Well, they fired me. Or they say they are going to.

[street]

Unless they are violating the law.

I agree if a law is broken, they need to be responsible for their actions. A letter from an attorney may do justice and maybe all it takes. The letter needs to be sent to the board or the person at the top.
I would guess that one letter will prove instant results and would dictate my next step to pursue or drop it.

 

[mystang52]

I re-read the prior thread, and now this one. I am not a lawyer. And, like everyone except the OP I don't know details. Reading between the lines, I get the impression that OP is best to just move on. Getting an attorney to take the case might be difficult in and of itself, never mind actually prevailing or even getting an out of court settlement. Just my 2 cents, and that's probably what my advice is worth.

 

[OddGuy]

If there is no severance to be "lost", and if the OP intends to ER anyway, a letter from an attorney can't hurt and may help.

The key is to fire it off, see what happens (or doesn't), and don't get emotionally involved.

 

[Romer]

I don't see how you lose anything talking to an attorney and then making a better educated decision to move on or options the attorney defines

 

[skyking1]

Exactly. The OP will reveal all the details he should be hesitant to post up on the open internet to the right attorney, and get the professional help he needs. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[pacergal]

OP--I am sorry you have been going through this.
It does sound like you and your wife will be able to survive this fine, you can get in her insurance and have the money to cover your budget.
Have you contacted an employment lawyer since your original thread?
So, the questions are:
Do you really want the stress of litigation, which could be ongoing or do you want to enter retirement more relaxed? My choice would be to let it go.
You could be applying to other education jobs now if you wish to continue working. It appears teachers are in great demand, although it sounds like you may have been in college level. Perhaps an excellent teacher in a public high school would be well needed.

Best wishes to you in whatever choice you make.
Life is too short to live it with anger, frustration, and stress.

 

[marko]

From what I see here, I'd lawyer up. Friend of mine was let go for no good reason BUT he was 57 years old. He sued on age discrimination and got 2 year's pay out of it.

My own brother was being hassled and harassed at his job for months until in one meeting he said the magic words: "Do I have to get my lawyer involved here??". Within the hour everything was 'just fine and dandy' with apologies all around.

The minute they hear 'lawyer' they'll poop their pants. Don't ask for the job, just get the money. You can often get a settlement without even going to court.

True: We had a guy at my company who was accused by another of harassment. HR was ready to fire the guy. I was there when word came that the offender's lawyer called. Within 3 seconds the 'harassed' was suddenly blamed for causing the trouble and 'we need to think about this more'. It was instantaneous and I must say amazing and troubling how quickly management could turn that corner.

 

[ivinsfan]

Well OP you got 18 months of paid employment after you posted your link thread. Have you looked for other work? Have you done anything proactive except waiting for the axe to fall?




Since you have seen this coming for a long time and are still undecided about getting a lawyer or making waves, I suspect you really don't want to pursue a remedy and that's fine. These things can be very unpleasant and stressful.



It's sounds really odd but bringing up the they are younger and different genders and races then I am can lead to very unpleasant unintended stuff coming back on you. That's a shame but it is our present day reality.



You asked so in your shoes I'd just play it out and leave...

 

[SAinMinn]

How do you go 4.5 years without a performance appraisal? Or even 1.5 years - why didn't you ask at some point in the past few years?

Besides that, and no matter what path you take, try to put the bitter assumptions behind you. They aren't serving you or your wife very well.

Thanks. I did ask for performance appraisals. I wrote to the administration asking for them to identify anything I needed to improve to keep my job. Radio silence. Yes, I have the emails.

 

[ivinsfan]

Thanks. I did ask for performance appraisals. I wrote to the administration asking for them to identify anything I needed to improve to keep my job. Radio silence. Yes, I have the emails.

This doesn't really matter unless they treated other employees differently then they treated you. The vague restructuring or moving in a different direction will the their CYA.

 

[SAinMinn]

You say that the faculty gets to call the shots, including hiring and firing. They certainly answer to someone, ultimately the board of directors. You mention that this is a non-profit organization. Where do they get their funding ? Do the people providing the funding know the organizations employment practices ?

If I were on the board I would want to know. If I was a donor to this non-profit organization I would want to know.

Without getting an attorney involved you could scare the daylights out of them if you asked them this question. "Does your Directors & Officers Liability Insurance include Employment Practices Liability coverage ?" If I was on the board of directors it would keep me up at night.

If you tell them this they are required to notify their insurer, failing to do so could allow the insurer to deny them coverage if you were to bring suit. I know this because I've been involved in a few of these claims. Most had much less merit than your situation.

I talked with a board member I know pretty well after the administration fired someone else with my demographic several months ago. At the very least, I will do so again, absolutely.

 

[SAinMinn]

Also, this type of litigation tends to follow you around if you intend on seeking other employment. The reputation sticks. I would just let it go and move on.

Yep. Truth right there. Reality bites.

 

[SAinMinn]

Well OP you got 18 months of paid employment after you posted your link thread. Have you looked for other work? Have you done anything proactive except waiting for the axe to fall?


.

Yes, as I posted, I started the side hustle. I've been doing that for about 10 months, in case the ax fell.

 

[SAinMinn]

This doesn't really matter unless they treated other employees differently then they treated you. The vague restructuring or moving in a different direction will the their CYA.

The employee handbook calls for annual performance appraisals.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

This doesn't really matter unless they treated other employees differently then they treated you. The vague restructuring or moving in a different direction will the their CYA.

Not always. During the Great Recession we laid off at-will employees and at least one of them that I know of over age 55 got a negotiated severance package.
This is in local government so severance packages aren’t the norm they are in the private sector.

Evaluations are the responsibility of management not the employees. I say this as a retired department head who was awful at getting evals done on time-unless there was money involved for the employee.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, as I posted, I started the side hustle. I've been doing that for about 10 months, in case the ax fell.

Nice so leave them in the rear view and do the side hustle. then you alone are in control.

 

[Koolau]

Years later, the department chair who fired me was himself fired. He was 67, and it was more of a layoff than a firing. He let it be known he had retained a lawyer and the organization “unfired” him. He retired 3 years later. He was beloved by some and they had a big retirement celebration. I hated the guy. So did the director of the group I joined.

So, how was the party?

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Who funds this non-profit organization? I'd let them know how they treat their employees. I'd tell the board of directors, they need to back this decision up and be accountable. It's their job to hire & fire, not the faculty & staff. Ask the board if they agree with the faculty's decision, it's the board's responsibility. I see many non-profit board members take the post for an ego trip. They need to know that they are legally accountable as "owners" of this and treat employees responsibly. You don't need an attorney to ask them about their Employment Practices Liability Insurance. Send a written memo that they are on notice. This will get their insurance company's attention.

I wouldn't walk away, and I'm a peaceful guy.

Don't worry about being labled a trouble maker by future employers....how would they know you pursued it?

 

[cyber888]

You can withdraw from your 401K at 55 yrs old without penalty, so it you're out in June - you're safe. With 1.9 mil - I think you will do just fine.

You never said if you had kids or not ? Do you have kids. What's your expenses today?

 

[CRLLS]

I can say that simply mentioning the word "lawyer" will sometimes be enough. I was told by my superior that one of my reports was in HR being let go. I was to make sure that nothing happened afterwards. How I was to do that, I don't know. An hour or so later, I saw him working at his desk. It runed out that he said the "L" word and things changed in a hurry. He was there, but his coworker was no longer. Strange things happen when the management is afraid of lawyers.

All I can say is it ain't over 'till it is over. I have witnessed many company changes in the last few minutes of what was, a plan.

 

[SAinMinn]

Who funds this non-profit organization? I'd let them know how they treat their employees. I'd tell the board of directors, they need to back this decision up and be accountable. It's their job to hire & fire, not the faculty & staff. Ask the board if they agree with the faculty's decision, it's the board's responsibility. I see many non-profit board members take the post for an ego trip. They need to know that they are legally accountable as "owners" of this and treat employees responsibly. You don't need an attorney to ask them about their Employment Practices Liability Insurance. Send a written memo that they are on notice. This will get their insurance company's attention.

I wouldn't walk away, and I'm a peaceful guy.

Don't worry about being labled a trouble maker by future employers....how would they know you pursued it?

You make excellent points. Excellent. Thanks.

 

[SAinMinn]

You can withdraw from your 401K at 55 yrs old without penalty, so it you're out in June - you're safe. With 1.9 mil - I think you will do just fine.

You never said if you had kids or not ? Do you have kids. What's your expenses today?

Thanks. Double income, no kids. House paid off and we're not going anywhere (though it's a three-level house so I'm not counting on staying here forever and ever).

I'd say we can live very comfortably on 70K a year; less if we have to but I like to visit my relatives in Hawaii a couple times a year, etc. I can't see ever retiring and need to do something besides volunteering too. I'd shrivel and die without having at least a barista-type job where I earn at least something.

My wife has an IT-heavy job and they love her. She's a couple years older and her health is not quite as good as mine, but her relatives have longevity and mine don't ... so we're probably even on life expectancy. Health insurance would be through her job, as long as she stays healthy and employed. She's almost 57, I'm almost 55.

Thanks for the reassurance on the money aspect of things. That's the biggest reason I might just walk away and count this whole thing as a life experience.

But ... I left a lot of money on the table leaving the previous for-profit job with profit sharing, bonuses, etc. I could easily establish 300K-400K in damages from the past five years, based on what I had been earning. Had I stayed in that job another few years, we'd be better off financially without a doubt.

Every previous job I've left, there have been tears, cake, happy hour afterward, well-wishes, heartfelt words of "we'll miss you." This situation ... wow. This is new territory for me, not being wanted and valued. I doubt there will be even a one-line email announcing my departure. On the advice of counsel, most likely.

 

[SAinMinn]

Nice so leave them in the rear view and do the side hustle. then you alone are in control.

A very good perspective. A lot to be said for focusing on the positive and things over which I have control.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

The Board of Directors owe you an explanation. 'That's what they signed up for. Not just the status, prestige, parties and resume recognition.

I'd ask each in person what they would do if the same thing happened to them. Don't let the hide behind the "non profit" badge.

Like other have said you can move on and pursue other careers, you should ....but don't let your past employer tell you that you're through without a better explanation.

Saying this. I have been a board member of 6 non profit organizations over the last 40 years. ( I just recounted and it's 8) I wouldn't have standed for this on any board I was on.

Move on like others have said, but I wouldn't let this lie. At least tell the people who fund this non-profit. The private sector would be scared of you right now...non profits need to realize that they aren't exempt from how they treat employees.

 

[Timeisprecious]

Who funds this non-profit organization? I'd let them know how they treat their employees. I'd tell the board of directors, they need to back this decision up and be accountable. It's their job to hire & fire, not the faculty & staff. Ask the board if they agree with the faculty's decision, it's the board's responsibility. I see many non-profit board members take the post for an ego trip. They need to know that they are legally accountable as "owners" of this and treat employees responsibly. You don't need an attorney to ask them about their Employment Practices Liability Insurance. Send a written memo that they are on notice. This will get their insurance company's attention.

I wouldn't walk away, and I'm a peaceful guy.

Don't worry about being labled a trouble maker by future employers....how would they know you pursued it?

+1. But I wouldn't send the written memo until after I had spoken with a good employment lawyer.

No performance reviews in the file? No documentation of poor performance? Young folks of color assuming your responsibilities? No written or verbal explanation as to how they arrived at this termination decision? Yes, you have a case. In grad school and more recently I've seen case summaries and known of cases in which plantiffs won lawsuits that were less clear-cut than this.