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Old 05-02-2017, 08:23 AM   #61
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Koolau,

I had asked about showing where silver was the PM of choice... I have read where gold is a good hedge and there are a number of portfolio choices out there that use it.... some up to 25%.... I have seen none where they suggest holding silver...

So, do not confuse a study of gold to mean all PM... heck, platinum is another PM... but not much talk about it...


I know OP has said he is not doing it for prepper needs... but a number of people keep talking about using it for that... but if things go so bad that the US dollar is not going to be taken as currency then the likelyhood of someone actually taking silver is going to be slim.... IOW, if it were really bad and I had food and water or fuel and you wanted it... my commodity is now worth MUCH more than you little bit of silver... why would I want to trade
I agree that gold is the more traditional PM for portfolio modulation, but silver - though more volatile, especially in "good" times - has shown the same modulating effect in MY portfolio. Full disclosure, my PM allocation is about 3 to 1 in favor of gold. I don't hold platinum although it is more "valuable" in that it's more difficult to go dig up more of it (and there is dramatically less of it stored.)

Again, I'm sure a situation you suggest (where PMs are not accepted even in lieu of a useless paper currency) could happen. I just think it's a lot less likely than a case where folks are frightened enough that paper becomes useless BUT PMs still hold value. This sort of thing has happened throughout history. Consider all the existing currencies (excluding "renamed" or totally revalued currencies such as the current Peso and what became known as "new franks" in France, etc. etc.) There are actually VERY few currencies still in existence that were around just a few hundred (or even a few decades) ago. BUT gold is still "money" by almost any definition you can find for that term. Always has been - most likely always will be - unless they find an economic way to extract all the gold from the oceans, heh, heh. So, could lead be the new currency. Yeah. Will it? I say "not likely" but YMMV.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:48 AM   #62
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I bought Silver Maple Leafs in mint wrapping via eBay from 1999-2001 probably about 500 ounces. Not for end of world just because they were pretty and I started buying them to give them as 'birth year' gifts to people who were having babies. My father had given us each one or two silver dollars each year on our birthdays. It was a very economical way to buy them.
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:24 PM   #63
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How is that silver investment now


At 15.60 and falling... lowest since 2009....


Gold isn't doing much better... but still a bit better...
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:50 PM   #64
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Nice resurrect a half dead thread, rub some salt in the guys wounds and call it a day, hahahah.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:54 AM   #65
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Not that I couldn't figure this out myself, but are the bags of old US silver coins dropping along with the commodity price? Does the ratio between the weight of one of those bags have a standard percent above the commodity price?
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Old 07-11-2017, 08:03 AM   #66
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Not that I couldn't figure this out myself, but are the bags of old US silver coins dropping along with the commodity price? Does the ratio between the weight of one of those bags have a standard percent above the commodity price?


Yes, they're dropping. They also have less silver than bullion coins do. If the price drops a little more I may buy some bullion.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:15 PM   #67
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It looks like time to get in. Bought 1,000 Silver Eagles over the last couple of days. Started to dollar-cost-average some gold Pamps, but will switch to gold U.S. coins based on the advice of the more helpful members...(I just had to get used to the higher premium over spot [that is recouped on the back-end].) Their value also seems to go up with age as well. Older silver boxes are about 1.5-2% more expensive per year of age per coin.

My plan is to get to a 5% holding of physical PM - 90% in 1oz. coins and 10% in smaller denomination coins and interesting bullion.

Right now I'm focused on accumulating Silver quickly because it is well below the long-term trend line. Gold is lagging behind, but should follow Silver if history is a guide - hence the cost-averaging @ 3 oz./week through the Summer.

The price of the two PMs are very highly correlated over a very long period but have diverged recently to a historically high 70:1 Silver to Gold price ratio. Silver can rise, or Gold can drop to lower that ratio; and I expect a little of both will be happening over the short-term. I had planned to do an 80/20 allocation of Gold to Silver but will probably end up much closer to 60/40 due to Silver being below $16.

Outside of holding PM for diversification, I'd love to buy a wood crate of 10 oz. Scottsdale raw silver bars and some 25gr. Pamp sheets just for fun, and to motivate my brother's kids to invest. (It's only about $10K/box.)
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:50 PM   #68
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Non collectible grade Morgan dollars are easy to buy and sell on E-bay. Just don't pay too much.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:19 PM   #69
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It looks like time to get in. Bought 1,000 Silver Eagles over the last couple of days. Started to dollar-cost-average some gold Pamps, but will switch to gold U.S. coins based on the advice of the more helpful members...(I just had to get used to the higher premium over spot [that is recouped on the back-end].) Their value also seems to go up with age as well. Older silver boxes are about 1.5-2% more expensive per year of age per coin.

My plan is to get to a 5% holding of physical PM - 90% in 1oz. coins and 10% in smaller denomination coins and interesting bullion.

Right now I'm focused on accumulating Silver quickly because it is well below the long-term trend line. Gold is lagging behind, but should follow Silver if history is a guide - hence the cost-averaging @ 3 oz./week through the Summer.

The price of the two PMs are very highly correlated over a very long period but have diverged recently to a historically high 70:1 Silver to Gold price ratio. Silver can rise, or Gold can drop to lower that ratio; and I expect a little of both will be happening over the short-term. I had planned to do an 80/20 allocation of Gold to Silver but will probably end up much closer to 60/40 due to Silver being below $16.

Outside of holding PM for diversification, I'd love to buy a wood crate of 10 oz. Scottsdale raw silver bars and some 25gr. Pamp sheets just for fun, and to motivate my brother's kids to invest. (It's only about $10K/box.)
Just a very long term comment, from 1792 till the 1880s the silver gold ratio was 15 to 16 to one (back when the US used both gold and silver as the monetary reserve) Here is a link to a paper by Issac Newton (when he was master of the mint) giving a silver to gold ratio of 15.5 to one: Isaac Newton, On the Value of Gold and Silver in European Currencies and the Consequences on the World-wide Gold- and Silver-Trade (September 1717).
A big part of the change is the elimination of silver as any part of monetary reserves in the latter part of the 19th century to go on the pure gold standard.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:34 PM   #70
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Just a very long term comment, from 1792 till the 1880s the silver gold ratio was 15 to 16 to one (back when the US used both gold and silver as the monetary reserve) Here is a link to a paper by Issac Newton (when he was master of the mint) giving a silver to gold ratio of 15.5 to one: Isaac Newton, On the Value of Gold and Silver in European Currencies and the Consequences on the World-wide Gold- and Silver-Trade (September 1717).
A big part of the change is the elimination of silver as any part of monetary reserves in the latter part of the 19th century to go on the pure gold standard.
Fascinating report by Sir Isaac. Very interesting to consider the arbitrage opportunities that existed in Europe and the barriers to carrying them out. Thanks!
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Old 07-14-2017, 10:10 PM   #71
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It looks like time to get in. Bought 1,000 Silver Eagles over the last couple of days. Started to dollar-cost-average some gold Pamps, but will switch to gold U.S. coins based on the advice of the more helpful members...(I just had to get used to the higher premium over spot [that is recouped on the back-end].) Their value also seems to go up with age as well. Older silver boxes are about 1.5-2% more expensive per year of age per coin.

My plan is to get to a 5% holding of physical PM - 90% in 1oz. coins and 10% in smaller denomination coins and interesting bullion.

Right now I'm focused on accumulating Silver quickly because it is well below the long-term trend line. Gold is lagging behind, but should follow Silver if history is a guide - hence the cost-averaging @ 3 oz./week through the Summer.

The price of the two PMs are very highly correlated over a very long period but have diverged recently to a historically high 70:1 Silver to Gold price ratio. Silver can rise, or Gold can drop to lower that ratio; and I expect a little of both will be happening over the short-term. I had planned to do an 80/20 allocation of Gold to Silver but will probably end up much closer to 60/40 due to Silver being below $16.

Outside of holding PM for diversification, I'd love to buy a wood crate of 10 oz. Scottsdale raw silver bars and some 25gr. Pamp sheets just for fun, and to motivate my brother's kids to invest. (It's only about $10K/box.)
It's been a very long time since I've purchased any PMs. Have you found a reliable dealer that you feel comfortable with (that you are willing to share.)? I think it just might be time to buy a little silver - doesn't seem likely that you could dig it up and process it for $16. Besides, it has quite a number of uses (though photography has dropped off drastically.)

Thanks for the reference to PAMP sheets. I didn't know what that was until I looked it up. Way cool. Something very appealing about the presentation. Such small pieces of metal, yet so valuable. 1gm is about $40. Less weight to carry around than a couple of $20 bills (though I don't think I'll be carrying gold anytime soon - other than a couple of crowns.)
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:45 PM   #72
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It's been a very long time since I've purchased any PMs. Have you found a reliable dealer that you feel comfortable with (that you are willing to share.)? I think it just might be time to buy a little silver - doesn't seem likely that you could dig it up and process it for $16. Besides, it has quite a number of uses (though photography has dropped off drastically.)

Thanks for the reference to PAMP sheets. I didn't know what that was until I looked it up. Way cool. Something very appealing about the presentation. Such small pieces of metal, yet so valuable. 1gm is about $40. Less weight to carry around than a couple of $20 bills (though I don't think I'll be carrying gold anytime soon - other than a couple of crowns.)
I didn't know that Gold is highly recycled while silver is not, so the supply of silver is used up over time while gold is ever increasing.

I started with a local PM dealer and then made a couple of online silver purchases through APMEX. I'm still waiting to receive the orders - they were placed in the last couple of days. From my research, they seem to be the largest online PM dealer and it's a very convenient way to buy PM. Their prices are very good and they have a lot more options than my local shops (like the PAMP sheets). Shipping is free and no taxes to worry about. They offer a discount for cash/wire pricing and I get free wire transfers at my bank, so that's very convenient too.

I don't like to buy my gold online yet, but I'm totally comfortable buying silver. You can do it 24/7 and lock in your purchases at the best spot prices whenever you want. With gold, I want them to test it in front of me. I'm sure I'll get over it eventually.
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:07 PM   #73
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I use Texas Precious Metals. I've bought gold from them online and wired the money to them. Had the gold within 2-3 business days.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:18 PM   #74
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I don't hold platinum although it is more "valuable" in that it's more difficult to go dig up more of it (and there is dramatically less of it stored.)
My first husband worked for Engelhard and we used to have a giant poster charting the spot prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium over time (with a different y-axis scale for silver since it was so much cheaper). I'm guessing that the chart ended around 1985 so this is ancient history but platinum was nearly always more expensive than gold. The few times they were close were aberrations.

Now every time I look, platinum is worth less than gold (currently $925 vs. $1,229). I've had 2 rings reset in platinum settings and bought one (very light) platinum chain and believe me, they ALWAYS charge more for platinum partly because it's harder to work.

Any idea why platinum has been cheaper than gold for so long? I know it used to be an important component of catalytic converters. A little OT but I thought this group might have an answer.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:17 PM   #75
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My first husband worked for Engelhard and we used to have a giant poster charting the spot prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium over time (with a different y-axis scale for silver since it was so much cheaper). I'm guessing that the chart ended around 1985 so this is ancient history but platinum was nearly always more expensive than gold. The few times they were close were aberrations.

Now every time I look, platinum is worth less than gold (currently $925 vs. $1,229). I've had 2 rings reset in platinum settings and bought one (very light) platinum chain and believe me, they ALWAYS charge more for platinum partly because it's harder to work.

Any idea why platinum has been cheaper than gold for so long? I know it used to be an important component of catalytic converters. A little OT but I thought this group might have an answer.
If i read the article correctly , all about supply and demand and the strong dollar hurt platinum. https://www.pressreader.com/india/th...82278139189227
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Old 07-16-2017, 08:39 AM   #76
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I have some Mint State silver coins, such as the full set of Walking Liberty Halves from the 40's. But they were not purchased to catch any rise in silver prices.....they are simply a pretty coin with lots of history behind them.

I am thinking of purchasing a bag of circulated Silver coins or maybe the Silver Rounds. Will either go with APMEX or Texas PM. These would serve as a Portfolio Protector, or in the Worst Case Scenario....buy safe passage to an Island in the Caribbean (oh my !!).
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:29 PM   #77
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I am thinking of purchasing a bag of circulated Silver coins or maybe the Silver Rounds
Just for fun, I looked-up the spreads on pre-1965 US coins. Kitco appears to be selling for 14% above the price of the contained silver, and buying for 10% below the price of contained silver. If you add-in shipping cost, they're selling for 17% above. Their shipping charge is $30 for a 5 lb package, plus insurance, so that's a money maker for them, I'm sure.

Anyway, as I suspected, those monster spreads are still there. That has always kept me away from doing anything with PM. I only looked at Kitco because I'd done some research there for someone else.
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:51 PM   #78
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I trade SLV and SIVR on both small moves and long term trends. It's been tough the last few years. I've made money in many areas of the markets over the decades but I never seem to be a winner when I play with PM's. Definitely would have been better off buying VTI and tucking it in for a long nap.

I haven't held physical silver for many years. The spreads are too big.
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:43 PM   #79
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Any idea why platinum has been cheaper than gold for so long? I know it used to be an important component of catalytic converters. A little OT but I thought this group might have an answer.

China, India, and some European countries have been increasing their gold reserves. Protecting themselves in case of a global financial crisis with all the money printing going on.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:22 PM   #80
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Note that one of the reasons silver has gone down is the end of film photography. It was a major user of silver, and is now a far smaller used than 20 years ago being replaced by digital. Also I wonder how much sterling silver tableware is now purchased.
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