What do you mean I only get 50% of my pension??

[computerguy]

I waited until I was 65 last year to take my defined benefit pension from mega-corp so I could avoid any reductions by taking it earlier. As suggested by the company I began the process a couple of months early so it would kick in the month I turned 65.

All was going as planned until I received a notice that they would be holding back 50% of my pension because of a problem with a qualified domestic relations order (QDRO). The problem, they explained, was that during my divorce in 1990 (26 years earlier) my ex-wife's attorney never completed the legal paperwork to ensure that she got the percentage of my pension she was entitled to when I retired. Because the lawyer had filed something, but it was incorrect or incomplete, mega-corp had to hold back 50% of my pension until the QDRO issue was fixed. And, of course, in the intervening quarter century I had never been notified that there was a problem. They said they would attempt to contact my ex and define her remedy but suggested it might be easier (for them?) if I contacted her myself. We had not had children together (thank goodness) and I had no idea where she was or even if she was still alive. I did not agree to fix their problem.

The alternative to getting the QDRO corrected was to wait 18 months and then, if they received no valid QDRO, they would release the full pension to me. OK, I waited and, in the mean time, collected 50% of my pension every month.

In April 2017, one month before the 18 month period expired, I contacted them again. They were less than enthusiastic to hear from me and explained that I must send them a written request to receive my full pension on or after May 1 and then they would decide what to do. I sent off the letter on May 2 and received their reply a week later that they were extending the waiting period for 30 more days and would make one final attempt to get the QDRO completed. They were not happy that I did not "do my best" to get the problem resolved.

Finally, in early June, after waiting 20 months, I received my full pension and a check for the amount that had been withheld. I was fortunate to have a close relative who is a lawyer that specializes in labor law who provided guidance along the way. Everything mega-corp did was legal, but unexpected.

 

[Golden sunsets]

I'm unfamiliar with this issue but it seems that you are saying that if your Ex's attorney had completed the QDRO, she would have been entitled to half your pension. Is that correct? If so I'm curious, did you expect her to get half your pension, all these years later? It doesn't seem like that would have been fair. And in that case it appears as though you dodged a bullet.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[HadEnuff]

I'm unfamiliar with this issue but it seems that you are saying that if your Ex's attorney had completed the QDRO, she would have been entitled to half your pension. Is that correct? If so I'm curious, did you expect her to get half your pension, all these years later? It doesn't seem like that would have been fair. And in that case it appears as though you dodged a bullet.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

The QDRO does not necessarily entitle the party to half of the pension. What it does is spell out exactly what the party is entitled to, based upon the terms of the divorce, all of which is negotiable. In the absence of a negotiated settlement, a judge will decide who gets what. The QDRO communicates that settlement, as it pertains to the pension, to the administrators of the pension. Could be half, could be zero, could be some %.

 

[Bigdawg]

pension

6 years ago I was working with a military guy who had 14 years of service. His wife was cheating on him and he caught her. They agreed to a divorce. She said that she was going to take 50% of his military pension. His attorney wrote up the paperwork and specifically wrote into the agreement that she was to receive 50% of his "military" pension when he left the service at or after 20 years of service. This guy did not reenlist. He got out of the service then applied his 15 years of military time to his new government job. He now has 20 years credit on his fed gov job and the ex will get zero % of his federal employee pension. YRMV

 

[joeea]

The problem, they explained, was that during my divorce in 1990 (26 years earlier) my ex-wife's attorney never completed the legal paperwork to ensure that she got the percentage of my pension she was entitled to when I retired. Because the lawyer had filed something, but it was incorrect or incomplete, mega-corp had to hold back 50% of my pension until the QDRO issue was fixed.

Odd that your attorney didn't make sure everything was filed correctly at the time of your divorce. Seems like more than one attorney didn't do their job well.

Sounds like everything turned out okay in the end - I suspect it could have been much worse.

 

[athena53]

The QDRO does not necessarily entitle the party to half of the pension. What it does is spell out exactly what the party is entitled to, based upon the terms of the divorce, all of which is negotiable. In the absence of a negotiated settlement, a judge will decide who gets what. The QDRO communicates that settlement, as it pertains to the pension, to the administrators of the pension. Could be half, could be zero, could be some %.

Right. I divorced in 1997 and both my Ex and I were vested in small pensions. Each of us signed away the rights to any Spousal benefits from the other's pension. It was just simpler that way.

I'm glad the OP had the resources to keep going during the 18-month waiting period.

 

[cooch96]

Yikes! What a horror story. Megacorp doesn't offer a pension, but if it did, I would definitely file this as a good tale of warning. Thank you for sharing.

 

[euro]

I waited until I was 65 last year to take my defined benefit pension from mega-corp so I could avoid any reductions by taking it earlier. As suggested by the company I began the process a couple of months early so it would kick in the month I turned 65.

All was going as planned until I received a notice that they would be holding back 50% of my pension because of a problem with a qualified domestic relations order (QDRO). The problem, they explained, was that during my divorce in 1990 (26 years earlier) my ex-wife's attorney never completed the legal paperwork to ensure that she got the percentage of my pension she was entitled to when I retired. Because the lawyer had filed something, but it was incorrect or incomplete, mega-corp had to hold back 50% of my pension until the QDRO issue was fixed. And, of course, in the intervening quarter century I had never been notified that there was a problem. They said they would attempt to contact my ex and define her remedy but suggested it might be easier (for them?) if I contacted her myself. We had not had children together (thank goodness) and I had no idea where she was or even if she was still alive. I did not agree to fix their problem.

The alternative to getting the QDRO corrected was to wait 18 months and then, if they received no valid QDRO, they would release the full pension to me. OK, I waited and, in the mean time, collected 50% of my pension every month.

In April 2017, one month before the 18 month period expired, I contacted them again. They were less than enthusiastic to hear from me and explained that I must send them a written request to receive my full pension on or after May 1 and then they would decide what to do. I sent off the letter on May 2 and received their reply a week later that they were extending the waiting period for 30 more days and would make one final attempt to get the QDRO completed. They were not happy that I did not "do my best" to get the problem resolved.

Finally, in early June, after waiting 20 months, I received my full pension and a check for the amount that had been withheld. I was fortunate to have a close relative who is a lawyer that specializes in labor law who provided guidance along the way. Everything mega-corp did was legal, but unexpected.

They were trying to cover their butt. I don't think they care who gets the money - they just don't want to be exposed to additional liabilities. But apparently, like you, they didn't feel like tracking down the Ex.....

 

[travelover]

When I divorced 17 years ago, my ex was entitled to 1/2 the pension I would have eventually received had I quit work on the day the QDRO was signed. I worked for another 7 years and in those years my pension increased significantly, so the amount she was to actually receive was way less than half of what I actually was eligible to receive at retirement.

 

[RunningBum]

Sounds like it was your problem, not theirs. Had the QDRO been filled out you would probably have gotten less unless she was giving up her rights. Maybe they told her lawyer it was incomplete and the lawyer never followed up. Is the company supposed to hound the lawyer until it's done? If she was giving up her rights or getting very little, your lawyer should have been on top of this. As it turns out you got away with giving her none of it, at the cost of nearly 2 years of partially deferred benefits. Doesn't sound like something to be mad about to me.

 

[Pilot2013]

Sounds like it was your problem, not theirs. Had the QDRO been filled out you would probably have gotten less unless she was giving up her rights. Maybe they told her lawyer it was incomplete and the lawyer never followed up. Is the company supposed to hound the lawyer until it's done? If she was giving up her rights or getting very little, your lawyer should have been on top of this. As it turns out you got away with giving her none of it, at the cost of nearly 2 years of partially deferred benefits. Doesn't sound like something to be mad about to me.

I wouldn't "assume" he got away with anything. He didn't say what their divorce decree (or QDRO if there was one) stated.

To the OP: Did you guys have an agreement? I also have a pension from previous employer, but our divorce decree itself did not provide my ex with 401k or Pension. I would have to pull the decree out, but I am pretty sure the decree itself stated there was no interest. I don't think there was ever a QDRO done. Hopefully I don't find myself in a similar situation, but maybe providing the court stamped decree would settle it.

 

[RunningBum]

Well, if the plan was for her to get nothing, I'd have made an effort to track her or the law office down. Who's "problem" it was is somewhat irrelevant (though I still say it's not the company's), it's the OP who was affected.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I'm glad you are not out any of your pension even if you got part of it late.

It sounds like there was 25-year-old signed paperwork for the ex not getting any of the pension, it just wasn't considered by megacorp to be the standard format or wording currently in effect, so megacorp erred on the side of caution. If I were OP I probably would have let that sleeping dog lie, imagining the spouse opening up a letter asking her to sign off on her share of OP's pension: "Hmm, I could get half of his pension? Cool! Let me call my lawyer and see if we can do that!"

 

[computerguy]

I should have been a bit clearer in my original post. My ex was entitled to 50% of my pension for the years I was married to her. She was not entitled to any more for the years I worked after the divorce. Doing the math, she was entitled to 16% of my total pension. My lawyer did all of his paperwork in 1990 and assumed (I know, never assume) her lawyer did the same. The issue never surfaced until 2016. And yes, mega-corp did what it did to cover its own potential liability according to the existing rules in federal pension law (ERISA). Yes, I was able to get through the 20 month waiting period since I always LBYM during my working years. Finally, I posted this as a cautionary tale but it did reflect some of my bitterness from my 1990 messy divorce. Sorry for that.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, im sure your cousin the lawyer can either verify or shoot down this tale im a bout to relate. I know of a coworker that was dragged into court, seems the Divorce decree was similar to yours. Some screw up with the QDRO. After collecting for 5 years his full pension, she found out he finally retired. She got her percentage that she was entitled to(in your case 16 %) and it was back dated to the point of his retirement. In my state (NY) Supreme Court(that is our divorce court), maintains jurisdiction of these matters and supersedes all other determinations i.e. your company releasing the full amount to you. So save up the 16 % in case of a surprise letter.

 

[Pilot2013]

Finally, I posted this as a cautionary tale but it did reflect some of my bitterness from my 1990 messy divorce. Sorry for that.

No problem. I had similar experience, except that SOMEHOW I was able to not have to forfeit any of my 401k or pension. I think she is going to also have an awakening when/if she tries to draw on my SS, as we were 5 months shy of the 10 year mark.

 

[Koolau]

Whooohhh! All this talk makes me feel so blessed to still be married to the same person for almost 50 years. Sure is a lot cheaper - and simpler. YMMV

 

[Danmar]

I was very fortunate that I divorced wife #1 before I joined the pension plan at my employer. Consequently she had no right to this plan. On the other hand my CPP (SS equivalent) is split between us for the years we were married. This is minuscule compared to my employer pension.

 

[Johanson]

I divorced my wife twice. The second time I was well into my career at my Megacorp and I did the divorce myself through forms found online. I got her to sign off on not touching my 401K or pension and I sent that into Megacorp and she was removed as a beneficiary. I'm pretty sure I won't have any issues when retirement time comes because she's dead. At least I hope not!

 

[Mdlerth]

Whooohhh! All this talk makes me feel so blessed to still be married to the same person for almost 50 years. Sure is a lot cheaper - and simpler. YMMV

^This^ , although for only 37 years. Not that I would consider divorce an option - we both swore the only way out is in a wooden box - but if it happened it would flush the E part of ER right down the pipe. That would su.. be bad.

 

[travelover]

Whooohhh! All this talk makes me feel so blessed to still be married to the same person for almost 50 years. Sure is a lot cheaper - and simpler. YMMV

I know you mean well, but for people that have had a divorce forced on them, it is a little like dropping by the amputee ward to show everyone your new shoes. It takes two to marry, but only one to divorce.

 

[aja8888]

I know you mean well, but for people that have had a divorce forced on them, it is a little like dropping by the amputee ward to show everyone your new shoes. It takes two to marry, but only one to divorce.

And don't forget about the people that stay in unfulfilling marriages for decades because of "the kids". There are lots of those.

 

[Koolau]

I know you mean well, but for people that have had a divorce forced on them, it is a little like dropping by the amputee ward to show everyone your new shoes. It takes two to marry, but only one to divorce.

If I gave offense it was unintentional and I do apologize.

 

[Koolau]

And don't forget about the people that stay in unfulfilling marriages for decades because of "the kids". There are lots of those.

Until we got kids, DW and I always said we were staying together for the cats. It was mazing how the dynamic changed after kids came along. I'm sure we would have stayed together for the kids had divorce been on the horizon. YMMV

 

[Taxman59]

And don't forget about the people that stay in unfulfilling marriages for decades because of "the kids". There are lots of those.

My parents said for years that they stayed together because of an agreement "Whomever asks for the divorce gets the kids"! When we were all out of the house, it changes to "Whomever asks for the divorce gets Mother (my grandmother)".

Don't know if it was the reason, but they were married for 53 years when my father passed away.