Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-30-2017, 02:41 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,664
BTW, plastic RX bottles with screw on lids are a cheap way to organize and store the coins. Also keeps pill bottles out of the dumpster.
brucethebroker is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-30-2017, 05:50 AM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,688
FWIW, I decided that physical silver was not for me. Storage costs, risk of theft, limited local market for physical and high bid-ask spread steered me towards putting the money into notional silver with a major bank. I decided I was comfortable with the credit risk and found the lower costs attractive.

My position in silver is only about 0.5% of household net assets so I suppose I should ask why I have it at all.
__________________
Budgeting is a skill practised by people who are bad at politics.
traineeinvestor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 08:49 AM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownyourfuture View Post
I suppose it's my fault, asking for everyone's opinion.
So if the reply you gave, somehow makes you feel better about yourself, I say good for you!
You asked a question and, as happens on this forum, related questions got asked. Is your skin so thin that you cannot answer reasonable questions?

I don't personally feel the need to own gold or silver in physical form to protect me from inflation. If that is why you want to do so, come out and say it rather than throwing a tantrum. There are other ways to hedge inflation and maybe you would learn something by other posters' suggestions. Often I ask a question here and hear of options or solutions that never would have occurred to me. Other times it is the wrong peanut gallery to be asking and I realize the question would have been better asked elsewhere.

I personally hedge inflation by (among other things) keeping a 30 year fixed mortgage outstanding. If you think a hyperinflation scenario is a real risk, you should be worried about confiscation and I am not sure there s a good hedge except perhaps by turning into a homesteader in a nation that will not be affected (Switzerland?). Go poke around what is happening in Venezuela and get an idea of what happens to careful hoarded physical resources as a country spirals into hyperinflation.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

- George Orwell

Ezekiel 23:20
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 09:13 AM   #24
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland again!
Posts: 35,219
How to acquire a portfolio asset depends in part on its intended purpose, which leads to a second discussion on the asset itself. So, what role do silver coins play in the asset allocation and what alternatives are available is part of the thread topic.

If you have decided to acquire the coins and don't care to discuss this in the thread, there's no need to respond to posts that raise that question. Just focus on the posts you find helpful.
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 09:37 AM   #25
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 45,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownyourfuture View Post
I suppose it's my fault, asking for everyone's opinion.
So if the reply you gave, somehow makes you feel better about yourself, I say good for you!
No need to be rude. Basically, my conclusion after reading the thread thus far, is that it appears that most of us are not wildly enthusiastic about your approach to investing.

If you have confidence in your plans, go right ahead. There's no reason to get upset if/when others do not break out in enthusiastic applause.

My opinion? I tend to agree with brewer12345 on this one, in that I wouldn't put money in precious metals for all the tea in China. In my case, I'm more of a very broad index fund, buy-and-hold type of gal.
__________________
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61.
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 09:46 AM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethebroker View Post
BTW, plastic RX bottles with screw on lids are a cheap way to organize and store the coins. Also keeps pill bottles out of the dumpster.


When my old boss bought coins they came in a nice bottle already... no need to do RX bottles...

Since OP was buying dribs and drabs, he might need them...
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 09:58 AM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,689
I was also one who thought the OP was a bit rude... and did not answer some questions that would add to the discussion...

But I read the thread title and he says 'invest-speculate'.... I think speculate is trying to gain a quick gain on something.... it is what I did with silver a few years ago and did quite well... but, I never bought physical silver...

I think that investing is for the longer haul... and again if you are not buying for chaos then physical silver is still not a good idea... the costs of buying and selling are high... I can buy a silver fund and pay the mgmt fees for decades and still be ahead of someone who bought physical metal...


SO, now we come to chaos... the whole country goes to heck and if you are not a preper then you are in trouble.... but IMO if that happens $10K of silver will not even last a month...


The three scenarios that I listed only one lends itself to physical silver.... so I am still interested in WHY the OP is wanting to have physical silver.... if the answer is 3 then fine... at least we will know your thinking...
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 11:54 AM   #28
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: The Deep South Bay
Posts: 744
I've never had a problem selling bullion, like I said earlier I've sold around 5k oz this past year or so, everything from 1oz Rounds, silver eagles, kilo bars, 10oz bars and 100oz bars, my business was never refused
97guns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 01:23 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ownyourfuture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethebroker View Post
Pros for 1964/earlier silver US coins:
Easy to id. Hard to counterfeit (is anyone going to give them that worn look?).

Cons: Some are so worn they could be discounted if sold since their weight is less.
In addition to the worn look, silver halves have a distinctly different color/tone than those with none.

I recently bought a 'lot' of 20 halves. 17 1964 Kennedy's & 3 Barbers.
The barbers are extremely worn, so I decided to sell them on eBay.


I was expecting to get $15.00 tops, but the bid is at $21.17 with a full day to go.
__________________
"No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast"
ownyourfuture is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 03:07 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ownyourfuture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,171
It's 37° windy & raining today, so I have nothing but time

First off, I want to thank the following members who correctly interpreted what I was asking when I started this thread, & gave thoughtful input.

97guns
Blue Collar Guy
Svensk Anga
coach 96
Al in Ohio
brucethebroker
traineeinvestor
Texas Proud
MichaelB

Paragraph 1 from my original post

I'm ‘not’ looking to amass hundreds of pounds of silver, & I'm not a doomsday prepper. I just want to have a small percentage of my total assets in this metal. I'd like to amass at least 500 ounces.



ATTN Texas Proud

Quote:
I had a boss who was always talking about silver and gold... and how it would protect him etc. etc....
So my question to you is.... how is $10K of silver going to change your life in any way if everything goes to heck
I have no idea ?
Neither of us do. Mainly because neither one of us has ever lived through a time when everything truly went to heck, like it did in the 30’s.
That is unless, you're like 100 years old


Quote:
Also, buying real gold and silver has a high commission on it... you lose big time in the exchange.... you are looking to buy at $20+ per coin and silver is just around $17 per ounce... that is a HUGE markup
You're right, but I accept that.


Quote:
If you want silver to be able to spend it then yes you need coins... but, you can buy bars at a cheaper price
Appreciate your suggestion, but I'm going to stick with coins


Quote:
Me, I bought the silver fund... bought at less than $20 and sold when it went over $40.... bought again when it went down, but sold at a loss... I do not think it is a good investment
I also bought a silver ‘investment’
USV UBS Bloomberg CMCI Silver Total Return ETN
Probably not the best choice. It's a very thinly traded ETF with only a little over 4 million in net assets. But I bought @17.00 & it’s now around 22.00

I'll be totally honest with you. What convinced me to allocate ‘a small portion’ of my portfolio to silver, is something I heard/read some years ago.
Don't remember if it was in a newspaper, magazine, in person, or somewhere on the Internet, but it struck a nerve with me.

It goes something like this. A man was recalling a time back in the 50s, when he went to the gas station with his grandfather.
Gas was $.20 a gallon, & his grandfather had the attendant put in $2.00 worth (10 gallons). When the attendant came to the window to collect the $2.00, the grandfather reached into his pocket & pulled out 2 one dollar bills & paid the man. He then reached into his other pocket, pulled out two silver dollars, handed them to his grandson, & told him to hang onto these, they may be valuable someday.

As of today, the 2 one dollar bills are still worth $2.00 & wouldn't even buy you 1 gallon. The two silver dollars on the other hand, are valued at approximately $26.00
Even if you had to liquidate them very quickly, I'd be willing to bet the absolute least you’d get is $20.00, 10 times more than the paper currency.





ATTN brewer12345

Quote:
What I am hinting at is: what set of circumstances do you envision under which a pile of silver will be helpful and things will not have descended to the point where someone will not simply take it from you?
My reply is the same as the one I gave to Texas Proud. I have no idea if a pile of silver would be helpful if things really went south ?
As far as someone simply taking it from me, someone may eventually get it, but it certainly wouldn’t be the 1st one who tried

I consider it a hedge. I'm 55, have a nice diversified portfolio, big enough to allow me to live comfortably to 100 years old. So if the $10,000 or so I plan on investing in silver turns out to be worthless, (which of course it never will) it will have very little if any effect on my life.



ATTN calmloki

You replied to brewer12345, who had asked…

Quote:
What I am hinting at is: what set of circumstances do you envision under which a pile of silver will be helpful and things will not have descended to the point where someone will not simply take it from you?
with this

Quote:
You know - werewolfs. or new career as the lone stranger
Had hopes for this site, but the bullets lack push
Silver Bullets for Sale | Silver Bullet Bullion | APMEX Ammo

We went with a bit of gold back when 1999 was drawing to a close and the world was about to end. Not enough to sustain us for long periods of time, but maybe enough to bribe our way across a border or something. Decided if the world got that bad we were all screwed anyway, so while we haven't sold we didn't add anything (until this Christmas, when I got the gal a bunch of indian head nickles to maybe use as buttons and a gold indian to match.
I thought you were being a bit condescending here, but I may have misinterpreted it ?

If you weren't, I apologize for my reply.




ATTN brewer12345 Part II

Quote:
I don't personally feel the need to own gold or silver in physical form to protect me from inflation. If that is why you want to do so, come out and say it rather than throwing a tantrum
I don't have to explain to you, or anyone else on this thread, my exact reasons for amassing a small amount of silver. As I stated in the original post, & again at the top of this one, I decided I wanted to purchase a set amount of silver, had started doing so, & was simply asking if I was going about it the right way ?

Maybe you should look at the thread title again.
What’s The Best Way To Invest-Speculate In Silver Coins ?

And if you consider my response to calmloki a tantrum, then we definitely disagree on the definition.





ATTN MichaelB:

Quote:
If you have decided to acquire the coins and don't care to discuss this in the thread, there's no need to respond to posts that raise that question. Just focus on the posts you find helpful
I have decided to acquire coins, I have already started buying them. I was just asking others about different ways of going about it. All at once with a box of 500, or continue doing it the way I'm doing it now ?

But I realize now, your suggestion to focus on the posts I found helpful, & not reply to those that I didn’t, would have been much wiser.
I’ll remember that in the future.



ATTN W2R:

Quote:
Basically, my conclusion after reading the thread thus far, is that it appears that most of us are not wildly enthusiastic about your approach to investing
Did you read my original post ?
I clearly stated that it was only going to be a small percentage of my portfolio, that I had already started buying silver 50 Cent pieces on eBay, & I was only asking if it would be better, to instead buy a large box of 500 coins all at once ?

My approach to investing has done very well, thank you.

If you want to dedicate a small percentage of your portfolio to Chinese tea, that's perfectly fine by me

I should've made it more clear when I said I'd accept all opinions/suggestions. I wasn't asking for investment advice from yourself or anyone else, I should have stipulated that the only advice I wanted was pertaining to which of the two ways would be better ?

If I ever start a similar thread again, I'll post the following.
I don't want your advice about this particular investment. If you don't believe in it don't post any replies.

Lesson learned.




Once again, thanks to all those who ‘understood’ what I was asking & replied.
__________________
"No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast"
ownyourfuture is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 03:18 PM   #31
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: The Deep South Bay
Posts: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
No need to be rude. Basically, my conclusion after reading the thread thus far, is that it appears that most of us are not wildly enthusiastic about your approach to investing.

If you have confidence in your plans, go right ahead. There's no reason to get upset if/when others do not break out in enthusiastic applause.

My opinion? I tend to agree with brewer12345 on this one, in that I wouldn't put money in precious metals for all the tea in China. In my case, I'm more of a very broad index fund, buy-and-hold type of gal.


i'll be your Huckleberry, i have zero paper assets.. i hold nothing but real estate, gold, and guns, its been working great for me for the past 8 years, FIRE with my net worth increasing, not to say i never made money on stocks, without stocks i wouldnt have what i have today...
at this writing i have $99.68 in my checking accoiunt but enough gold, silver and bullets to capsize my brothers $50K bass boat
97guns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 03:35 PM   #32
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 45,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
No need to be rude. Basically, my conclusion after reading the thread thus far, is that it appears that most of us are not wildly enthusiastic about your approach to investing.

If you have confidence in your plans, go right ahead. There's no reason to get upset if/when others do not break out in enthusiastic applause.

My opinion? I tend to agree with brewer12345 on this one, in that I wouldn't put money in precious metals for all the tea in China. In my case, I'm more of a very broad index fund, buy-and-hold type of gal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownyourfuture View Post
ATTN W2R:

Did you read my original post ?
I clearly stated that it was only going to be a small percentage of my portfolio, that I had already started buying silver 50 Cent pieces on eBay, & I was only asking if it would be better, to instead buy a large box of 500 coins all at once ?

My approach to investing has done very well, thank you.

If you want to dedicate a small percentage of your portfolio to Chinese tea, that's perfectly fine by me

I should've made it more clear when I said I'd accept all opinions/suggestions. I wasn't asking for investment advice from yourself or anyone else, I should have stipulated that the only advice I wanted was pertaining to which of the two ways would be better ?
Neither?

To some of us, a question like that is almost like asking, "I'm uninsured and own several properties. Should I set my house on fire and watch it burn, or should I blow it up?" I don't like that approach to investing. Sorry if my opinion is not what you were hoping for.
__________________
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61.
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 03:35 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Dash man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Limerick
Posts: 3,399
Read "The Death of Money: The Coming Collapse of the International Monetary System" by James Rickards.
Dash man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 03:52 PM   #34
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: The Deep South Bay
Posts: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash man View Post
Read "The Death of Money: The Coming Collapse of the International Monetary System" by James Rickards.


or pull your head out of the sand, either read is a good one
97guns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 04:00 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Dash man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Limerick
Posts: 3,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97guns View Post
or pull your head out of the sand, either read is a good one


No reason for comments like that.
Dash man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 04:01 PM   #36
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland again!
Posts: 35,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97guns View Post
or pull your head out of the sand, either read is a good one
Are you referring to the book "Pull Your Head out of the Sand" by Reizer? https://www.amazon.com/Pull-Your-Hea.../dp/1105402622
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 04:42 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Dash man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Limerick
Posts: 3,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Are you referring to the book "Pull Your Head out of the Sand" by Reizer? https://www.amazon.com/Pull-Your-Hea.../dp/1105402622


I guess proper punctuation and citations can make a world of difference.
Dash man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 04:50 PM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97guns View Post
i'll be your Huckleberry, i have zero paper assets.. i hold nothing but real estate, gold, and guns, its been working great for me for the past 8 years, FIRE with my net worth increasing, not to say i never made money on stocks, without stocks i wouldnt have what i have today...
at this writing i have $99.68 in my checking accoiunt but enough gold, silver and bullets to capsize my brothers $50K bass boat
Well, guns not so much lately and perhaps for the next few years.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

- George Orwell

Ezekiel 23:20
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 04:59 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 6,719
[QUOTE=ownyourfuture;1875004]...
ATTN calmloki

You replied to brewer12345, who had asked…

with this

I thought you were being a bit condescending here, but I may have misinterpreted it ?

If you weren't, I apologize for my reply.


...

No condescension intended - it amused me to imagine other possible uses for silver. Sounds like you want silver because you want it, even though you aren't going all in on it and only plan to own a small percentage of your NW in silver. Sounds much like me with the small physical gold holding I mentioned. No good solid defensible reason, but who cares? - you want it you want it.
calmloki is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 05:26 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,689
Hey Ownyourfuture...

Thanks for the answers to the questions... I guess I forgot or just did not see it that you were not a prepper... my bad...

But I will go back to my other post on owning physical metal... it just costs way too much to be a good investment... just like a low cost index fund is better than a high cost fund (index or not), a low cost way of 'holding' silver is better than a high cost way of owning silver...


Look at SLV... expense ration of .5% instead of 3% or more when you buy and sell... (well, I guess that if you plan to hold long term, then maybe that cost to buy and sell can be less).... OH, if you want to short silver you can use ZSL....


BTW, you example of the $2 paper and $2 coins is a bad one... if you invested that hypothetical $2 it would have grown over time... and would be worth MUCH more than the silver coins....


Also, I have seen studies that show gold is a hedge but I have never seen one where they say silver is a hedge. Over the last 5 years gold is down 24% and silver is down 45% so it does not seem like silver is a substitute for gold... as a comparison the DOW is up over 60%....

Now, if you go 10 years gold is the winner at 84%, Dow is 54% but silver is only 22%.... but silver did have the big spike when I had bought some for some strange reason and did very well....


So, you say you want silver and that is fine and dandy.... but for the life of me I cannot understand why....
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Time to speculate on up move? Lsbcal Active Investing, Market Strategies & Alternative Assets 18 10-20-2016 05:20 PM
Gold and silver coins FinallyRetired FIRE and Money 3 04-18-2007 03:53 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.