Wealth Accumulation

[NW-Bound]

I don’t know what those sites are, but my point is folks are advertising I HAVE LOTS OF MONEY. People prey on things like that.

I remember reading about a rich guy using his money to get young gold diggers. They were taken to Europe, stayed in 5-star resorts, living a dream life.

Then, just as they thought they had this guy under a spell, he told them he was tired of them, and they should leave. Very brutal.

It made the news because one of the girls became destitute and committed suicide. Darn, where did I read this, and how could I find it again?

 

[dmpi]

Consider yourself very lucky if you've found that special someone to spend your life with because beyond that all relationships are somewhat transactional at one level or another.

 

[Koolau]

Consider yourself very lucky if you've found that special someone to spend your life with because beyond that all relationships are somewhat transactional at one level or another.

Yeah, other than my surviving sister, my DW is the person I've known longest - and she has been a friend longer than any other friend I have.



I've known her for 70 years now. Friends almost that long. YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

How much wealth does one need?

Perhaps it's more important to have someone to share it with?

 

[wrigley]

Hopefully after tonight I'll be able to say Lottery.

The 1.58 BILLION Mega Millions jackpot winning ticket was sold at a Publix grocery store that I frequent just 5.8 miles from my house. Unfortunately, I didn't buy my ticket there.

Mike

 

[Winemaker]

Started w*rking and saving at 14 doing yardw*rk for neighbors. DW and both had jobs through HS and college, she had negative NW after a divorce. After we married, we received a $20k inheritance that funded a house purchase. I was able to save 16% and 6% match for my entire career. Fully funded tIRAs for both of us as well as Roths whenever they became available, for our entire careers. DW fully funded a 403b after kids started grade school. We bought a rental duplex when DD started college; bought a 4 unit apartment building 2 years later. Still have both. Mr Market has been gracious and we may have oversaved, if both of us drop dead. Nursing/elder care can be self funded, but would whittle the nest egg. 6 figure annual mailbox money in 5 years when I start SS. Equal amount in investment/future RMD withdrawals. So blessed and thankful.

 

[gayl]

After my divorce I owed more than I was worth. That's just what it costs to get out of a bad marriage. Plus I was upside down in a house where the mortgage equalled my take home. So I did triple shifts every other weekend as a clerk on the Med-Surg floor. (Days - PMs - Days). Bid on / got a directors position & things took off. Raises split: 1/3 each to debt, mortgage, investments (457 & brokerage). Once debt paid off I relaxed a little. Once mortgage pd off I left govt employment. Worked HARD for 22 yrs. Then PT for another 8 to get to a solid 30 in SSA. Called it done [emoji818] and haven't looked back

 

[BadgerNCarolina]

My divorce at 45 didn't send me negative but did take over 80% of my NW. Any chance of an inheritance to me evaporated with the divorce although DD is already getting some directly from her GPs on that side, so that is good.

I'm happily remarried but DW brought next to no NW. The first thing we did after marriage was save to pay off her ancient school loans. FIL (divorced) and MIL (divorced and widowed) have no property or investments. Both are or will be on government assistance, as is my DM (widowed). We help them all here and there, and they've all lived with us at some point.

DW had great earning potential when we met and, with encouragement and support, she has now eclipsed my income. We are 23 months from our target date and number. Assuming we get there, and barring anything unforeseen, everything we'll have will have been generated from the fruits of our own labor and investment of the proceeds. No windfalls or payouts of any kind.

Hi - not trying to derail the thread, but I'm confused with this and with the person who said they went negative with a divorce. Not trying to pry, so it's okay if you say that it's none of my business - but I'm genuinely curious how a divorce could cost 80% of net worth, when I would think that it should top out around 50%+ costs. Thanks!!

 

[O2Bfree]

Hi - not trying to derail the thread, but I'm confused with this and with the person who said they went negative with a divorce. Not trying to pry, so it's okay if you say that it's none of my business - but I'm genuinely curious how a divorce could cost 80% of net worth, when I would think that it should top out around 50%+ costs. Thanks!!

There could be years of child support and alimony or other support payments to the ex. Child support in my state can run 45% of your income. Plus then you might still need to pay for things when the kids stay with you. Plus college if they go.

 

[aja8888]

Hi - not trying to derail the thread, but I'm confused with this and with the person who said they went negative with a divorce. Not trying to pry, so it's okay if you say that it's none of my business - but I'm genuinely curious how a divorce could cost 80% of net worth, when I would think that it should top out around 50%+ costs. Thanks!!

Keep in mind that community property is not always split 50 - 50 (depends on the state). And then there could be payments outside of that like alimony, child support and whatever else the judge feels you should pay for in addition to what the law says.

Oh, and throw in a QUADRO split of your future pension.

(Ask me how I know)

 

[Surewhitey]

Hi - not trying to derail the thread, but I'm confused with this and with the person who said they went negative with a divorce. Not trying to pry, so it's okay if you say that it's none of my business - but I'm genuinely curious how a divorce could cost 80% of net worth, when I would think that it should top out around 50%+ costs. Thanks!!

Pops had his 4th (I think) wife run up a bunch of credit in their name & then left him. She then sold a bunch of stuff & stopped paying on it and he basically had to go bankrupt to start fresh. He probably went 50/50 on the wife #3 and then the nail in the coffin on the last, again (I think). He had a pot to pee in upon dying, but not much more...He obviously didn't teach me anything financially except what "not to do". Marrying multiple times is the big problem & I'm still on #1 and only.

 

[Andre1969]

Hi - not trying to derail the thread, but I'm confused with this and with the person who said they went negative with a divorce. Not trying to pry, so it's okay if you say that it's none of my business - but I'm genuinely curious how a divorce could cost 80% of net worth, when I would think that it should top out around 50%+ costs. Thanks!!

My divorce probably put me into negative NW territory for a bit. When we split in 1996, to make things simple, I kept all the assets, but also assumed all the debt. I basically gave her $3,000 and an '88 LeBaron turbo coupe, to make her go away. She wasn't working. However, her mother was willing to hire a lawyer, to help make my life miserable, if needed.

When we split, I was about $30,000 in debt, mostly credit cards. I had maybe $3,000 in mutual funds, and perhaps a few thousand in checking. I owed around $77-78K on a condo that might have been worth $85-90K.

So, adding all that up, say $8K in equity, and at best $6000 between the checking/mutual funds. That's $14K. Throw the debt at it, and that's a negative $16K.

Oh, I did have a few thousand $ in savings bonds, but I tended to keep them separate, mentally, because my Mom had gotten them for me, rather than me earning them myself.

Now, if you throw ALL assets into the mix, cars and everything else, I might have been positive. But, back then I doubt a '68 Dart with 300,000+ miles on it was worth much. And the collector car market wasn't like it is today, so I doubt my '67 Catalina and '57 DeSoto were worth all that much.

 

[aja8888]

I went through a California divorce in 1992 owning two houses and having two teenage daughters. My attorney fees alone were 6 figures plus. Ended up pretty much broke and couldn't get a credit card. It took me 30 years to get most of it back again. I got to keep the daughters, she spent the college funds we had saved.

 

[vafoodie]

Retired teacher married to a retired govt. worker. Funded our retirement vehicles them was surprised with a $600,000 inheritance a few years ago.

 

[Koolau]

My divorce probably put me into negative NW territory for a bit. When we split in 1996, to make things simple, I kept all the assets, but also assumed all the debt. I basically gave her $3,000 and an '88 LeBaron turbo coupe, to make her go away. She wasn't working. However, her mother was willing to hire a lawyer, to help make my life miserable, if needed.

When we split, I was about $30,000 in debt, mostly credit cards. I had maybe $3,000 in mutual funds, and perhaps a few thousand in checking. I owed around $77-78K on a condo that might have been worth $85-90K.

So, adding all that up, say $8K in equity, and at best $6000 between the checking/mutual funds. That's $14K. Throw the debt at it, and that's a negative $16K.


Oh, I did have a few thousand $ in savings bonds, but I tended to keep them separate, mentally, because my Mom had gotten them for me, rather than me earning them myself.

Now, if you throw ALL assets into the mix, cars and everything else, I might have been positive. But, back then I doubt a '68 Dart with 300,000+ miles on it was worth much. And the collector car market wasn't like it is today, so I doubt my '67 Catalina and '57 DeSoto were worth all that much.

Hmmmm. That Turbo LeBaron might have been worth a fair amount, depending on condition!

 

[O2Bfree]

Hats off to all you who got skuttled financially in a divorce, but managed to recover and even retire early! It happened to DH, and he rarely complained about it, always had money to do the things we wanted to do, and managed to retire at 57. Of course I helped a little in that equation too.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Hi - not trying to derail the thread, but I'm confused with this and with the person who said they went negative with a divorce. Not trying to pry, so it's okay if you say that it's none of my business - but I'm genuinely curious how a divorce could cost 80% of net worth, when I would think that it should top out around 50%+ costs. Thanks!!

As others have noted, a divorce where the spouse may not have an income or low earning potential is going involve alimony payments (or some lump sum reflecting the PV of those payments) - and the longer the marriage the larger the figure, typically calc'd as a multiple of income. In addition, child support can be very significant, basically courts take the position that the children should get to maintain the lifestyle they were used to before the divorce (ex. lessons, private school, stay in same home, etc.). Then, on top of that the divorce proceedings can drag on for years if contentious, adding up to crazy legal fees. Plus, there could be therapy required for the kids - that can add up to tens of thousands of dollars. I have a buddy whose divorce is costing seven figures in these kinds of expenses, and it's not even finished yet as lawyers are still fighting. He's going from a mid-seven-figure NW to probably something close to zero by the time it's all done. And he's not a young guy. I hope there's an inheritance in his future - but not before the divorces is final - some states consider that community property, some don't if its not commingled.

 

[aja8888]

As others have noted, a divorce where the spouse may not have an income or low earning potential is going involve alimony payments (or some lump sum reflecting the PV of those payments) - and the longer the marriage the larger the figure, typically calc'd as a multiple of income. In addition, child support can be very significant, basically courts take the position that the children should get to maintain the lifestyle they were used to before the divorce (ex. lessons, private school, stay in same home, etc.). Then, on top of that the divorce proceedings can drag on for years if contentious, adding up to crazy legal fees. Plus, there could be therapy required for the kids - that can add up to tens of thousands of dollars. I have a buddy whose divorce is costing seven figures in these kinds of expenses, and it's not even finished yet as lawyers are still fighting. He's going from a mid-seven-figure NW to probably something close to zero by the time it's all done. And he's not a young guy. I hope there's an inheritance in his future - but not before the divorces is final - some states consider that community property, some don't if its not commingled.

Family Law attorneys like to keep the "battle" going as long as they can since they can still bill at $350 - $500 an hour. Ask me how I know!

 

[Car-Guy]

Family Law attorneys like to keep the "battle" going as long as they can since they can still bill at $350 - $500 an hour. Ask me how I know!

Lawyers have to survive too... How else are they going to support their fancy cars, homes, boats, planes, and lifestyles.

 

[athena53]

Hi - not trying to derail the thread, but I'm confused with this and with the person who said they went negative with a divorce. Not trying to pry, so it's okay if you say that it's none of my business - but I'm genuinely curious how a divorce could cost 80% of net worth, when I would think that it should top out around 50%+ costs. Thanks!!

Few assets to split but you're responsible for:

Existing credit card debt or car loans
Debt to buy the other spouse out of their share of the marital home
As mentioned earlier, ongoing obligations such as child support, alimony and college.

None of that happened to me but my Ex had heavy credit card debt on cards in his name only, incurred for personal expenses (not kid's clothes, family vacations, house repairs, etc., all of which I covered). He could easily have ended up with negative net worth if we hadn't had so much equity in the house.

 

[scrinch]

Parents helped with college degree. Was lucky to get a job I loved and that paid reasonably well ($30k/yr in '84) out of grad school. We lived below our means and saved the balance of income from the start. Invested savings in index funds and let it ride. Lived overseas for a few years and got nice overseas bonus while there. Always maxed out our 401k matching contributions. I worked until age 57, and DW is still (voluntarily) working at 61. DW just inherited about $1M last year and we are now just into 8 figures.

 

[INTJ10]

Just saved in our 401k's and lived below our means. No inheritance and put both kids through college without them taking debt.

 

[Koolau]

Hats off to all you who got skuttled financially in a divorce, but managed to recover and even retire early! It happened to DH, and he rarely complained about it, always had money to do the things we wanted to do, and managed to retire at 57. Of course I helped a little in that equation too.

By not divorcing him - oops, er, I mean by bringing money to the marriage.

 

[Badger]

Family Law attorneys like to keep the "battle" going as long as they can since they can still bill at $350 - $500 an hour. Ask me how I know!

+1 At least that was my experience. Even though my ex-wife and I agreed on how everything was to be divided and I wrote our agreement with her signed confirmation and gave it to the lawyer to transcribe into "legal-ese" he managed to screw it up twice. I finally got him to write it up properly but it cost more. It should have been an easy few hours in one day to complete but he was either greedy or stupid. I'm not about to even consider any other reasons.
Divorce is difficult enough without lawyers trying to create more friction and "milk" the couple for more money to line their pockets.

Cheers!

 

[Andre1969]

Hmmmm. That Turbo LeBaron might have been worth a fair amount, depending on condition!

Now that I think about it, that LeBaron was another debt, at the time. My uncle had sold it to us, soon after we got married, for a bargain price of $2,000. Only problem was, I hadn't paid him for it yet!

When I let the wife have it, it had about 90,000 miles on it. Some family members were annoyed with me, saying I should have given her the Dart, rather than the LeBaron, if I wanted to give her a car. However, I trusted the Dart. Even though it had over 300,000 miles on it, when it broke, I could usually fix it myself. Or, it was at least relatively cheap to fix.

Sometime around 1997, that LeBaron pretty much gave out, with around 110-115,000 miles on it. The a/c was shot, power antenna was broken. Transmission was leaking. Turbo was also shot. The head gasket blew, and she and her mother found a mechanic to put a used head and a new gasket on it. But it still wasn't running right. So I borrowed it back from her, and took it to my own mechanic. Turns out a bunch of wires and vacuum hoses hadn't been put back together correctly when they did the head, but on top of that, he did a compression check, and said that two of the four cylinders were really low. His advice was to not put another penny into the car.

Ultimately, I think the car died in her Granddad's driveway, which is where she was staying after we split.

The ex-wife ended up selling it to me for $90, a bit later, and she used that money for tickets to go see Faith No More at some place in DC called the 9:30 Club or something like that. Somehow, I was able to get it started (I think it just needed a jump) and we got it over to where I was staying, at my Grandmom's (thank God for grandparents!).

I ended up selling it for parts, and got something like $700-800. It still had a good body, and the interior was in nice shape.

As for the Dart, I had stopped using it as daily transportation in 1997, when I rescued a '79 Newport from the junkyard, which in turn gave way to a succession of newer cars, until I was finally able to buy a new 2000 Intrepid, in November 1999...my first brand new car ever. The Dart got used less and less, and finally, one day towards the end of 2001, it wouldn't start anymore. I think it was just the fuel pump, or even just a rotted line somewhere. If you poured fuel down the carb, it would run for a few seconds, and then cut off. By that point though, I had too many cars, and the Dart had over 330,000 miles on it. I let it sit, figuring I'd get to it "one day". When I ended up moving in across the street from Grandmom, I used another vehicle to drag it over there. That "one day" never came, and eventually I sold it, for $400. I think that was 2008 or 2009. The guy who bought it wanted to restore it. I got a text from him, a few years ago, saying he was still working on it!

**Edit: Oh, and I did finally get around to paying my uncle back, in the fall of 1999, soon after I put the down payment on the Intrepid. Better late than never, I guess!