When Adult Kids Have To Deal With Parents Bad Choices

[splitwdw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden sunsets I guess you're right. Snapping pics of the scraps of paper makes sense, but something "made them look". I guess they must have suspected. At any rate, Michelle Singletary seemed to want to bend over backwards to address the ethical point. I would not have been too troubled to look, although I would have preferred that it was the Daughter who looked, rather than the SIL. My Mom began exhibiting signs of dementia a couple of years ago and I am an only child. I swooped in and took over everything. Her issue though was not gambling. She had become a target of a phony lottery winning scam. I detailed that situation on this forum at the time. She was getting multiple calls daily and I could not convince her to screen her calls, or just hang up. She would talk to the guy every time. There was this teeny tiny hope in her mind I'm sure that she had actually won these ever growing large sums of money. This went on for months. Fast forward 2 years later and my Mom now 93 and a half has full blown dementia, virtually no short term memory and is in an Assisted Living Facility. I was lucky in that she never followed the caller's instructions, which probably involved buying cash cards or some other scam to get her money. In any event, the article that I posted reminded me of what happens when our parents age. Cat's cradle - the child becomes the parent.

It's hard to tell from the article but it sounds more like the son in law was nosey rather than "something made them look". Sorry, my bs gauge goes off and we really can't tell without all the details.
I remember your post about your mom and felt bad for both of you. I can't imagine what it's like to deal with that. It makes me mad that people are out there trying to steal from older adults. My parents and grandparents don't have any of these issues so far

[ivinsfan]

This is not a parent issue but what obligation does one have to a friend of several decades who has gotten himself into a terrible money issue, mainly due to what I consider a long time shopping addictions to high clothes, furniture, and the like. He doesn't share with many people, but confided to us he only 1000 a month in SS coming in, spent his entire 401 in the last 2 and a half years and hasn't filed a tax return since 2015 because he didn't do withholding and doesn't have the money to pay his taxes. He's living off a couple credit cards that are almost maxed out and has an expensive paid off house where the taxes alone are 16K..he doesn't have money for that either.

He has long term diabetes issues, sleep issues and yes depression issues, so I don't even know where to begin. He hasn't asked for money and we wouldn't give him money but what practical things would you say or try to get him to the other side. He'll need to sell his house and get a small apartment, but he's basically a hoarder with really expensive taste. He doesn't have family to talk to so I don't know if we should use tough love or just say to him. "That's too bad, hope it works out", I know it won't work out for him without some intervention from someone.

[Golden sunsets]

Quote:

Originally Posted by splitwdw It's hard to tell from the article but it sounds more like the son in law was nosey rather than "something made them look". Sorry, my bs gauge goes off and we really can't tell without all the details. I remember your post about your mom and felt bad for both of you. I can't imagine what it's like to deal with that. It makes me mad that people are out there trying to steal from older adults. My parents and grandparents don't have any of these issues so far

Dealing with dementia is REALLY tough. I feel like I have already "lost" my Mom. Someday there will be a second loss. And I feel huge guilt. I can't even tell you why, but I do, nevertheless. It is hard to describe how sad these Assisted Living Facilities are. And the one that my Mom is in is a bit of a country club. The staff is good, but the lives of the residents are just - well - "not good". Sometimes I almost think my Mom is better off, not really understanding her surroundings.

Sorry - I digress. In the case of the family in the article, it may be noseyness. I know though that I sure became nosey when my Mom started to lose it.

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan This is not a parent issue but what obligation does one have to a friend of several decades who has gotten himself into a terrible money issue, mainly due to what I consider a long time shopping addictions to high clothes, furniture, and the like. He doesn't share with many people, but confided to us he only 1000 a month in SS coming in, spent his entire 401 in the last 2 and a half years and hasn't filed a tax return since 2015 because he didn't do withholding and doesn't have the money to pay his taxes. He's living off a couple credit cards that are almost maxed out and has an expensive paid off house where the taxes alone are 16K..he doesn't have money for that either. He has long term diabetes issues, sleep issues and yes depression issues, so I don't even know where to begin. He hasn't asked for money and we wouldn't give him money but what practical things would you say or try to get him to the other side. He'll need to sell his house and get a small apartment, but he's basically a hoarder with really expensive taste. He doesn't have family to talk to so I don't know if we should use tough love or just say to him. "That's too bad, hope it works out", I know it won't work out for him without some intervention from someone.

Consultations with:
- a debt counselor / Dave Ramsey progran/ bankruptcy attorney ?
- a mental heath professional ?

Maybe he could go back to work?

Short of that , the social safety net programs that I listed earlier would likely be available to him if he has no assets and low income.

IRS will likely lien and levy the house if they are not paid what is owed.

-gauss

[Spock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden sunsets Dealing with dementia is REALLY tough. I feel like I have already "lost" my Mom. Someday there will be a second loss. And I feel huge guilt. I can't even tell you why, but I do, nevertheless. In the case of the family in the article, it may be noseyness. I know though that I sure became nosey when my Mom started to lose it.

At a certain point, the LACK of "noseyness" on the part of children into their parents lives is considered neglect.

in the specifics of this article, the children don't have to say anything to the parents except "no" when the parents ask for more money. At that point the conversation can start of "where did all the money go?"

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gauss Consultations with: - a debt counselor / Dave Ramsey progran/ bankruptcy attorney ? - a mental heath professional ? Maybe he could go back to work? Short of that , the social safety net programs that I listed earlier would likely be available to him if he has no assets and low income. IRS will likely lien and levy the house if they are not paid what is owed. -gauss

No he's 66 and in really bad shape from his diabetes can't work. He's supposed to be filing 2 year worth of tax returns tomorrow and then will ask for a payment schedule saying he has no funds. I figured he should at least file to stop the penalties for not filing and get clarity with IRS before starting the house sale process to try and avoid a lien on his house. That's the only advice we've given him so far.

[gauss]

The IRS will typically offer an IA installment agreement where you agree to pay over up to a 5 year period. If you go this route, just make sure the funds will be there to make the payments as a single missed payment would trigger a default and the collections process would start again.

While on an IA, no liens/levies should take place due to the back taxes.

You can research IRS IA's on the internet. I believe that the interest rate is quite low compared to what people often pay on credit cards etc.

-gauss

p.s. Do you think your friend wants to change his life? Mental Health counseling may be the most productive of all of these strategies.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gauss The IRS will typically offer an IA installment agreement where you agree to pay over up to a 5 year period. If you go this route, just make sure the funds are there to make the payments as a single missed payment will trigger a default. You can research IRS IA's on the internet. I believe that the interest rate is quite low compared to what people often pay on credit cards etc. -gauss

That's the problem it's not our problem and I don't know if he's even going to listen to us, so don't know how much time or emotional energy to invest in the whole process. We feel for him and wish him well, but we have our own stuff to deal with.

[Fedup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan No he's 66 and in really bad shape from his diabetes can't work. He's supposed to be filing 2 year worth of tax returns tomorrow and then will ask for a payment schedule saying he has no funds. I figured he should at least file to stop the penalties for not filing and get clarity with IRS before starting the house sale process to try and avoid a lien on his house. That's the only advice we've given him so far.

Maybe I suspect he knows he’s dying slowly so why bother. Same sentiment my sister has for drinking hard alcohol with her health problems. It’s kind of dying slowly without actually commit suicide outright.

On advice, I’d say sell the house and blow the dough. Worst come worst there is Medicaid for him.

[Fedup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan That's the problem it's not our problem and I don't know if he's even going to listen to us, so don't know how much time or emotional energy to invest in the whole process. We feel for him and wish him well, but we have our own stuff to deal with.

Does he have any kids?

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedup Does he have any kids?

No only two sisters who he doesn't have much contact with.

[jimandthom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedup My cousin’s husband who is 84, spent a lot of money he didn’t have on gambling. Probably borrowing or something. It’s how he coped with the loss of his wife, the love of his life. We only heard about it because his son and my nephew are best buddies from their college years. He was never a gambler before her death. That’s why it’s a surprise.

Similar story, sort of. My o'guy went on a nudie bar binge to the tune of $30K in 9 months. That's what I knew of. Was a wild time for him and me later.

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan That's the problem it's not our problem and I don't know if he's even going to listen to us, so don't know how much time or emotional energy to invest in the whole process. We feel for him and wish him well, but we have our own stuff to deal with.

Well this is a bit of a universal problem - be it family, friend, parent, child etc.

If they won't listen to reason (be it financial , or health care , etc) and not follow the professional's "plan of action" then what can you really do as a third person?

-gauss

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedup Maybe I suspect he knows he’s dying slowly so why bother. Same sentiment my sister has for drinking hard alcohol with her health problems. It’s kind of dying slowly without actually commit suicide outright. On advice, I’d say sell the house and blow the dough. Worst come worst there is Medicaid for him.

And I've noticed from other people that poorly controlled diabetes impedes clear thought process. We live in a cold weather climate and house selling is basically DOA from now until about March so he needs to start selling stuff and belt tightening right now....your comment is spot on my DH and I think he will either engage in the process or basically will himself to die, ie not taking meds properly, or taking a little too much depression meds, which is why I'm struggling with how much to invest in this, I know he needs help.

[Fedup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan And I've noticed from other people that poorly controlled diabetes impedes clear thought process. We live in a cold weather climate and house selling is basically DOA from now until about March so he needs to start selling stuff and belt tightening right now....your comment is spot on my DH and I think he will either engage in the process or basically will himself to die, ie not taking meds properly, or taking a little too much depression meds, which is why I'm struggling with how much to invest in this, I know he needs help.

My sister was sort of dating or kept in touch with one guy who was 56 and had high blood pressure. He didn’t take any medicine or refused to do it. She didn’t hear from him for a while and then saw announcement about his funeral on a local paper she’s subscribed. Will to die. Lots out there. Maybe that’s the way to go without worrying about LTC.

[Texas Proud]

Lots of side stories and issues...


But to the OP article... I think they should bring it up with the parents IF they have the mental ability.... IOW, my mom has had memory problems for years.. a slow decline... talking to her about some bad decisions only meant we felt better as she would say she would not do it again... but did anyway... why? because she did not remember!!!


The only good thing about my mom's problems was it was cheap... buying some overpriced coins, buying books she did not need, subscribing to almost any magazine that offered her something for 'free'...


I made a decision a long time ago to not stress about it and live with the costs... if they were big to then get involved and mitigate if possible (only one time I had to do it)... she has plenty of money so it was not me giving up mine, but I would probably do the same if it were... IOW, if their mind cannot grasp it then there is nothing you CAN do...

[ivinsfan]

If it's parents I agree you have more skin in the game, but helping or staying out of other peoples money issues is an ongoing discussion, really one and the same IMO. So not really a side story or issue.

[spncity]

Elderly relative was doing much of the above - being scammed - seeming competent, but running through money to "charities" and then sweepstakes.


The family hired an interventionist to get the elder to voluntarily turn over management of the finances. Best money ever spent.

[ncbill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan This is not a parent issue but what obligation does one have to a friend of several decades who has gotten himself into a terrible money issue, mainly due to what I consider a long time shopping addictions to high clothes, furniture, and the like. He doesn't share with many people, but confided to us he only 1000 a month in SS coming in, spent his entire 401 in the last 2 and a half years and hasn't filed a tax return since 2015 because he didn't do withholding and doesn't have the money to pay his taxes. He's living off a couple credit cards that are almost maxed out and has an expensive paid off house where the taxes alone are 16K..he doesn't have money for that either. He has long term diabetes issues, sleep issues and yes depression issues, so I don't even know where to begin. He hasn't asked for money and we wouldn't give him money but what practical things would you say or try to get him to the other side. He'll need to sell his house and get a small apartment, but he's basically a hoarder with really expensive taste. He doesn't have family to talk to so I don't know if we should use tough love or just say to him. "That's too bad, hope it works out", I know it won't work out for him without some intervention from someone.

Yep, it seems people hold onto homes long after they can't afford them anymore.

I'm now caregiver for an older relative, diagnosed with terminal cancer literally last month (on Hospice now) who should have sold their home a decade ago.

They would have able to live a lot more comfortably during those years (rather than spend what limited income they had mostly on the house) and would have had more choices even now.

[nhcycling]

My 85 MIL is living on SS; has a good sized mortgage, barely makes ends meet and needs $ assistance for heat, property taxes etc. plus requires her adult children’s assistance with daily living: housekeeping, meals, appointments etc. What gets me is the burden falls on 2 of 4 of the adult children and she thinks a good portion of her assets should be left to her lazy unemployed adult grandchildren who offer no assistance with non financial care at all, ugh!