When would you turn down $1 million?

[brett]

I would happily counter, and accept, $800K with three months of vacation each year. For a year or two.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Hmmm ... my apologies if I did not properly acknowledge or reflect the sentiments in your original post. That was not my intent. While surprised by your remarks, I accepted them at face value - your honest feelings. I tried to quote what I believed were your two main points (i.e., you would not work an additional day for $1M; you believe most people have a different point of view). The reason I focused on your post is because I made identical comments in other threads when discussing OMY syndrome. Specifically, I previously wrote that few people would give up $1M for 1 day of work. I found it interesting that you wrote the same thing, but from the opposite direction. I believe there is some level of compensation, different for each person, that will motivate most people to remain in the workforce or go back to work. It sounds like you agree, although you find this sad.

I don't think that most people really know what they want; by "most people" I don't mean you, but just people in general. Instead of looking within to try to figure this out, they pursue illusory goals that never seem to lead to the genuine satisfaction that they hope to achieve. To me, that is sad because they are wasting their brief time on this earth.

The fact that most people (again, not meaning you) never know how much is enough, and would constantly be willing to work for more, seems awful to me if this is a goal that has not come from within. So many work all their lives seeking approval first from their parents, then their peers, or others and never get around to trying to figure out how they themselves want to spend their moment on earth.But then if it doesn't bother them, who am I to say that it is wrong? Perhaps their satisfaction is in the journey. I just wish I felt assured that such people had spent the time to introspect and know themselves before setting off on an endless quest for enough money. Also I am just so glad that I am not in that endless ratrace right now. I so enjoy being the one to determine how I will spend my time each day, and I enjoy knowing that I have enough.

[Shawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelwanted Life is short, often too short. Personally, I have hit the mark and am ready to give up THAT job. Time and family become even more important once you have reached FI.

Yes, time with family can be important. But what happens when a family member needs $300K for medical or other health care expenses (e.g., quality nursing home care for one or more parents with little money). What happens when an elderly parent living on $1K/month SS is evicted from her low-cost apartment? What happens when a sibling is destitute? What happens when someone needs money for college. What happens when ...

Obviously, one cannot plan for everything, but all of these (and more) are realistic scenarios that many people face. Time isn't always greater than money.

[Shawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen Deal breaker for me. I love hiking and backpacking and those are things that are tough on an older body. I wanted to get out while I still had a few years left to motor myself up mountains with a backpack strapped to my back. Next month I will celebrate my 1 year retirement anniversary and my 57th birthday. I have probably hiked and backpacked more miles in the last year than I have in all the other years combined. It has been wonderful and I plan to hike/backpack even more miles this coming year! I would not go back to work for a year for $1 million dollars.

Good comments and insight. And applicable. A goal of mine is to hike the Pacific Crest Trail (Mexico to Canada). I would like to do it with a 65 year-old friend, and I know people who have done it in their 70's. While anything can happen - and a new ache seems to develop every day of my life - I am not as concerned about the physical inability. However, every year of work is one less year out on the trail.

[Shawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R I don't think that most people really know what they want; by "most people" I don't mean you, but just people in general. Instead of looking within to try to figure this out, they pursue illusory goals that never seem to lead to the genuine satisfaction that they hope to achieve. To me, that is sad because they are wasting their brief time on this earth.

Yes, this is true. A lot of people - probably everyone to some degree - pursue goals that they believe will make them happy but do not. Money goals are among them. This applies to young people and to not so young people.

But is working one more day or one more year necessarily a bad thing - an indication that someone is chasing an illusory money goal that will never provide satisfaction (rhetorical question)? Is it better to have enough or more than enough? I suppose it depends on the definition of enough, but for me, I am quite pleased about having much more than FireCalc says I should have. Money may not buy happiness, but it creates feelings of financial freedom, independence, and security. It eliminates financial worry. This is a step towards happiness. If nothing else, it's contentment.

None of this means I should work another year or even another day. But I ask myself - do I regret not retiring 4 years ago when I turned 50? No. While it's been a tough 4 years, I have a lot more financial security to show for it. And life has gone on. Good days, bad day, laughter, sadness. Of course, the real question is if I will regret not retiring at age 54 if I am still working at 55 or 60. Don't know.

[unclemick]

Hmmm - The 'job' would have to 'grab my passion.' I did thirty years in the space program give or take and I'd like to think it just wasn't for the money.

Although at times there were periods of suckiness and times I was glad for what they paid me, I am not sure I would have switched jobs for mere money.

heh heh heh - hindsight and twenty years of ER makes me more idealistic. NOW - talk to me about something with the B word as in billion/s.

[clifp]

One more data point, which I have mostly posted before.

Back in early 2000,I was at the end of 1 year leave of absence. I could have gone back to work and earn 1.2 million over 3 year and possible more if the stock price went up. After taxes that would have increase my net worth by about 20%.

As it turned out the the stock crater along with almost all other tech stock, so my actually compensation would have less than 1/2 that.

I think if I could have increased my net worth by 50% for working 3 years I would have gone back to worth.

When making these decision I think it is really important factor in all financial info especially taxes.
So if you are making $1 million a year and your portfolio is $5 million. After tax you probably are only making an additional $500K $600K if you live in very low tax state.

Assume your portfolio earns 5% and spending is $150K. If you were retired your net worth would $5.1 million, if you continue working it is a $5.6 or roughly a 10% growth. Is 10% worth an extra year of your life perhaps.

[scrabbler1]

I remember when I was negotiating my first part-time work deal back in 2001 how my goal was to work less and earn less money. I was becoming depressed from the commute which had grown worse after my company initially relocated from lower Manhattan to Jersey City, New Jersey (before the 9/11 attacks). If my company had offered me a raise to keep working full-time, I would have easily declined. How much of a raise would it have taken to get me to keep working full-time? It would have taken a really big one, and I would not have worked FT for very long, just enough until I could fully ER.

And just to show that my desire to work less and earn less was no fluke, in 2007 I did it again, asking to have my weekly hours worked reduced. It would have taken a really big raise to keep me working even at my old PT schedule. And finally, when I made the ultimate work reduction (ER) in 2008, I told the HR flunkie in my exit interview that to get me to stay (not that anyone was making any offers) I would have needed to come to the office less often than even my once-a-week telecommute deal had in 2001-2003 (and regained group health eligibility). I did not desire a raise.

[heeyy_joe]

The Monty Hall Problem - Explained - YouTube

[calmloki]

Someone posted this blog link a few days ago: The Retirement Cafe: The Chicken and the Pig

Well spoken, and to quote him, "There's a fable about a chicken, a pig and a plate of ham and eggs. The chicken is involved but the pig is committed". It's much easier to commit as one's life grows shorter. If a year is likely to be 5% of your life it's easier to decide if one has enough than if a year is 2% of your expected life.

I think I'd pass on working for someone else for a million, but seem to enjoy "deals" too much to give them up - not driven to hunt for deals, but as they present themselves I sure enjoy letting our money work a bit harder.

[H2ODude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R I don't think that most people really know what they want; by "most people" I don't mean you, but just people in general. Instead of looking within to try to figure this out, they pursue illusory goals that never seem to lead to the genuine satisfaction that they hope to achieve. To me, that is sad because they are wasting their brief time on this earth. The fact that most people (again, not meaning you) never know how much is enough, and would constantly be willing to work for more, seems awful to me if this is a goal that has not come from within. So many work all their lives seeking approval first from their parents, then their peers, or others and never get around to trying to figure out how they themselves want to spend their moment on earth.But then if it doesn't bother them, who am I to say that it is wrong? Perhaps their satisfaction is in the journey. I just wish I felt assured that such people had spent the time to introspect and know themselves before setting off on an endless quest for enough money. Also I am just so glad that I am not in that endless ratrace right now. I so enjoy being the one to determine how I will spend my time each day, and I enjoy knowing that I have enough.

Well written; I found this rather profound. I have no regrets having worked as long as I did (til 60) but could have bailed earlier. DW and I have struggled last 3 years continuing to care for her mother which has severely limited our options. We've made some concrete decisions about placing her in next month or two, which places us in a new era of freedom. So we are finally struggling with how to finally spend our bucks; travel, move, etc. We've been actually spending less than 2% of assets, so OMY clearly not necessary.

Would I go back for a day for $1mm? Sure! It wouldn't interfere with any conceivable plans and if nothing else it'd be fun to give it all to charity (in all honesty I can't say I would though!). In the end I'm sure it would reinforce my assessment that I would not go back to work if you put a gun to my head. Of course, that assumes I'd actually have to be there for more than a day.

This thread, like many, reminds me of a good financial manager friend counseling my father (at ~65) from whom I inherited a strong dose of financial conservatism. He asked my father if he'd figured a way to take his money with him (when he died). I don't think my father thought it funny!

[Spanky]

Shawn is probably right that most people, especially those who are young and energetic, would accept a $1 million per year position as they feel additional money would provide additional security or financial freedom. Many people feel financially insecure regardless of the amount of money that they have because they are in constant fear that they may lose it. Walking away from a lucrative job, I think, is very difficult, especially the job is enjoyable and not too demanding. If the job is toxic, that's another story, however.

If I have $4M in financial assets, I still would consider working for a year or two if they pay me $1M per year for what I do now but not for some high stress and time demanding job in finance (or Wall Street).

[martyb]

My 2 pensions and our combined 401k/TSP would probably require a stash of just a hair under 2 million to spin off the equivalent at 4% withdrawal, so with that in mind, under the same circumstances, I'd work one additional year for the additional $1 million. No more, though.

[LoneAspen]

Once I leave the working world, I wouldn't go back for anything less than what I've always called "crazy stupid" money. Meaning, the company would be crazy and stupid for offering it, and I'd be crazy and stupid for turning it down.

After I've left, and am free, the value of my time is going to shoot WAY up. To the point if somebody offered me $1m after-tax to go back to work for a year, I don't think I'd do it. It's not enough.

I think it would take $5m after-tax a year for me to sell my soul for another year sitting in a cube. Anything less, I wouldn't even consider it. I'd keep on enjoying my free time.

[Cobra9777]

I originally planned to retire at 55. At that age, there was a substantial bump in DB pension value, and I would have retained all restricted stock and unvested stock options. Instead, I retired at 52 and gave up all of the above, plus salary and bonus, totaling around $1.4M (possibly more depending on stock price).

Not exactly the same scenario as the OP, but my various bosses and coworkers all thought I was nuts for not working 3 more years. For me, it was pretty simple... once it was clear the numbers worked for the lifestyle I desired, that extra money meant nothing. Literally, zero value. Like ice to an Eskimo.

Life is short and highly unpredictable. So for me, once FI is achieved, any amount of time has greater value than any amount of money. Even $1M for a year.

[Derslickmeister]

I'm having a very hard time believing most of these replies declining this offer. Either you guys are very good liars or ER is really as good as I hope it to be, please tell me you are not lying

[REWahoo]

No lie. I would not trade a year of my freedom for $550,000 (~$1,500/day) which is roughly what you'd end up with after taxes. I thought I had "enough" when I retired at age 58, and at age 67 it appears as though I do.

I've already won. No reason to run up the score, especially since I no longer have any interest at all in playing the game.

[Derslickmeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo No lie. I would not trade a year of my freedom for $550,000 (~$1,500/day) which is roughly what you'd end up with after taxes. I thought I had "enough" when I retired at age 58, and at age 67 it appears as though I do. I've already won. No reason to run up the score, especially since I no longer have any interest at all in playing the game.

Plus you are in the Hill Country, life must be good indeed.

[robnplunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derslickmeister I'm having a very hard time believing most of these replies declining this offer. Either you guys are very good liars or ER is really as good as I hope it to be, please tell me you are not lying

I am a bit surprised, too. Most ER'd folks are saying no way. OMYer like me is saying take the money for X more years. But the OP is only in his early 30s. Doesn't he have other things he can "work" on before calling it quits. All his RE peers will be his father's age .

[scrabbler1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo I've already won. No reason to run up the score, especially since I no longer have any interest at all in playing the game.

Very nice analogy!