much will be very high compared to the gas version.

So that is a hurdle for those for whom cost is an important aspect. For others, the environmental benefits of a hybrid is worth the additional cost.

To each their own.... its their money. FWIW, the 5-year cost of ownership are similar based on 15k miles a year, I suspect that the gas version 5-year cost of ownership is less than the hybrid version based on 7k miles a year.
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:35 AM   #40
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They don't pay for themselves.... but 5-year cost of ownership is a typical metric of overall cost and it seems to me that the 5-year cost of ownership of a hybrid that is not driven much will be very high compared to the gas version.

So that is a hurdle for those for whom cost is an important aspect. For others, the environmental benefits of a hybrid is worth the additional cost.

To each their own.... its their money. FWIW, the 5-year cost of ownership are similar based on 15k miles a year, I suspect that the gas version 5-year cost of ownership is less than the hybrid version based on 7k miles a year.
The other advantage of a hybrid is the driving range. My 2012 Camry could go over 600 miles on a tank. The newer ones get better mileage than the 2012 but also have a smaller tank so the range may not be more. My RAV4 Hybrid goes well over 550 miles on a full tank. I imagine that people who need that kind of range probably drive much more than 10,000 miles a year so the hybrid makes more sense.
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