We tried to live within a budget, but we can't

[FANOFJESUS]

Last year I spent $15 on clothes.
I am up to $40 this year.

Tell your wife about thrift stores.
Sound like you just take it out of the blow the dough category if you go over.

 

[NW-Bound]

I dunno the OP has kind of a history of threads like this.ie..just enough angst that some posters aren't sure if he's stressed out about it, just venting or looking for a way to save money...

Yes, the OP showed some angst about some categories of spending. I don't know where he is with respect to the 4% WR rule of thumb. He sounded conflicted.

And then we have RobbieB who said he consistently exceeded the 4% WR, and he ain't scared. Nobody gives him any hard time about that.

People are free to spend their own money as they see fit. They are not spending mine. Even I don't spend my money.

 

[Dtail]

onth.

Someone just posted their combined grocery/dining number of $60K a year. I hope that's a typo but either way, I don't care.

2 years before we retired and were both working hard long hours, we never cooked and had many glorious expensive meals in NYC.
Our food actual expense was 40k yearly and I knew others who spent more, so 60k might not be a typo.
Needless to say we moved to FLA and cut our total expenses by around 60% or wouldn't have been able to retire.

 

[brett]

We could care less what anyone else spends of food,clothing, whatever.

It is not our business nor would we bother commenting on it.

Really....who cares about someone else's food budget enough to criticize it?

I do not care if they spend their days eating hot dogs or caviar. Whatever floats their boat is their concern. Completely meaningless to us.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, the OP showed some angst about some categories of spending. I don't know where he is with respect to the 4% WR rule of thumb. He sounded conflicted.

And then we have RobbieB who said he consistently exceeded the 4% WR, and he ain't scared. Nobody gives him any hard time about that.

People are free to spend their own money as they see fit. They are not spending mine. Even I don't spend my money.

I'd be happy to spend your money for you..

 

[corn18]

I think one thing I was trying to convey is that a budget is very dangerous if it's not based on actuals. Another area I messed up was cars. I put in a new Honda Accord LX every 5 years (2 cars, so we keep them for 10 years). I know we keep our cars a long while, so the 10 year part works for us. But I know darn well we won't buy an Accord LX unless we have to. So when I updated our base spending to reflect actuals, I put in BMW money for the cars. If we decide that the Accord LX is now our cup of tea, we will save a lot of money. I think that works better than hoping we can spend less on cars and then blowing the budget when we can't/won't.

Hope is not a strategy when it comes to retirement finances.

 

[tb001]

We could care less what anyone else spends of food,clothing, whatever.

It is not our business nor would we bother commenting on it.

Really....who cares about someone else's food budget enough to criticize it?

I do not care if they spend their days eating hot dogs or caviar. Whatever floats their boat is their concern. Completely meaningless to us.

I enjoy hearing about others spending habits. And find it interesting that I aspire to both a $5k/mo food budget and a $400/mo one!

We shaved off about 10% of our food budget when we stopped working full time by cutting the easy dinners out when we didn’t feel like cooking. I’ve shaved off another 10% by buying in bulk and shopping discounts. But even with a lot of effort, we’re still well over $400/mo. Closer to $2k for a family of four. When I see the uber low budgets I’m not sure if it’s because we’re in a higher col area, eat completely different things, have a larger family, or I’m just a bad shopper! We could easily spend far more just by shopping at the regular vons or Albertsons near us.

 

[NW-Bound]

I'd be happy to spend your money for you..

I am certain it would make you veddy veddy happy.

But would it make me happy? It's me I care the most about.

 

[W2R]

I think this is it. I am still uncomfortable with the idea of retirement. Even though the data show I am fine. I retired because I was bored at my job and they offered me a hellofa buyout. I went from needing to work until I was 60 to being able to fat FIRE @ 55 in the span of 2 years.

None of my friends are retired and I get the "what are you going to do with yourself" and "when are you going to get another job" vibe.

So I guess I am going through the early retirement jitters because of the sudden change.

It helps a lot to come on here and just chat about it. I do need to be more tolerant of criticism.

I hope I wasn't one of the overly critical ones! If so I'm sorry - - didn't mean to be like that. I don't think negatively of you at all, in any way.

I had a hard time figuring out what the OP (you) were interested in reading from us. Part of that is that it's just nearly impossible for me to comprehend early retirement jitters, since I didn't happen to have them. To me, retirement is a huge gift and it's been the best time in my life by far. So anyway, I thought you were looking for help in your LBYM efforts and since you are spending more than most of us, I was perplexed.

Sure, people say to me "what are you going to do with yourself" but they stop when I smile happily and say, "whatever I want to do!". When I was first retired, I followed that by a list of 20-30 activities that would make their eyes glaze over (things like "grow roses, write a book, learn to paint, study Mexican Spanish, do a 5K, get an MBA, resume playing piano", (blah blah blah, none of which I ever did).

Nobody but people from work have ever asked me if I was going to get another job, and TBH I haven't seen any of them for years.

Also, for me retirement was not sudden. I knew for a decade exactly when I was going to retire (the first day I could get my pension and retiree health coverage). I was SO ready to retire - - and determined to retire ASAP whether I had the money or not.

BTW, I'd suggest looking for some friends that are retired or working at more low key jobs right now. My guess is that your friends are just so focused on their own retirement efforts that it's hard for them to relate to your situation.

 

[pacergal]

I think this is it. I am still uncomfortable with the idea of retirement. Even though the data show I am fine. I retired because I was bored at my job and they offered me a hellofa buyout. I went from needing to work until I was 60 to being able to fat FIRE @ 55 in the span of 2 years.

None of my friends are retired and I get the "what are you going to do with yourself" and "when are you going to get another job" vibe.

So I guess I am going through the early retirement jitters because of the sudden change.

It helps a lot to come on here and just chat about it. I do need to be more tolerant of criticism.

(Bolded by me), I hear you on this. I am in year 5, I returned to work on call every year, including this one. I am finally fully retired, with no plans to ever return to work again, as I now feel comfortable in our spending pattern, income, and savings plan. I review our spending and our investments every month. There may come a time when I don't, but for now, I still check. I love retirement, but the financials, I am still a worrier about. But Life is Great on a day to day basis.
OP--your jitters and worries will eventually ease up.

 

[MarieIG]

I think OP was just starting a conversation. I don't see anything shocking about OP's spend. It's a little above budget, but still in the ok zone. I know women who drop half the clothing budget at a high end salon on a monthly basis with a color, cut, style, manicure, pedicure with tips; and others who think nothing about dropping $2,500 on a bag.

I recall being a little surprised when OP decided upon a 52k yard reno w/n a week of retirement, but hopefully he and DW are enjoying that and it will last many years.

Not sure why it's ok to spend an insane amount of $ on fancy beef, recreational vehicles and first class travel, but posters seem to want OP's wife to perform a Swedish death cleaning.

And so, my contribution to all this, convert a spare bedroom to a closet for DW to play in. Make sure the clothing rods are really, really strong. They sound like gunshots when they break.

 

[corn18]

I think OP was just starting a conversation. I don't see anything shocking about OP's spend. It's a little above budget, but still in the ok zone. I know women who drop half the clothing budget at a high end salon on a monthly basis with a color, cut, style, manicure, pedicure with tips; and others who think nothing about dropping $2,500 on a bag.

I recall being a little surprised when OP decided upon a 52k yard reno w/n a week of retirement, but hopefully he and DW are enjoying that and it will last many years.

Not sure why it's ok to spend an insane amount of $ on fancy beef, recreational vehicles and first class travel, but posters seem to want OP's wife to perform a Swedish death cleaning.

And so, my contribution to all this, convert a spare bedroom to a closet for DW to play in. Make sure the clothing rods are really, really strong. They sound like gunshots when they break.

The landscaping is looking great so far. The patio is almost done and we have one more bed to put in. I ended up doing the irrigation work myself as I enjoy it. Dang if it isn't a lot harder to dig a trench than sell a billion dollar weapons system. But it felt great to do manual labor. Also doing the landscape lighting myself with guidance from my landscape architect. Just started that and it's a lot of fun, but again, a lot of digging.

As for cost, it has grown due to changes. We're up to $64k. Even after we spend all of that, we will have more savings then when I retired in Mar, so I guess that's good.

 

[RobbieB]

Yeah Baby!

Like I said, I've been over budget (over 4% WR) for 7 straight years and I have 50% more dough now than seven years ago. Why worry and stress over spending when you are making dough faster than you can spend it?

Have fun!

 

[brett]

Yeah Baby!

Like I said, I've been over budget (over 4% WR) for 7 straight years and I have 50% more dough now than seven years ago. Why worry and stress over spending when you are making dough faster than you can spend it?

Have fun!

EXACTLY my thought. Really....how much better can it be

You cannot take it with you. Or have you decided not to go?

Will your spouse buying one less blouse or picking up a lobster instead of hamburger make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things given your financial situation? I doubt it.

Live longer and enjoy yourself more. Don't sweat the small stuff!

Enjoy your good fortune, your good health, and the good things in your life. Retirement is too short to be a worry wart or a misery boots.

 

[MarieIG]

The landscaping is looking great so far. The patio is almost done and we have one more bed to put in. I ended up doing the irrigation work myself as I enjoy it. Dang if it isn't a lot harder to dig a trench than sell a billion dollar weapons system. But it felt great to do manual labor. Also doing the landscape lighting myself with guidance from my landscape architect. Just started that and it's a lot of fun, but again, a lot of digging.

As for cost, it has grown due to changes. We're up to $64k. Even after we spend all of that, we will have more savings then when I retired in Mar, so I guess that's good.

 

[cyber888]

We can afford it, so I'm not sweating it. I still like tracking everything. Always have. My spreadsheet goes back to 1996. It's always interesting going back and looking at what we spent money on back then.

I don't make a big deal out of it with her and we never fight over money.

Don't sweat the overspending then. Tell you what - revise your budget to what you're spending now. Because that's the budget you are enjoying. Increase your budget .. you can afford a higher budget.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, pretty easy. If you blow the budget but can afford it then you need a bigger budget. Or better yet, no budget -

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner! NO BUDGET. Works for us.

We've never used budgeting and have never had any serious money issues (no - we didn't make tons of money.) We are just naturally frugal. My idea of budgeting is to watch the NW once a year. If it goes up, we must be on budget

I actually ENCOURAGE DW to buy more clothes. Her closet is bulging and she's taken over half my space BUT she buys clothes at thrift shops and "good" stores on clearance. I encourage her, because, God love her, she gets a real charge out of finding just the "right" blouse or sweater or Capris. Her thrill and fulfillment is worth whatever it costs - and it doesn't cost much. I swear she gets the same pleasure from hand-coordinating a new "outfit" as I do buying a new (to me) car. It's just her thing and she deserves that pleasure. She is, after all my DW!

I on the other hand, need a belt. I've needed one for a year (last one disintegrated in the Hawaiian salt air.) I never think to look for one when we are out shopping. DW will eventually find one and buy it for me for Christmas or BD. In the mean time, I just pull my 1 of 3 pair of black shorts (same make and model) up over my belly and all is covered by my one of 6 Aloha shirts (I have TWO of my favorite Aloha shirt - they cost $1 each at Central Union Church thrift shop at S. Beratania St. at Punahou. They used to be the "service shirt" for one of the major hotels so I think they still have a Cintas label.)

So I donate my half of the clothing budget to DW.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I enjoy hearing about others spending habits. And find it interesting that I aspire to both a $5k/mo food budget and a $400/mo one!

We shaved off about 10% of our food budget when we stopped working full time by cutting the easy dinners out when we didn’t feel like cooking. I’ve shaved off another 10% by buying in bulk and shopping discounts. But even with a lot of effort, we’re still well over $400/mo. Closer to $2k for a family of four. When I see the uber low budgets I’m not sure if it’s because we’re in a higher col area, eat completely different things, have a larger family, or I’m just a bad shopper! We could easily spend far more just by shopping at the regular vons or Albertsons near us.

For a $400ish food budget for two -

3 pounds of produce @ avg $1 a pound (50% organic) = $3
1 wild caught salmon pack = $1.27
2 ounces nuts and seeds = .50
Grains and beans (cooked from dried) = .50

= $5.27 a day per person for food. I have run this through a nutrition program and it should get us 100% of the daily value of nutrients and all our calories. Plus I add in extra in the budget for items like organic frozen berries for smoothies, coffee, spices, tea, raisins, etc.

That is my baseline budget, which I base on Blue Zone kind of foods. On paper we should be able to spend $450 easily a month for healthy food, but then when we get to the store we always end up spending more $100 or $200 more in a month.

We live in HCOL area, but there are good prices at the discount stores, ethnic markets, produce market, and a farm to table delivery service (organic produce at half off supermarket prices). A lot of the staples I order online. The Guardian had an article recently on food prices and said that farmers see 15 cents on the dollar. The rest goes to processing and marketing, which is controlled by a handful of major corporations. If you can find ways to buy directly from farmers and limit how much processed food you buy, you can save on that 85 cents that goes to marketing and processing.

 

[Exchme]

I do wonder whether OP is building in a tax problem later. He listed $110K expenses with only $10K of it in income taxes. That level of spending implies a certain amount of assets, so if a lot of his money is tax deferred, he could be hit with bigger tax bills in the future. Just make sure there is a plan and not a surprise.

 

[tb001]

Ah, that’s interesting. I think our biggest downfall spending wise is that we’re pretty inflexible with what we eat. We eat a lot of fish (salmon and tuna at least once a week). And tons of fresh fruit/berries. I just feel like I invest a LOT of energy trying to spend less and we’re still way above what other people spend!

I try to balance the more expensive dinners with pork or chicken thighs, and buy fruit that’s in season, but it still adds up. As do DH’s lunches out, but I’m putting those in the same category as the OP’s wife’s clothing habit. We’ll call it his hobby!

 

[corn18]

I do wonder whether OP is building in a tax problem later. He listed $110K expenses with only $10K of it in income taxes. That level of spending implies a certain amount of assets, so if a lot of his money is tax deferred, he could be hit with bigger tax bills in the future. Just make sure there is a plan and not a surprise.

My current plan has us converting most of my 401k in the 12% (then 15%) tax bracket starting next year @ age 56. Going to keep about $100k @ age 72 in case we have giant medical bills later on.

I can also tax loss harvest all of my long term capital gains in my taxable account @ 0% at the same time. That's why my initial Roth conversions are small.

This is what our tax plan looks like (nominal 2021 $$$$):

 

[tb001]

Did you work with someone to come up with that plan, or put it together yourself? I need to do something like that.

 

[brett]

We stop worrying or looking at the numbers a long time ago when we realized that it did not matter any more. Our expenses would never exceed our incomes.

We had enough. And we are incredibly thankful for it. End of.

As long as your budget is below your income it is only a number.

 

[corn18]

Did you work with someone to come up with that plan, or put it together yourself? I need to do something like that.

I did it myself. I love spreadsheets and data. I have a 1040 and the SS worksheet built into my tax spreadsheet. I can run scenarios for different conversion rates, tax gain harvesting, death of a spouse, reduced SS, when I take SS and a few others. What I found though is that it really didn't matter much, even at the corner cases. The only scenario that really hurt, tax wise, was if we did no conversions and I died around RMD time. Even that wasn't terrible.

 

[beernutzbob]

My wife as a general rule is on my case to update my wardrobe. I visited my brother in Stamford CT recently and went into NYC 3 days I was there.

I was wearing jeans one day and it was so hot in the city I was drenched from walking around. I couldn't take it anymore so I stopped in a TJ Maxx on Park Avenue and bought a huge amount of clothes for under $80 with tax.

DW was very excited to hear I went clothes shopping in NYC but enthusiasm waned when she heard where I shopped. Still, she liked everything I picked out.

I changed into some of my new clothes in the bathroom of a Chinatown restaurant while they were making my lunch.

I can't imagine spending $600 in a month on clothes much less average that. My last work suit from Jos A Bank was only around $400 and that was bought a long time ago.