Well, they fired me. Or they say they are going to.

[Jerry1]

I would speak to a lawyer and stop posting on the internet. As they say on TV - Anything you say can and will be used against you.

 

[ivinsfan]

+1. But I wouldn't send the written memo until after I had spoken with a good employment lawyer.

No performance reviews in the file? No documentation of poor performance? Young folks of color assuming your responsibilities? No written or verbal explanation as to how they arrived at this termination decision? Yes, you have a case. In grad school and more recently I've seen case summaries and known of cases in which plantiffs won lawsuits that were less clear-cut than this.

It's at will employment and I wouldn't touch that POC statement with a 10 foot pole. It's not worth it, you might win the battle and lose the war. Maybe end up on the front page of the paper. Just take a second and remember the OP is in MN maybe not too far from the big metro area...things are still intense here.

 

[Bamaman]

In the meantime, put your mind on cruise control and try to enjoy any time you have left.

In my last years, I was on the road visiting our dealers. I'd often stay in luxury hotels, take side trips thru the mountains and enjoy the scenery along the way. And I'd take my wife when I was working in Florida and she'd spend the day on the beach. I'd sometimes sleep in on Fridays. But I still got the job done.

 

[niven]

But ... I left a lot of money on the table leaving the previous for-profit job with profit sharing, bonuses, etc. I could easily establish 300K-400K in damages from the past five years, based on what I had been earning. Had I stayed in that job another few years, we'd be better off financially without a doubt.

If I understand your statement, I don't see how the past years are damages. You took the job for less pay. If you left this job for another, would they still be damages in your mind?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

But ... I left a lot of money on the table leaving the previous for-profit job with profit sharing, bonuses, etc. I could easily establish 300K-400K in damages from the past five years, based on what I had been earning. Had I stayed in that job another few years, we'd be better off financially without a doubt.

Every previous job I've left, there have been tears, cake, happy hour afterward, well-wishes, heartfelt words of "we'll miss you." This situation ... wow. This is new territory for me, not being wanted and valued. I doubt there will be even a one-line email announcing my departure. On the advice of counsel, most likely.

This was on a meme from antiwork on Reddit that sort of applies - Get a job doing what you love and you'll have to work twice as hard for half as much money, because your boss will exploit your passion for profit, and drive you little by little to hate what you once loved.

 

[tryan]

I would prescribe a nice long break with DW .... long enough to move from upset to happy.

Then look forward - not back. Being as good as you say, you'll easily find another gig (if that's what you want).

Simply put, I don't see any lawyer taking this for free. You'll be throwing good money chasing bad.

 

[Magus]

I'd angle for a strong severance here. I don't think you'll enjoy working there longer. You have already been given good advice about how to go after severance (L word, Board /Insurance approach, etc).

While irritating, the long term incentive package you gave up on your last job is not relevant here as you did that voluntarily knowing you'd make less money. Even if you loved your current job, you'd be in the same position there.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

Talking to a few attorneys might be worthwhile. They would know best if they can make a case that would amount in a settlement.

This is my advice as well. Tell them you will sue. They might offer a severance package or a settlement if you file. Universities tend to go this route. Whatever the amount, at least you will have fought the decision and gotten some recompense.

-BB

 

[38Chevy454]

As the old saying, be careful what you wish for. Would you want to continue this job after getting lawyered up and resulting in them keeping you on? It sounds like your time there is done, the question is whether you have an actual case for any discrimination claim. Unfortunately in our society today, you are not in a favored status being an older white guy. The general view is that you can be discriminated against without recourse.


So go talk with an employment attorney and lay out the facts to get an opinion. That will guide what your next steps are. I do agree that given your savings and side gig that it may be best to just put it behind you without any legal actions. For your mental health mostly. But if the attorney thinks you have a case, then stick it to them and get what you deserve. Discrimination is wrong against anyone, not just the current favored political flavor of the month.

 

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

I have been told by people in HR that in our state (IL) employees generally win against companies even if the complaint is undocumented for unemployment. And cases have been lost when the allegations were documented and signed off by the employee. Seems the state has some vested interest in making sure people don't go on public assistance.

Not a lawyer and am just relating what I believe several people in benefits at management level have said in random setting over the years. Might a number of months of unemployment lessen the pain even if you get legal advice and possibly fund that cost? I believe that unemployment challenge can use an arbitrator but am sure that varies state by state.

Good luck, but make your own.

 

[brett]

A settlement and the amount may depend on where you live. You might want to ask some of your colleagues or friends if they have had a similar experience.

Ditto for if they can recommend a good lawyer.

It is not just about a settlement. It is about a fair financial settlement.

My former employer offered me a settlement. I did not think it was rich enough based on my experience and that of my colleagues in the industry. The final agreement was almost three times the original offer. I had a good lawyer. His final negotiation was to add the value of his fee into the agreement. It took two-three weeks. The settlement was in line with others in our jurisdiction including those that went the litigation route.

In my situation I knew that a package would be coming so I had time to prepare myself for it and to identify a good lawyer who I planned to engage. I was absolutely thrilled to be getting the heave ho. I had been ready to fire for the past year so this was the icing on the cake so to speak.

It is somewhat surprising that they did not offer you a low ball settlement in the hope that you would be foolish enough to agree to it and sign. You have nothing to loose and everything to gain by making the effort to understand what your options are. Don't delay if you intend to action this.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

At my last megacorp, they would give in to anyone to not sue. I fired someone for not showing up at work and HR made me pay them for the days they weren't there because it was cheaper than going to court. Our HR person told me that juries in termination cases were very unpredictable, so the company could have facts on their side but a jury might still give a large settlement. So they avoided going to court as much as possible.

A well worded letter from an employment attorney might get you a nice severance package. One of my friends did this and got quite a bit of money just with a letter. They had been fired for poor performance without notice, and after a good performance review and bonus, which violated the company's own termination procedures in the employee handbook. It probably wouldn't have sit too well with a jury since they didn't even have the facts or documentation on their side.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

At my last megacorp, they would give in to anyone to not sue. I fired someone for not showing up at work and HR made me pay them for the days they weren't there because it was cheaper than going to court. Our HR person told me that juries in termination cases were very unpredictable, so the company could have facts on their side but a jury might still give a large settlement. So they avoided going to court as much as possible.

A well worded letter from an employment attorney might get you a nice severance package. One of my friends did this and got quite a bit of money just with a letter. They had been fired for poor performance without notice, and after a good performance review and bonus, which violated the company's own termination procedures in the employee handbook. It probably wouldn't have sit too well with a jury since they didn't even have the facts or documentation on their side.

This was my experience as well but then it appears we are both in California. I worked for the public sector and even there it was cheaper to provide several months severance pay than the cost of a lawsuit and then the uncertainty of the outcome.
That’s why I would recommend to anyone to speak to an employment attorney about negotiating a severance package.
That’s usually the best bet for a more positive outcome.

 

[ivinsfan]

If I understand your statement, I don't see how the past years are damages. You took the job for less pay. If you left this job for another, would they still be damages in your mind?

Most likely the OP means he didn't think he would get kicked to the curb and be without a job... he could have stayed at the corp gig and he could quit that now and have enough money to just volunteer. They don't say no good deed goes unpunished for nothing.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

This was my experience as well but then it appears we are both in California. I worked for the public sector and even there it was cheaper to provide several months severance pay than the cost of a lawsuit and then the uncertainty of the outcome.
That’s why I would recommend to anyone to speak to an employment attorney about negotiating a severance package.
That’s usually the best bet for a more positive outcome.

And I would speak to a few different employment lawyers. The initial consultations are usually free or nominal cost. My friend got replies that ranged from no case to the one that got the nice severance package.

 

[youbet]

Unless they are violating the law.

They avoid "violating the law" by firing you without any meaningful explanation. A simple, "we've decided to go another direction" is typically all they say. They have to follow certain administrative procedures such as giving you your final pay on the day they terminate you and a few other things depending on your state. But they are not obligated to show you had a performance issue.

What "law" are you referring to?

 

[marko]

I can say that simply mentioning the word "lawyer" will sometimes be enough. I was told by my superior that one of my reports was in HR being let go. I was to make sure that nothing happened afterwards. How I was to do that, I don't know. An hour or so later, I saw him working at his desk. It runed out that he said the "L" word and things changed in a hurry. He was there, but his coworker was no longer. Strange things happen when the management is afraid of lawyers.

All I can say is it ain't over 'till it is over. I have witnessed many company changes in the last few minutes of what was, a plan.

+1 This has been my experience as well. See my post at #32

 

[niven]

Most likely the OP means he didn't think he would get kicked to the curb and be without a job... he could have stayed at the corp gig and he could quit that now and have enough money to just volunteer. They don't say no good deed goes unpunished for nothing.

I understand that he thought the job would continue and that's a loss from this point on, but I don't see how you can look back at the years he accepted lower pay willingly. Or maybe I should get a job at McDonalds and get fired, then sue because I could have gone back to IT and earned six figures.

 

[ivinsfan]

I understand that he thought the job would continue and that's a loss from this point on, but I don't see how you can look back at the years he accepted lower pay willingly. Or maybe I should get a job at McDonalds and get fired, then sue because I could have gone back to IT and earned six figures.

I agree

 

[cyber888]

Well, that's good.
You seem to be the very active type of person always doing something - you can always fly to Poland and help millions of Ukrainian refugees - maybe join the Red Cross, Unicef, or something?

Thanks. Double income, no kids. House paid off and we're not going anywhere (though it's a three-level house so I'm not counting on staying here forever and ever).

I'd say we can live very comfortably on 70K a year; less if we have to but I like to visit my relatives in Hawaii a couple times a year, etc. I can't see ever retiring and need to do something besides volunteering too. I'd shrivel and die without having at least a barista-type job where I earn at least something.

.

 

[SAinMinn]

As the old saying, be careful what you wish for. Would you want to continue this job after getting lawyered up and resulting in them keeping you on? It sounds like your time there is done, the question is whether you have an actual case for any discrimination claim.

The answer to whether I can or even want to stay there is an emphatic no, given how things have played out. There might be some legal grounds related to a contract, but as you and many others have pointed out ... likely not worth the angst. Thanks for weighing in; I appreciate it.

 

[marko]

As the old saying, be careful what you wish for. Would you want to continue this job after getting lawyered up and resulting in them keeping you on?

I would think that goal here would not to keep one's job but to gain compensation for your departure/dilemma/discrimination.

As I noted above, a friend of mine got 2 year's pay and benefits resulting from his 'lawyering up'.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Laws and corporate shields aside, the OP got dumped on.

In my posts I haven't suggested contacting an attorney. I wouldn't do it.

I would hold the Board of
Directors feet to the fire though. Hell, if they're a non profit.....run for the Board at their annual meeting.

 

[Music Lover]

I would think that goal here would not to keep one's job but to gain compensation for your departure/dilemma/discrimination.

As I noted above, a friend of mine got 2 year's pay and benefits resulting from his 'lawyering up'.

My wife was improperly let go. She was going to leave anyway so it really wasn't a big deal. But she hired a lawyer and just let things happen without getting emotionally involved. When it was finally resolved almost 2 years later she ended up receiving the equivalent of an additional 9 months salary.

 

[Popeye]

They avoid "violating the law" by firing you without any meaningful explanation. A simple, "we've decided to go another direction" is typically all they say. They have to follow certain administrative procedures such as giving you your final pay on the day they terminate you and a few other things depending on your state. But they are not obligated to show you had a performance issue.

What "law" are you referring to?

Well I can’t cite the applicable laws but that’s what the attorneys and the EEOC do.

Under the laws enforced by EEOC, it is illegal to discriminate against someone (applicant or employee) because of that person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. It is also illegal to retaliate against a person because he or she complained about discrimination, filed a charge of discrimination, or participated in an employment discrimination investigation or lawsuit.

https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-employment-policiespractices