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06-15-2014, 11:35 AM
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#61
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,438
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So do the percentages line up to specific dollar levels for net worth?
They add up your assets (including market value of real estate) and subtract your liabilities, come up with a simple net figure and line that up against various thresholds?
The graph shows that $2.7 million is the 99 percentile? Doesn't seem that high.
Must go much steeper from 1% to .01% then.
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06-15-2014, 04:48 PM
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#62
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,629
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Multiple posters have mentioned Defined Benefit pensions, and how they should be included.
The data for the wealthometer comes from the Federal Reserve's "Survey of Consumer Finances". I looked to see how the SCF handles pensions, this is the best I've done so far
Quote:
Second, pension wealth is treated differently in the two measures. Assets accruing
through defined benefit (DB) pensions plans are an important component of overall household
wealth but one whose levels cannot be determined unambiguously using the SCF. Pension
recipients, and the SCF by extension, cannot put a value on the assets associated with future or
current DB pension payouts without numerous assumptions.14 We therefore do not include DB
pensions in the measure of household wealth using the SCF
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http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/f.../201346pap.pdf
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06-15-2014, 06:19 PM
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#63
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,684
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It would be nice if the output from this tool were in a tabular form with maybe one row for each percentage point allowing the user to see the dollar amounts where the breakpoints are. Not too difficult to peck around with a binary search type of thing to find them, but that's a PITA.
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06-15-2014, 06:34 PM
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#64
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 180
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I do not agree with the idea of including all household members, but I did include the children for the sake of doing the exercise.
Result was we all ended up in the 98th percentile.
We are not American so it is not really relevant, just a bit of fun.
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06-16-2014, 12:33 AM
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#65
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razztazz
Top 4%. For my pension I divided it by .037. That comports with a 100% safe withdrawal rate. There's probably more than one way to skin that cat but it won'y change your position by much. Top 5%, top 4% ... whatever
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I used your .037 calculation above, and the # came out close to a different calculation I made some time ago, using just some simple math. So maybe I wasn't off that much. But I'm assuming this means you use your annual pension amount divided by .037? (Sorry if this is way too obvious, it's late. )
Would you mind sharing the source of this factor?
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06-16-2014, 03:29 AM
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#66
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,193
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97% per person , 2 people. but living in nyc we feel no where near that level.
i think not only does geographic location matter but how the wealth is spread out may matter.
most here would say someone with 40k in home equity ,20k in the bank and 20k in debt is not doing so well.
but if they have 60k in the bank and 20k in debt we may say they are doing better yet the numbers are the same.
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06-16-2014, 04:45 AM
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#68
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: clearwater
Posts: 439
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These are the financial assets they are counting. No DBP pensions.
+ Financial Assets Deposits Sight accounts
Savings accounts
Shares
Bonds
Mutual funds
Business Non-self-employed
Money owed to the household as private loans
Private pension plans
Other Options, futures, royalties, etc.
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06-16-2014, 05:20 AM
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#69
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Oregon - Dry Side
Posts: 247
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1%, two people in household and barely squeeking in. However, I certainly don't feel rich - given the cost of living large these days, rich is something over $10MM net worth.
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06-16-2014, 09:00 AM
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#70
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 880
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Feeling rich happens when you get a large windfall, like a very big inheritance, the company stock options hit the big time, or winning the lottery. Something big and something sudden. It changes your spending habits (of course not of those on this forum). With the slow and steady accumulation of wealth over a lifetime you never feel rich no matter how much you have. And the difference in feeling rich or not is how freely you feel like spending. For me being rich has always been about 10x over what I currently have.
On the other hand I have always felt blessed. Always had enough, even when I ate hamburger with corn meal in college, and now especially when I visit third world countries, or see people struggling here.
One day I will see my last sunset, experience my last summer, setup my last Christmas tree, have my last kiss. Being wealthy really, is living and feeling alive every day.
__________________
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
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06-16-2014, 09:23 AM
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#71
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Conroe, Texas
Posts: 18,731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan
Feeling rich happens when you get a large windfall, like a very big inheritance, the company stock options hit the big time, or winning the lottery. Something big and something sudden. It changes your spending habits (of course not of those on this forum). With the slow and steady accumulation of wealth over a lifetime you never feel rich no matter how much you have. And the difference in feeling rich or not is how freely you feel like spending. For me being rich has always been about 10x over what I currently have.
On the other hand I have always felt blessed. Always had enough, even when I ate hamburger with corn meal in college, and now especially when I visit third world countries, or see people struggling here.
One day I will see my last sunset, experience my last summer, setup my last Christmas tree, have my last kiss. Being wealthy really, is living and feeling alive every day.
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Good thoughts! +1
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06-16-2014, 09:29 AM
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#72
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan
For me being rich has always been about 10x over what I currently have...
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A factor of 5X will do it for me.
That said, I am grateful to have what I now have. And if I can stay at status quo until I croak, I will live very comfortably and have plenty left for my children.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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06-16-2014, 11:17 AM
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#73
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,660
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Why would a private pension count, but not, say, a Federal Government DBP?
Amethyst
Quote:
Originally Posted by rothlev
These are the financial assets they are counting. No DBP pensions.
Private pension plans
.
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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06-16-2014, 11:21 AM
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#74
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarpy
I used your .037 calculation above, and the # came out close to a different calculation I made some time ago, using just some simple math. So maybe I wasn't off that much. But I'm assuming this means you use your annual pension amount divided by .037? (Sorry if this is way too obvious, it's late. )
Would you mind sharing the source of this factor?
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FireCalc. .3% expenses (slop factor to simulate "Real Life" + the pension is not really inflation adjusted. They just throw in a "kicker" most years to keep me in the game)
50/50 Asset Allocation Stocks/ Money Market funds
The 100% SWR is is actually 0.036582 not .037
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06-16-2014, 01:19 PM
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#75
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
Why would a private pension count, but not, say, a Federal Government DBP?
Amethyst
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I think the "private pension" assets they count are 401k, IRA, etc.
See post #62
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06-16-2014, 01:29 PM
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#76
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 7,677
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Thanks for identifying that this Wealthometer is useless for anyone who gets a DB Pension.
Next!
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
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06-16-2014, 05:38 PM
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#77
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: West Tx
Posts: 1,392
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Without the pension, 89. With it, 97 for the two of us. I don't think we are that wealthy!
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06-17-2014, 04:27 PM
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#79
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade
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From the article:
Net worth $500K-$4M is "upper middle class".
Net worth $4M-$20M is "merely rich".
Net worth $20M-$100M is "really rich".
Net worth > $100M is "ultra rich". I think they miss this top bracket: "> $1B is "filthy rich".
Yes, I would consider myself "upper middle class" and am comfortable with that label. I would not be a DIY'er if I were rich.
Do not tax me anymore than already done, please.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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06-17-2014, 04:38 PM
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#80
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,438
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But one of the articles linked earlier said that as little as $1.6 million put you at the top 1%.
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