When Adult Kids Have To Deal With Parents Bad Choices

[Golden sunsets]

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/10...t-kids-have-to-deal-with-parents-bad-choices/

I thought this was an interesting story. The article chronicles a couple's ethical dilemma after inadvertently finding out that parents who they have helped financially, are squandering some of their limited resources. I think the need to stage some sort of intervention outweighs the ethics of having obtained the information inadvertently. Thoughts?

 

[CaptTom]

Interesting dilemma, thanks for posting!

The best answer I could come up with (and I'd hate to have to do it!) would be to ask the parents to review their finances with you when they ask for money. Presumably that would lead to the question of "where did this $xxx go?"

Somehow I doubt it would be that simple.

 

[Fedup]

Maybe it’s a form of entertainment for them. It says hundred of dollars, $200, $500, $900, how much really. It’s it’s $200 than it’s not so bad, but more than that. Who knows.

 

[Spock]

I'm in a very similar boat now.
83yr old Dad (widower) shovels $1400/month (that I know of, I'm joint on his checking but not on his credit cards or how he spends cash) to various "charities".
The word "charities" are in quotes because when I research them they are usually a lot more hype than charity. One of the "charities" published in their annual report that they loaned the founder over a $1M so he could buy rental property and the "charity" is holding over $3M in physical gold... When I gave dad the background on a "charity", he calls them and asks them if they are a scam... they of course say "no" and he takes them at their word ("Christians don't lie").



Dad has income. Its his money. He can spend it how he wants. He's my dad and I'd be happy to help him save a buck. Except.

• He won't spend $50 on a house keeper come in and clean his trailer once in awhile... instead he expects me to do it for free.
• He wants to drop his LTC insurance because "it's too expensive" (1/3 of his "charities").
• He forgets to close his freezer door, the food inside has obviously gone bad (gray ham anybody?), but he won't throw it out because its too expensive (its not even that many pounds of food).
• He expects me to make various repairs for free.
• and a long list of similar examples.

In the last year I've helped him save over 20K in big ticket expenses by stepping in to get additional estimates (new HVAC, etc). But it seems such a waste of my time to help him save $10 so he can burn $1400 a month.

 

[45th Birthday]

We are in kind of a similar situation, without the inadvertent discovery and before needing to help financially. My wife's parents have a history of wasteful spending (hanging onto and actually buying more real estate even though not needed, paying for storage for junk that should be trashed, spending on clubs they do not use, etc.). I told her a number of years ago that we would not help them financially if they run out of money. Now only the MIL is alive and has about three years of funds left (24/7 in-home care is running through the money pretty quickly). She is in poor health, so probably won't last that long, but if she runs out I'm sticking to my guns.

 

[Souschef]

+1, 45th
My mom needed 24 hr care, and was paying out of her savings. She had some stock that was promised to my nieces, who are both well off.
I told my sis that I would help financially after the stocks are sold. I would not subsidize my nieces.

 

[rodi]

My best friend is in this situation - she has been supplementing her parents living expenses for years because they a) cashed out pensions a long time ago and spent the money, b) blew through any savings they once had, c) make craptastic spending choices. (The last one might be due to early stages of dementia.) They have very limited income and no savings. After more than 2 years of supplementing them with over $1k/month (which cut her discretionary spending to zero), she insisted on restructuring their life.... Moved them to a cheaper place, made them sell their car and replaced it with a low cost senior transport service, and took away all but one credit card. But her mom still impulse buys... It's a very frustrating situation for her. But at least with the restructuring she's not hemorrhaging as much money....

I feel lucky (?) that my parents died when they were still of sound mind and financially ok. My MIL has dementia - but is still financially ok. My best friend's parents aren't financially ok, nor of sound mind.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I found out that money we had been giving to elderly relatives to help pay for groceries and utilities was instead being passed along to a spendthrift adult child of theirs for optional home improvements. I have a few more stories but with the same outcomes. It is not easy to help relatives who are bad with money because even paying bills like utilities directly just frees up money else where for poor spending choices.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Rodi, your friend should put them on a waiting list for low income senior housing. Then they will only pay 30% of their income for rent.

 

[rodi]

Teacher Terry - thanks. They are sort of getting low income housing of a homemade kind. My BFF's husband bought a small house and charges them low rent. He's getting the mortgage covered and real estate appreciation over time, she gets out of spending so much money. When the parents no longer need the house, he'll rent it to college students, since they live in a college town. win-win-win.

 

[FIREd]

I have been helping my mom with her housing costs for a few years (her HOA fees had gone through the roof and she claimed that she could not afford them anymore, so I stepped in). But I later found out (through my sister, who lives nearby) that she was still squandering a lot of money on online shopping sprees. Mom recently approached me for a "raise" because she will soon discontinue her part-time activity due to age. But I declined. Now she will have to make difficult decisions (like moving to a more affordable place). It makes me sad, but I am not a pension fund. And she has to take responsibility for her mistakes (she always knew that she would have to stop working one day but she never planned for it).

 

[Fedup]

This is one of the many reasons why I want to delay SS till 70. If I’m not of sound mind, somebody is going to rip me off somehow, at least I have my SS to live on.

 

[Aerides]

c) make craptastic spending choices. (The last one might be due to early stages of dementia.)

I think this is an important point. The behavior of squandering needs to be examined as it may have another cause. Either dementia, or depression, or loneliness, anything. Especially if it looks like compulsive type of spending, or it's something out of character.

My parents planned well, and if anything, my sister and I try to talk them into blowing a bit more dough.

 

[Fedup]

My cousin’s husband who is 84, spent a lot of money he didn’t have on gambling. Probably borrowing or something. It’s how he coped with the loss of his wife, the love of his life. We only heard about it because his son and my nephew are best buddies from their college years.

He was never a gambler before her death. That’s why it’s a surprise.

 

[travelover]

Similar situation here, but to a lesser extent. Siblings contribute to MIL who insists on giving to charities and political causes (that some of us don't support) as well as giving to ne'er do well daughter. It is tolerable, but I resent it. MIL is now in early stages of dementia, so not sure if she is actually writing the checks.

 

[gauss]

Social safety nets (SSI / SNAP / Sec 8. housing / Medicaid Nursing LTC) exist for these situations when seniors exhaust their resources. We don't typically turn them into beggars on the street in this country.

It just may be a rude awaking for the "spend free" parents when they encounter their new normal.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can't live your parents life for them.

-gauss

 

[splitwdw]

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/10...t-kids-have-to-deal-with-parents-bad-choices/

I thought this was an interesting story. The article chronicles a couple's ethical dilemma after inadvertently finding out that parents who they have helped financially, are squandering some of their limited resources. I think the need to stage some sort of intervention outweighs the ethics of having obtained the information inadvertently. Thoughts?

Golden, It wasn't "inadvertent", the son in law used the passwords they copied to log into the in-laws checking account so it wasn't "accidental".
The article says that they've been giving the wife's parents money over the years for emergencies. Maybe once or twice is okay to give money but if it's been on going I would think they should have talked to the parents about their finances.

 

[Golden sunsets]

Golden, It wasn't "inadvertent", the son in law used the passwords they copied to log into the in-laws checking account so it wasn't "accidental".
The article says that they've been giving the wife's parents money over the years for emergencies. Maybe once or twice is okay to give money but if it's been on going I would think they should have talked to the parents about their finances.

I guess you're right. Snapping pics of the scraps of paper makes sense, but something "made them look". I guess they must have suspected. At any rate, Michelle Singletary seemed to want to bend over backwards to address the ethical point. I would not have been too troubled to look, although I would have preferred that it was the Daughter who looked, rather than the SIL.

My Mom began exhibiting signs of dementia a couple of years ago and I am an only child. I swooped in and took over everything. Her issue though was not gambling. She had become a target of a phony lottery winning scam. I detailed that situation on this forum at the time. She was getting multiple calls daily and I could not convince her to screen her calls, or just hang up. She would talk to the guy every time. There was this teeny tiny hope in her mind I'm sure that she had actually won these ever growing large sums of money. This went on for months. Fast forward 2 years later and my Mom now 93 and a half has full blown dementia, virtually no short term memory and is in an Assisted Living Facility. I was lucky in that she never followed the caller's instructions, which probably involved buying cash cards or some other scam to get her money.

In any event, the article that I posted reminded me of what happens when our parents age. Cat's cradle - the child becomes the parent.

 

[Fedup]

This is why I told my husband to never answer any phone call or door bells, once the habit is ingrained, he will not likely to do that when he gets older.

 

[audreyh1]

We had an experience with DHs stepdad who married DHs mom after . After DH’s mom dies, DHs stepdad pretty much blew through his not inconsiderable inheritance, quite a bit of it on crazy investment schemes. DH was furious because we’d continued to send him a monthly amount we had set up shortly after retiring, while DH’s mom was still alive, and before he received an inheritance from his Dad. DH felt like we’d just been enabling this poor money management. He never liked his stepdad, so that was part of it.

 

[splitwdw]

I guess you're right. Snapping pics of the scraps of paper makes sense, but something "made them look". I guess they must have suspected. At any rate, Michelle Singletary seemed to want to bend over backwards to address the ethical point. I would not have been too troubled to look, although I would have preferred that it was the Daughter who looked, rather than the SIL.

My Mom began exhibiting signs of dementia a couple of years ago and I am an only child. I swooped in and took over everything. Her issue though was not gambling. She had become a target of a phony lottery winning scam. I detailed that situation on this forum at the time. She was getting multiple calls daily and I could not convince her to screen her calls, or just hang up. She would talk to the guy every time. There was this teeny tiny hope in her mind I'm sure that she had actually won these ever growing large sums of money. This went on for months. Fast forward 2 years later and my Mom now 93 and a half has full blown dementia, virtually no short term memory and is in an Assisted Living Facility. I was lucky in that she never followed the caller's instructions, which probably involved buying cash cards or some other scam to get her money.

In any event, the article that I posted reminded me of what happens when our parents age. Cat's cradle - the child becomes the parent.

It's hard to tell from the article but it sounds more like the son in law was nosey rather than "something made them look". Sorry, my bs gauge goes off and we really can't tell without all the details.
I remember your post about your mom and felt bad for both of you. I can't imagine what it's like to deal with that. It makes me mad that people are out there trying to steal from older adults. My parents and grandparents don't have any of these issues so far

 

[ivinsfan]

This is not a parent issue but what obligation does one have to a friend of several decades who has gotten himself into a terrible money issue, mainly due to what I consider a long time shopping addictions to high clothes, furniture, and the like. He doesn't share with many people, but confided to us he only 1000 a month in SS coming in, spent his entire 401 in the last 2 and a half years and hasn't filed a tax return since 2015 because he didn't do withholding and doesn't have the money to pay his taxes. He's living off a couple credit cards that are almost maxed out and has an expensive paid off house where the taxes alone are 16K..he doesn't have money for that either.

He has long term diabetes issues, sleep issues and yes depression issues, so I don't even know where to begin. He hasn't asked for money and we wouldn't give him money but what practical things would you say or try to get him to the other side. He'll need to sell his house and get a small apartment, but he's basically a hoarder with really expensive taste. He doesn't have family to talk to so I don't know if we should use tough love or just say to him. "That's too bad, hope it works out", I know it won't work out for him without some intervention from someone.

 

[Golden sunsets]

It's hard to tell from the article but it sounds more like the son in law was nosey rather than "something made them look". Sorry, my bs gauge goes off and we really can't tell without all the details.
I remember your post about your mom and felt bad for both of you. I can't imagine what it's like to deal with that. It makes me mad that people are out there trying to steal from older adults. My parents and grandparents don't have any of these issues so far

Dealing with dementia is REALLY tough. I feel like I have already "lost" my Mom. Someday there will be a second loss. And I feel huge guilt. I can't even tell you why, but I do, nevertheless. It is hard to describe how sad these Assisted Living Facilities are. And the one that my Mom is in is a bit of a country club. The staff is good, but the lives of the residents are just - well - "not good". Sometimes I almost think my Mom is better off, not really understanding her surroundings.

Sorry - I digress. In the case of the family in the article, it may be noseyness. I know though that I sure became nosey when my Mom started to lose it.

 

[gauss]

This is not a parent issue but what obligation does one have to a friend of several decades who has gotten himself into a terrible money issue, mainly due to what I consider a long time shopping addictions to high clothes, furniture, and the like. He doesn't share with many people, but confided to us he only 1000 a month in SS coming in, spent his entire 401 in the last 2 and a half years and hasn't filed a tax return since 2015 because he didn't do withholding and doesn't have the money to pay his taxes. He's living off a couple credit cards that are almost maxed out and has an expensive paid off house where the taxes alone are 16K..he doesn't have money for that either.

He has long term diabetes issues, sleep issues and yes depression issues, so I don't even know where to begin. He hasn't asked for money and we wouldn't give him money but what practical things would you say or try to get him to the other side. He'll need to sell his house and get a small apartment, but he's basically a hoarder with really expensive taste. He doesn't have family to talk to so I don't know if we should use tough love or just say to him. "That's too bad, hope it works out", I know it won't work out for him without some intervention from someone.

Consultations with:
- a debt counselor / Dave Ramsey progran/ bankruptcy attorney ?
- a mental heath professional ?

Maybe he could go back to work?

Short of that , the social safety net programs that I listed earlier would likely be available to him if he has no assets and low income.

IRS will likely lien and levy the house if they are not paid what is owed.

-gauss

 

[Spock]

Dealing with dementia is REALLY tough. I feel like I have already "lost" my Mom. Someday there will be a second loss. And I feel huge guilt. I can't even tell you why, but I do, nevertheless. In the case of the family in the article, it may be noseyness. I know though that I sure became nosey when my Mom started to lose it.

At a certain point, the LACK of "noseyness" on the part of children into their parents lives is considered neglect.

in the specifics of this article, the children don't have to say anything to the parents except "no" when the parents ask for more money. At that point the conversation can start of "where did all the money go?"