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09-25-2008, 10:01 AM
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#41
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,052
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09-25-2008, 10:06 AM
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#42
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,052
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
Too bad he can't figure out how to win an NBA championship...
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I think he knows how, he should have paid Tim Donaghy more than the bookies did for him to screw the Mavs.
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09-25-2008, 10:10 AM
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#43
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 3,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
why have this crazy system when the market can do this for you? good for him and other rich people that have access to more information. bad for the guy on the street managing his investments
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Hey, we know what our stuff is worth, we should make sure our ass assets are covered:
BuyMyShitPile.com: Hey Washington, can you buy my bad investments too?
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
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09-25-2008, 10:12 AM
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#44
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art G
Audrey, I think you have a pretty good grasp on the situation, but you need to take a more dire view of the results. By naked shorting FNM and FRE, without any concern about covering, it caused the stock to freefall. Considering there was no uptick rule, they didn't have to concern themselves with a ratchet down in price, or even a slowing drop in price. It made them able to tank the stocks!
Now, if you're a shareholder in Fannie Mae, how long are you willing to watch that price go from $60 to $3 before you bail and take your losses?
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Yes - thank you for outlining the additional (and accurate) direness to the picture! It was the combination of no uptick rule and naked shorting (which was illegal but not enforced!!!!) and rating agency ratings that proved so deadly this past month.
With the uptick rule in place, and proper enforcement of naked shorting, it might never have been necessary for the US Govt take over FNM and FRE, and maybe some of the other financial institutions.
I'm sure the US Govt would still have had to step in to some degree due to the massive leveraging of these crazy investment banks, and the mortgage mess, but perhaps not on the current scale.
Audrey
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09-25-2008, 10:14 AM
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#45
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1
I don't think Congress lifted the uptick rule. I think the SEC did that all by themselves.
Audrey
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yeah, but WAY TOO late for it to help.......  Bottom line, hedge funds have exploded in assets, and their leverage advantages using short selling tools that funds and others can't use, finally tipped the house of cards over.
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
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09-25-2008, 10:19 AM
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#46
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,052
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The SEC knew there was a problem. At first they merely stated, no more naked shorting on FNM or FRE. They came back a month or two later to include major banks. Why not, in one swoop, just state no more naked shorting?? Because people in Washington were making a killing in hedge funds.
How long before someone starts suing these hedge funds?
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09-25-2008, 11:45 AM
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#47
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
yeah, but WAY TOO late for it to help....... Bottom line, hedge funds have exploded in assets, and their leverage advantages using short selling tools that funds and others can't use, finally tipped the house of cards over. |
Huh? Way too late? 2007? They shouldn't have removed the uptick rule at all!
Audrey
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09-25-2008, 12:31 PM
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#48
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1
Huh? Way too late? 2007? They shouldn't have removed the uptick rule at all!Audrey
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Why?? It's not like it created a liquidity crisis or anything. Bottom line, if the hedge funds had to follow rules like the mutual funds do, noone would invest in them, because the their advantage would be neutralized.......
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
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09-25-2008, 12:51 PM
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#49
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,880
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Hey, I just figured out how the government could make a profit on the bailout. The key is to get people to pay their subprime mortgages, right? So, d'uh, we just send this guy out to make the collections!
__________________
Al
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09-25-2008, 01:22 PM
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#50
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,490
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the ultimate "cost" of this will all depend on whether 1) "we" make a habit of doing it, and 2) how much political advantage is taken of the situation. if done well and "clean", the "cost" could indeed be 0 or negative. but given the way things usually go with politicians ... .
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09-25-2008, 01:49 PM
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#51
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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Wait until the other shoe drops...when people get their mortgages renegotiated down to current levels, and then 7 years from now when they sell, they pick up a nice profit...tax free!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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09-25-2008, 03:19 PM
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#52
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
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I'm still waiting for that Iraq war to start paying for itself.. as dozens of Very Serious and Important People said it would.
I think the chances are right in around there..
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09-25-2008, 03:33 PM
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#53
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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Oh look, its now a soapbox post!
I wonder what the foreclosure rate in Iraq is?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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09-25-2008, 04:09 PM
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#54
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
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Ha ha.. apologies.. some of these bailout finance things are in both places.
I'm just saying, we've been promised profits before, and I'd like to see more evidence as to how they think we'd arrive there before jumping on board.
I don't see that as particularly partisan thinking, but I will try to remember to check the heading so as not to risk offending..
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09-25-2008, 08:54 PM
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#55
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
I don't see that as particularly partisan thinking, but I will try to remember to check the heading so as not to risk offending..
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Feel free to offend me anytime.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
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09-26-2008, 04:45 AM
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#56
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 717
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The true cost of the bailout is the suspension of free markets and higher inflation. Greenspan had been holding interest rates artificiallylow for wall street through long term capital, Y2K, 911, etc etc etc. Bernake followed his lead and now that the Fed is out of bullets (or on their last bullet), they're knocking on your door to try and interrupt the business cycle yet again.
__________________
Random Reinforcement is Highly Addictive.
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09-26-2008, 10:04 AM
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#57
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,052
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In my opinion, Bernanke pulled the trigger waaaaaay too soon. He emptied his gun of bullets long before the battle had begun.
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09-26-2008, 02:18 PM
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#58
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 197
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__________________
it's the journey that matters
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09-26-2008, 02:40 PM
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#59
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,635
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CG-Nice site and information. In some cases (notably Chrysler and NYC) the Treasury did not lose.
__________________
Vietnam Veteran, CW4 USA, Retired 1979
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09-29-2008, 01:28 PM
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#60
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,052
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Apparently the cost is zero. Being that they can't agree on a plan that puts money in all of their pockets.....and yes, I am very cynical today.
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