What's life like with 100K/year or more?

[SteveR]

Thank you SteveR. I like the "helping the needy family members" part the most. In your opinion, is that the most satisfying act one can do with their extra money?

I married into a large family and with all large families there are personal problems with some members that allows for some "charity starts at home" kind of spending. I would much rather help out a family member than write a check to some faceless organization where I have no idea where the money goes. This is a direct relationship and I can see the effect. It also gives me a chance to see if I would ever help them again.

Some have been loans due to some personal issues and other times it was a gift to keep the wolf away from the door.....no expectation of being repaid by other than being thanked for the help.

The gifts have come with a price tag however. The recipient has to endure my speaches on LBYM, FIRE and getting out of debt. I have distributed a few books to some family members and when I see them again I ask to see if they have read it yet. For one member, I researched a ton of information that I provided to them with the expecation that they actually apply for some help from the state. They did so and are very happy to have been shown what was available to them. We have had only one negative issue so far and we hope to resolve that pretty soon. Otherwise, I am very happy to be able to help out my family when there is a true need. No one has asked for a hand out and no one would. These are very proud people that have fallen on some hard times.

 

[bongo2]

On the original question: I'm also surprized to see 100k spending characterized as the "high life." I spend almost that just maintaining my typical middle class family without any fancy cars or expensive vacations. Layer on a nice house, a place on the beach, couple of BMW or Suburban's, boat, private school for the kids, all the electronics/cable/phones/computers, a cruse or two, the occassional remodeling and landscaping job, and it is easy to get to $300k.

I fly a lot of first class, and it's nice but not worth anything like $1k, let alone $5k. Virtually no one in first class is paying that much either. Either they fly so much that the airline's put them there for free, they got some package deal from a travel company, they are using miles to get up front, or they are buying such an expensive ticket anyway (last minute full fare or something) that it is only a couple bucks more.

Personally, I hate private planes, and you have to pay me to sit in one. They are convenient -- I'll give them that.

 

[audreyh1]

I can see how a middle/upper class family with a nice house, vacation house, multiple cars and kids to educate (plus the need for some extra toys to counteract the stress of professional life) could spend 100K+ per year, especially if you live in one of the more expensive parts of the country.

But once you are retired, educations paid for, kids no longer financially dependent, home(s) paid for, less need for maintaining multiple homes or extra toys - then spending 100K+ per year seems harder.

Travel expenses can be a bottomless pit, but once you become an experienced traveler it's easy to get close to the same bang for much fewer bucks (if not do even better).

All I know is that we are spending significantly less, and we don't even "try". We don't worry about how expensive a campground is or how often we eat out and buy top quality groceries. In fact, our expenses have come down every year. By RV fulltimer standards we are probably living the high life, but it's still way less than 100K/year.

Maybe we don't have expensive tastes. But then again, there is really only so much "stuff" you can buy. We really don't buy much "stuff" anymore. We tend to spend on experiences instead.

Audrey

P.S. Well, I think we do have expensive tastes - or at least my husband does. If he's going to buy a piece of camera equipment, for example, it's going to be the top of the line or close. Fortunately he only occasionally identifies a new "need".

 

[P.S.]

fulltime babysitter + remodelling investment properties + typical LBYM couple with 1 babe = $100k plus

we still save more than we spend though.

BTW, while interviewing for our DS childcare, didn't notice much difference between "nanny" and babysitter, except that the former charges more.

 

[youbet]

All this talk of $100K/yr being a lot of $$$ caused me to go look at our budget. Here are the major line items. "Checking" is based on a pre-retirement average of 48.5K over the past four years. "Pocket" at 500/mo might be a little high and if so some will be moved to vacation.

Checking 45
Taxes - income 25
Hospitalization 15
Pocket 6
Vacation 10
House maint. 5
Cars 4
Total 110

So far,we're just not having any problem spending at a rate over $100K without doing anything outrageous. We're only 3.5 months into this. Maybe a year from now we'll discover we don't need that much and will have to find ways to pick up the pace.

 

[CybrMike]

All of my experience is in the DOT-COM arena, and I'm here to tell you, the engineers do all the work, the management and upper management has it easy (I am one of the former engineers, now upper mgmt).

Perhaps in a more corporate environment, it can be more stressful & actual work as opposed to just running meetings and keeping everyone accountable.

Didn't mean to get everyone's panties in a bunch, just where I come from, CEO's and the like are more managerial/operational and the work is not tough. In order to get there though, you have got to have a proven track record, etc.

Plus, when you have a few million in the bank, even the most stressful situations don't seem quite as stressful.

 

[audreyh1]

All this talk of $100K/yr being a lot of $$$ caused me to go look at our budget. Here are the major line items. "Checking" is based on a pre-retirement average of 48.5K over the past four years. "Pocket" at 500/mo might be a little high and if so some will be moved to vacation.

Checking 45
Taxes - income 25
Hospitalization 15
Pocket 6
Vacation 10
House maint. 5
Cars 4
Total 110

So far,we're just not having any problem spending at a rate over $100K without doing anything outrageous. We're only 3.5 months into this. Maybe a year from now we'll discover we don't need that much and will have to find ways to pick up the pace.

Somehow it's hard to imagine "spending" taxes. Yes, it's an expense, but you don't get direct individual benefit from it and you don't have a whole lotta choice in how much they cost.

I can't count the income taxes as part of my living expenses. They are a function of my investment portfolio and have nothing to do with our spending. They do provide a limit to how much we can withdraw from our portfolio any given year as we have to pay the portfolio taxes first, and then see what is left over of our SWR.

If you take income taxes out of the equation, you'll see that it's a little harder to spend 100K per year after retirement.

Audrey

 

[youbet]

Well, I write checks to pay income taxes, just like when I pay the Visa bill. And the money is gone just like when I pay the Visa bill. I have to have cash flow to cover taxes. It's kind of like mandatory spending and it's easiest for me to think of taxes as an expense rather than as a deduction to income. That way, at estimated tax time, the money is there to cover the check. Uncle just hates bounced checks.........

If you're saying that to make an apples to apples comparison, I should exclude income tax expense from the budget, then I agree that $100K should cover a middle class retirement nicely. At least it would for us.

 

[audreyh1]

I have to have cash flow to cover taxes.

That's the thing - I don't pay income taxes unless I have the taxable cash flow. And it has nothing to do with my living expenses (as sales taxes do). I can't "plan" or "budget" for it, because the taxable distributions or realized gains thrown off by my investments are usually unpredictable.

As soon as something occurs with my investments that incurs income tax, the tax amount gets pulled out into the "estimated taxes" account. I never actually "see" it as income.

And I've actually had some years where the income taxes paid on my investments exceeded my living expenses!!

Audrey

 

[Sam]

If you take income taxes out of the equation, you'll see that it's a little harder to spend 100K per year after retirement.

In the context of this thread, I guess a few others also don't really qualify as expenses like "remodeling investment properties", private school tuition (somewhat debatable, I admit), charity. There might be more.

 

[SteveR]

All of my experience is in the DOT-COM arena, and I'm here to tell you, the engineers do all the work, the management and upper management has it easy (I am one of the former engineers, now upper mgmt).

I find it very hard to believe that only the engineers are working to make any business venture successful. There are many many individuals who all contribute to the success or failure of any business. The guy(s) at the top may not be crunching code or creating specs. for products but they do indeed work to keep the whole boat afloat. The work just changes in they type and the extent of it.

Perhaps in a more corporate environment, it can be more stressful & actual work as opposed to just running meetings and keeping everyone accountable.

I guess it all depends on your definition of "work". Stressing out a solution to some major problems in your brain may look like daydreaming but it is indeed work. Keeping engineers and other accountable for time and money is in fact WORK. Somebody has to watch the money come and go and be accountable for all of it. Someone has to create a vision of the future and make it happen. Someone has to provide a rudder to the business or it will fail. Someone has to keep the bankers, regulatory agencies, customers and employees happy....that is work.



The perceived amount of work is always different between groups. While physical work is obvious (digging ditches, loading trucks, assembling widgets, crunching numbers, testing products, making sales calls, etc. is more obvious and quantifiable, other forms are very difficult to see. Thinking, planning, focusing on the future, checking the competition, schmoozing bankers and others who can influence the business is work of a different color but work none the same. Not trying to nit pick...just wanting to give a clearer view of life at the top.

 

[Sam]

All of my experience is in the DOT-COM arena, and I'm here to tell you, the engineers do all the work, the management and upper management has it easy (I am one of the former engineers, now upper mgmt).

Perhaps in a more corporate environment, it can be more stressful & actual work as opposed to just running meetings and keeping everyone accountable.

Didn't mean to get everyone's panties in a bunch, just where I come from, CEO's and the like are more managerial/operational and the work is not tough. In order to get there though, you have got to have a proven track record, etc.

Plus, when you have a few million in the bank, even the most stressful situations don't seem quite as stressful.

The more you write, CybrMike, the less I feel you're real.

May be your situation is real, but to me, most everything you said so far bear little resemblance to the reality I've seen and experienced. I'm not referring to your wealth, I'm talking about your claim about less work as one moves up the ladder even at .COM companies.

 

[youbet]

I can't "plan" or "budget" for it, because the taxable distributions or realized gains thrown off by my investments are usually unpredictable.

OK, your method clearly makes sense for you. I'm recently ER'd and most of my current spending money is derived from income subject to ordinary income taxes. Then, like you, I have investment income. I do do tax planning for both my ordinary income and investment income and pay estimated taxes quarterly. Even though my portfolio is structured to be tax efficient, the taxes on the investment income are harder to forecast and require revision throughout the year. I do so to ensure I have liquid funds available at estimated tax time.

I understand what you're doing, and it certainly makes sense for you to do it that way.

 

[shiny]

Stressing out a solution to some major problems in your brain may look like daydreaming but it is indeed work.

Thinking, planning, focusing on the future... is work of a different color but work none the same.

Hmmm, I guess I'm only semi-retired!

 

[kcowan]

The more you write, CybrMike, the less I feel you're real.

May be your situation is real, but to me, most everything you said so far bear little resemblance to the reality I've seen and experienced.

I think he does not appreciate that just because they seem to be enjoyiing it and aren't b*tching, they must be having it easy.

Have you ever seen how much Tiger Woods smiles, but only after a great shot or in the interviews after a win? And he has been working at it since he was 3!

I think a conscientious CEO has one of the toughest jobs on the planet. Sure there are exceptions. But there are also workers that deserve to be fired who only do what they like to do, not what is needed.

 

[Spanky]

Have you ever seen how much Tiger Woods smiles, but only after a great shot or in the interviews after a win? And he has been working at it since he was 3!

Yes, it's take a lot of efforts to stay at the top. The pressure or stress is extremly high when you are at the top. I think Tiger could ease up a little and smile more often since he has more than enough money to last for a life time. Relax and enjoy the game. It's not a big deal to lose because he already has more than enough. Forget pride, ego, and fame.

 

[Nords]

It's not a big deal to lose because he already has more than enough. Forget pride, ego, and fame.

It's never been about any of that stuff-- at his level it's about winning and being the best there ever was. Everything else is details.

 

[Spanky]

As they say, "winning is not everything, but it's the only thing."

 

[yakers]

The more you write, CybrMike, the less I feel you're real.

May be your situation is real, but to me, most everything you said so far bear little resemblance to the reality I've seen and experienced. I'm not referring to your wealth, I'm talking about your claim about less work as one moves up the ladder even at .COM companies.

I think it can be either way. I remember my first (short) job in sales. The senior guys did not really work long hours or beat the bushes and they made the most money by far. But they developed their customers over many years and were *very* careful about keeping them happy. But I still remember seeing one fellow at about 45 years old with kids in school and mortgage lose his major customer. He looked like someone from a bunker in WWII. His life was instantly shot, I expect from not LBYM. I knew I wanted more security than that.
A lot of senior jobs are about relationships and who will answer your call. And one fellow I worked for at NASA had a "simple" job, he would decide what would fly on the shuttle. The pressure from competing interests was tremendous but there were not many decisions to make. So it was simple, not easy, and he was well connected so the decisions would hold up. A junior person could have made the same decision analytically but would have been ground up by the political process as they would not have had the backing of key people.
And there was a relative of mine who was a radiologist who would make $200K a year just looking at X-rays.
Then there are people like my wife who just retired from teaching. Although she learned a lot about assigning and grading work and organizing her class over the years; still, every year she got a new batch of students and had a similar quantum of work.

 

[Texas Proud]

On the original question: I'm also surprized to see 100k spending characterized as the "high life." I spend almost that just maintaining my typical middle class family without any fancy cars or expensive vacations. Layer on a nice house, a place on the beach, couple of BMW or Suburban's, boat, private school for the kids, all the electronics/cable/phones/computers, a cruse or two, the occassional remodeling and landscaping job, and it is easy to get to $300k.

I fly a lot of first class, and it's nice but not worth anything like $1k, let alone $5k. Virtually no one in first class is paying that much either. Either they fly so much that the airline's put them there for free, they got some package deal from a travel company, they are using miles to get up front, or they are buying such an expensive ticket anyway (last minute full fare or something) that it is only a couple bucks more.

Personally, I hate private planes, and you have to pay me to sit in one. They are convenient -- I'll give them that.

Hey Bongo..

It is like this lady at work today when I said she was in the upper class.. and her family income is in the high 100s...

I am sure that someone might find this out, but I believe that 'spending' 100 per year would put you in the top 5% of all Americans... I would say that is "high life"...

 

[yakers]

I am sure that someone might find this out, but I believe that 'spending' 100 per year would put you in the top 5% of all Americans... I would say that is "high life"...

I don't know if $100K would be the top 5%, 10% or something else but it doesn't sound like a lot to this southern California person. As brought up earlier in this thread, does this include taxes? Certainly an unavoidable expense. Almost all our income will be from a pension and deferred income so it will pretty much be taxable. So knock off 25 or 30% for taxes and it doesn't look so rich. Then we also have the issue of youngest son will just be starting college and I expect our contribution will be at least $10K a year. Just doesn't feel very rich to me.

 

[AV8]

From the U.S. Census Bureau website, the lower limit of the top 5% of household incomes for 2005 was $166,000. If you make above $91K you are in the upper fifth of all household incomes.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/h01ar.html

AV8

 

[CybrMike]

Well, I'll tell you what, you can come to Indianapolis and I'll let you hang out with me at work for a week and I'll show you.

FYI, I WAS the CEO until this past January when I sold the company. We had about 50 employees, $8 million + in revenue.

Since I sold the company, we are on the second CEO (first one did absolutely nothing, therefore got axed). Second CEO is much more attentive, but its still not really long hours or hard work. Currently we are basically re-inventing the business, so its very challenging. There is probably some stress because he wants to win, but again the really hard workers are the coders who are making the site changes. They are in the trenches getting **** done.

This CEO makes a couple hundred grand per year, gets a lot of stock options, and gets an appt paid for (probably about $4K per month).

Maybe this isn't classified as a "company:. We all call it a "startup" around here, so perhaps that is the difference. Still, I do believe that as a CEO, your main job is to steer the ship. Strategically, Operationally, etc. Sometimes that requires getting down in the trenches (especially when your company is <10 employees), but in larger organizations, its mostly making sure your direct reports are getting their **** done and strategically and operationally steering the ship. Many times this may mean meeting with investors or potential investors. In my opinion, not hard work.

Sorry if your opinion doesn't jive with mine. I've obviously had an unusual experience, definitely not typical.

The more you write, CybrMike, the less I feel you're real.

May be your situation is real, but to me, most everything you said so far bear little resemblance to the reality I've seen and experienced. I'm not referring to your wealth, I'm talking about your claim about less work as one moves up the ladder even at .COM companies.

 

[CybrMike]

I have a clear view. I was there and am still intimately involved in all of the things you describe.

I guess the way I see it, making a couple hundred thousand a year (or much, much, more in many companies) while

"Thinking, planning, focusing on the future, checking the competition, schmoozing bankers and others who can influence the business is work of a different color but work none the same."

is easier than

"digging ditches, loading trucks, assembling widgets, crunching numbers, testing products, making sales calls, etc."

which I guess is what I was referring to when I said its easier to be CEO than be doing any of the above "actual work"

The perceived amount of work is always different between groups. While physical work is obvious (digging ditches, loading trucks, assembling widgets, crunching numbers, testing products, making sales calls, etc. is more obvious and quantifiable, other forms are very difficult to see. Thinking, planning, focusing on the future, checking the competition, schmoozing bankers and others who can influence the business is work of a different color but work none the same. Not trying to nit pick...just wanting to give a clearer view of life at the top.

 

[scrubradio]

Well, I'll tell you what, you can come to Indianapolis and I'll let you hang out with me at work for a week and I'll show you.

I live an hour north of you and would gladly become a student...show me
how to make 100k/year. I don't have anything to offer in return though.