Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
When are 2022/2020 IRMAA tables published?
Old 02-13-2021, 08:53 AM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 16,859
When are 2022/2020 IRMAA tables published?

I’ve just added consideration of IRMAA to my tax planning, but I can’t find the 2022 (2020 income) table! Am I just missing it? If not, it seems a little unfair that we don’t have the MAGI thresholds for 2020 income at least before year end to have a chance to keep income below the applicable threshold. What little I’ve read suggests the thresholds aren’t guaranteed to go up with inflation or even stay the same one year to the next - they could even go down?
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 30% bond funds / 20% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-13-2021, 09:03 AM   #2
Recycles dryer sheets
fosterscik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 355
According to https://thefinancebuff.com/medicare-...-brackets.html
Quote:
It’s too early to project the income brackets for 2022 coverage. As of December 2020, we only have three data points out of 12 to calculate the brackets for 2022. If inflation in the upcoming months is negative enough, the brackets can go down. I don’t think it’s likely but it’s always a possibility. If I must guess, the range for the first tier will be between $88,000/$176,000 (no change from 2021) and $90,000/$180,000, with the most likely scenario in the middle, i.e. $89,000/$178,000.
It seems the data used to set IRMAA levels are not yet available. I admit its a problem for planning but I'll use the 2021 data which is likely to be conservative.
That quote implies data won't be available until 9 months have elapsed in 2021.
__________________
"Success = talent + luck, while great success = a little more talent + a lot of luck"
Thinking, Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman
fosterscik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 09:28 AM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 29,467
I think you have to use current year levels until Nov/Dec when the 2022 levels are published.

They can’t be published farther ahead as they are dependent on inflation which can’t be forecast.

The thresholds might also depend on Medicare funding as each threshold is paying some fixed% of their Medicare costs, and those can’t be determined until late in the prior year.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 10:42 AM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 16,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
I think you have to use current year levels until Nov/Dec when the 2022 levels are published.

They can’t be published farther ahead as they are dependent on inflation which can’t be forecast.

The thresholds might also depend on Medicare funding as each threshold is paying some fixed% of their Medicare costs, and those can’t be determined until late in the prior year.
So it's as I thought, you can't plan to stay inside IRMAA thresholds as you won't know until the determining year is over - e.g. the 2022 IRMAA thresholds aren't published until Nov/Dec 2021, long after our 2020 MAGI is cast in stone. Seems unfair, but that's life. I'm just surprised as most tax tables, deductions etc. are published before the end of that year so you can at least plan.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 30% bond funds / 20% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 04:18 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 934
This has been a projection concern of mine as well. Until last week as I was getting some CFP advice which I try and do every 4 or 5 years. Anyway after our discussion itís like a lightbulb came on. He said JDARNELL itís only a marginal change of $XX. Your jumping over mouse hills. I was like Duh as I have an underlying challenge Iíd paying more that I have to. Yep itís a mental block.
JDARNELL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 05:06 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 29,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
So it's as I thought, you can't plan to stay inside IRMAA thresholds as you won't know until the determining year is over - e.g. the 2022 IRMAA thresholds aren't published until Nov/Dec 2021, long after our 2020 MAGI is cast in stone. Seems unfair, but that's life. I'm just surprised as most tax tables, deductions etc. are published before the end of that year so you can at least plan.
Fairness - well the problem is that they are based on income 2 years earlier due to the delays in tax filing. It’s not set up to use current year income numbers because they are unknown, and The IRS won’t know prior year income numbers either until taxes are filed during the current year, so they are stuck with a 2 year lookback.

Sounds like by mid November, IRMAA thresholds for the next year are announced.

Since you can’t know 2023 thresholds until Nov 2022, there is no way to know exactly what it will be during 2021 even though it’s the 2021 income that determines your 2023 IRMAA.

Well, you can plan based on the 2021 IRMAA thresholds, and then late in 2021, adjust if desired based on the newly announced 2022 thresholds. With cliffs like this you’ve gotta give yourself a little wiggle room anyway.

The year to year IRMAA threshold changes are going to be small, and unlikely to go down since a full year of deflation is so rare.

To correct an earlier post - the IRMAA brackets (what I’ve been calling thresholds) are only inflation indexed AFAIK. And it might be through Sept CPI of the prior year (annual Sept to Sept). It’s the amounts (base plus IRMAA) that are based on Medicare funding as to how much each bracket must cover including the base amount everyone pays.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 05:41 PM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: W Wash
Posts: 1,464
Here is a link discussing IRMMA setting mechanics as well 2022 values
https://thefinancebuff.com/medicare-...-brackets.html
nwsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 05:43 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 16,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
Here is a link discussing IRMMA setting mechanics as well 2022 values
https://thefinancebuff.com/medicare-...-brackets.html
Thanks. That was the only decent article I found too.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 30% bond funds / 20% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2021, 04:45 PM   #9
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Tomball
Posts: 3
These are excellent comments. I have been struggling with IRMAA since it was introduced during the Bush Administration. The difficulty, of course is predicting the levels two years ahead. I understand why this is so and have no problem with the mechanics. The penalty for ever going over each tier limit (until, if and when, you get to the top but few of us will face that happy situation) is truly drastic when considering the marginal effect on your reported earnings. I manage my IRA withdrawals to get as close to the tier limits as I dare but now that the tiers are being increased every year there is always going to be a miss where I get to declare less earnings than I might have wished. Still it is far better to underestimate than ever to overestimate. It will be tough if the tiers are ever reduced from one year to another forcing a miss.

There continue to be efforts in congress and by interested groups to make this even more onerous. The last time that a run was made on it we were saved by no one other than Barack Obama himself. The most dangerous folk in Washington are the technocrats. It behooves all of us to stay on top of this.
chasrome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2021, 05:11 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Car-Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Citizen of Texas
Posts: 6,047
Seems like this was recently discussed in another thread but this is a bit of a different twist... Anyway, a lot of unfairness with IRMMA IMO. But like so many things, they make the rules, we just have to live/play by them no matter how unfair they are!



In my case I am currently in the second tier from the top based on my 2019 return. However though tax planning, I was able to get my 2020 taxes under the bottom IRMMA tier. That of course will determine my 2022 medicare payments. I actually had to adjust some of my activities (read - lifestyle change) to get under the limits... I worked it all year, but my final "adjustment" was made in a tIRA withdrawal in late December. Cut it as close as I could... (made it by ~2k) Always concerned with them changing the rules/rates which makes it pretty hard to do a lot of planning.
__________________
Authority is given, respect is earned.
Car-Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2021, 06:08 AM   #11
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Reading, MA
Posts: 241
I'm in the middle of the IRMAA tiers and now make the decision in early December on how much to Roth convert based on the present tier levels along with TFB's projections.
I'm also assuming the tiers will never decrease in value even if inflation is negative for a year. This assumption is based on how SS COLA works and may not be correct for IRMAA...
TheWizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2021, 06:36 PM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,310
I did Roth conversions for the 2020 tax year for the first time and got dangerously close to triggering an IRMAA surcharge but ended up OK. Yesterday I was playing with my spreadsheet trying to figure out how to:
1. Do another Roth conversion in tax year 2021 so our two kids can each inherit a roughly equal Roth IRA while
2. Rebalancing out of stocks in taxable to get my AA back to where I want it without incurring more than 1 additional IRMAA tier.

Whatever I do will be a suboptimal compromise. Itís crazy that trying make sensible adjustments to oneís portfolio composition causes an increase in medical costs. But I suppose that falls under First World problems and Iím thankful nobodyís dropping bombs on or shooting rockets at us.
__________________
friar1610
friar1610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2021, 06:46 PM   #13
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Tomball
Posts: 3
Yet.
If you cans still say that in December, I will help celebrate.
chasrome is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Class of 2022 bUU Life after FIRE 154 Today 06:40 AM
New RMD tables published bada bing FIRE and Money 23 02-09-2021 04:45 PM
With this Market, most likely moving FIRE from 2020 to 2022 cyber888 Young Dreamers 90 12-05-2018 11:29 AM
I'm FREE on 3/1/2022 @ 55! Here's what I am doing... rmcelwee Hi, I am... 40 09-07-2018 09:17 PM
Target 2022 Retirement BGH1 Hi, I am... 23 03-15-2018 07:35 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:26 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.