Who changed it to 20%

[Midpack]

Wow, 13 pages of splitting hairs between 15-20% on a restaurant bill? That's $5 on a $100 dinner. Does it really make a difference if you go out once or twice a week and leave that extra five bucks to a server who unlike us is not early retired and has to work to make ends meet? Obviously if you spend $$$ on your dining activities then you are in a different tax bracket but in that case you shouldn't even pay attention to how high the tip is.

Btw. I noticed that nobody mentioned Japan. There's no such thing as tipping there. Anywhere and under no circumstances. The price you see is the price you pay. So it's entirely possible to remove tipping from the service industry.

It is, but it would include legislation most likely. The industry alone can’t change it in the US. Several restaurant owners in several cities/states have implemented no tip policies, most were/are forced to restore pre tip pricing and tipping. Patrons who balk at tipping don’t change anything, they just punish servers unfairly.

 

[jasg]

I have become angry about this.
15% of pre tax is my default.
If you travel to Western Europe, then tip+sales tax in the USA is really annoying.

I started 20% when I realized two things
1 - European servers are paid something that approaches a living wage.
2 - US minimum wage for servers is not even close to that, and dropping in real terms.

 

[GenXguy]

And, why should a tip be based on the cost of the meal?

It doesn't have to be. If you choose to make a standard 15% tip or a 20% tip for extra good service as some have mentioned, that's your choice. I just tip what I think it fair based on the service/effort of the waitress or waiter, which may be more or less than people using the percentage method.

There were some comments about tipping wages being $2/hr. Well, that depends where you live. Where I live, tipping minimum wage was increased to about $12/hr along with higher wages for other minimum wage jobs, where the market doesn't justify the increase, and you can see it resulting in higher prices in restaurants. I've really cut back on how much I dine out as a result. And another restaurant just closed since the increase, so their waitresses were put out of work.

 

[Rambler]

I usually do 20% then round the total bill down.... it the bill is $24.64, 20% would be $4.92 but I'll tip $4.36 so the total bill is $29.00. While it looks like that is "only" a 17.7% tip it is really more since the $24.64 includes rooms and meals tax so the meals alone is more like $23 so the tip is really 18.9%.

I prefer that the slip I sign be even dollars.... sometimes the server gets a bit more and sometimes a bit less.

Same here. Total is in even dollars. Always. Unless my service was extremely good, or extremely poor, my tips range between 16.5-18%. If I walk away delighted and amazed, it can go as high as 22-23%, but that is rare. If I have to ask for something that should be automatic (no ketchup with the fries, no Tabasco for my pizza or pasta) it will be more like 15% unless the server redeems themself. Multiple errors and omissions result in a much poorer tip. Yes, I have worked for tips before. The key word is “worked”. A lot of folks these days think they can have an attitude or not do the work, and get a generous tip. I’m not inclined to promote such foolishness.

 

[Old Microbiologist]

We live in Europe where all staff at restaurants are salaried employees with benefits.Tipping is not expected and is generally only done by foreign visitors such as Americans. BUt, because Americans tip at stupid rates there is now an expectation of tips which is becoming a problem. In the US a phenomena has arisen which has shifted the burden of paying wait staff to the customer directly. These personnel have zero benefits and are charged a full meal price out of their wages which are usually at the lowest a state requires. This meal charge usually negates the hourly wage so all they earn are tips. How has this happened and why do we put up with this? Who do the employees work for, the customer or the restaurant? Really, it is shameful how this has come about.

I recall I had a neighbor when we lived in rural DC who was a waiter at an upscale steak place and he earned $85k in 1999 from tips. That is equally insane. America looks like a crazy place to the rest of the world.

 

[vdesalvo]

Default 20% Tip

If you like giving your money away, do so, it’s your money. If I get fair service it’s 10%, better than average it’s 15%, and great service it’s 20%. Bad service you get zip. The type of service they provide to me makes a different.

 

[Midpack]

We live in Europe where all staff at restaurants are salaried employees with benefits.Tipping is not expected and is generally only done by foreign visitors such as Americans. BUt, because Americans tip at stupid rates there is now an expectation of tips which is becoming a problem. In the US a phenomena has arisen which has shifted the burden of paying wait staff to the customer directly. These personnel have zero benefits and are charged a full meal price out of their wages which are usually at the lowest a state requires. This meal charge usually negates the hourly wage so all they earn are tips. How has this happened and why do we put up with this? Who do the employees work for, the customer or the restaurant? Really, it is shameful how this has come about.

I recall I had a neighbor when we lived in rural DC who was a waiter at an upscale steak place and he earned $85k in 1999 from tips. That is equally insane. America looks like a crazy place to the rest of the world.

Lots of inaccuracies in your post. One of many on this thread. Using exceptions and conjecture undermines your POV.

Tipping in the US was brought from Europe well over 150 years ago, it’s not some new development as your post suggests.

And prices in restaurants in Europe and any other country, including a few no tip US restaurants, are significantly higher to cover the higher labor costs of servers. The ”burden of paying servers” is always borne by the customer, directly in no tip restaurants, indirectly in most US restaurants. Eliminating tipping in the US will invariably increase prices accordingly, as they should. You’re paying servers tips one way or another.

And I doubt there are many restaurants that charge servers menu prices for meals. Many offer a discount, or offer a modest nightly dinner for free. Servers don’t have to eat at the restaurant they work at obviously.

While there are definitely servers in upscale restaurants making $85K, some even 6 figures, that’s not typical by any means. The average wages for US restaurant full time servers is less than $40K/yr, links provided earlier. Lots of sources online, here’s one that shows the average wage at $11.62/hr. That would be less than $25K/yr for 40 hour weeks - servers usually work more or less than that. https://www.indeed.com/career/server/salaries

And while most servers don’t have full benefits, there are many professions in the US that don’t provide full benefits. Not saying it’s fair/unfair, but it’s by no means unique to restaurant employees.

Tipping doesn’t bother me at all. But if the practice changes in the US that’s fine too. But it won’t happen without legislation or a monumental grassroots action (highly unlikely IMO). If you ask servers, you’ll find some/many like the current tipping system - they’d seek other employment if they didn’t.

Tipping actually originated in the aristocratic homes of feudal Europe…. When tips came to the United States in the late 1850s, 1860s, there was a massive anti-tipping movement. It was actually considered to be undemocratic, un-American…. Well that movement, which came right around the time of the emancipation of the slaves, was squashed by the restaurant industry, which argued that they should have the right to hire newly freed slaves and not pay them anything as valueless people and essentially let them live on customer tips. And so many of the first tipped workers in the United States were former slaves…. And this idea was codified into the first minimum wage law that passed in 1938 as part of the New Deal…. We went from a zero-dollar minimum wage in 1938 to a whopping $2.13 an hour, which is the current federal minimum wage for tipped workers in the U.S.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

America looks like a crazy place to the rest of the world.

 

[MichaelB]

I don't mind giving a little more for good service, but I have not yet heard anyone give a rational justification for raising the percentage.

Here is some data that might help address your question.

First, the minimum wage for tipped employees is lower than the minimum wage for employees that don’t receive tips, and the gratuity is intended to compensate for that. This began in 1966.

The difference between the two minimum wages has been increasing since 1988. In other words, since 1988, more tip (after inflation) is needed just to meet the minimum wage.

The median wage for waiters and waitresses is $10.74, including tips, and even at the 90% income percentile they make $19.33. This is just slightly above the median of all wages at $18.58. The top performers in this profession are not getting rich.

The 20% number in the OP is more of a discussion point than a current or expected average. In fact, the difference between tipped and non-tipped minimum wages differs around the country, so típ income should also vary.

Restaurants are the arbiters here. They clearly set prices and staffing so that the expected average tip adequately compensates the wait staff.

There is no source that shows the data for what is the average gratuity in the US. It seems to be around 16% in full service restaurants, based on reports by sources such as Zagat.

The BLS statistics on tipped employees https://www.bls.gov/oes/2017/may/oes353031.htm

A comprehensive look at this form of compensation from the Economic Policy Imstitute https://www.epi.org/publication/waiting-for-change-tipped-minimum-wage/

 

[Aerides]

One that that keeps getting bandied about is the hourly rate. Now, I know some states are different so I won't quibble over the $2 or $10 the restaurant pays, but the tips.

If you work as an evening shift server, you're starting at 3 or 4, and going to 11. So on a Wednesday, if not the hottest place in town, you're on your feet for 8 hours but only really busily serving to capacity from 6-9, give or take. The rest of that time?

3-5: polishing silverware, learning the specials, folding napkins, prepping drink stations, back of the house stuff
5-6: slow early tables, early birder types, not big checks
6-9: busy, run off your feet if you're lucky
9-11: stragglers, late dinners, drinkers, some of the servers get sent home early on week nights. You're left cleaning the coffee makers, maybe try to grab a bite to eat yourself if you can

No one is making 30-40 per hour for 8 hours, 5 days a week, except maybe in the most prestigious high end fancy places, where you need 10 years experience to get an interview (and 2 months for a reservation).

The smart money is working breakfast shifts in tourist locations and hotels. small checks but high turnover.

I like to tip well, and overtip, and I always will. 30 years later I remember the bad tables, the stiffers, and the ones who were nice and made it worthwhile. And that's most important. No matter how much you tip, if you're pleasant and polite vs. snotty and condescending, you'll have a better time and so will your server.

 

[Rianne]

3-5: polishing silverware, learning the specials, folding napkins, prepping drink stations, back of the house stuff
5-6: slow early tables, early birder types, not big checks
6-9: busy, run off your feet if you're lucky
9-11: stragglers, late dinners, drinkers, some of the servers get sent home early on week nights. You're left cleaning the coffee makers, maybe try to grab a bite to eat yourself if you can

No one is making 30-40 per hour for 8 hours, 5 days a week, except maybe in the most prestigious high end fancy places, where you need 10 years experience to get an interview (and 2 months for a reservation).

The smart money is working breakfast shifts in tourist locations and hotels. small checks but high turnover.

I like to tip well, and overtip, and I always will. 30 years later I remember the bad tables, the stiffers, and the ones who were nice and made it worthwhile. And that's most important. No matter how much you tip, if you're pleasant and polite vs. snotty and condescending, you'll have a better time and so will your server.

+1 I recall in my wait staff days a table of 6, before dinner drinks, entree, dessert, after dinner drinks, coffee. I got $6...$1 per person. I had a back wait (bus person). This was a very nice restaurant/hotel. Ruined my week. I also had classes and homework (in college). That followed me through most days for awhile. I kept reliving the experience, what did i say or do wrong? Never happened before and that table took up most of my time.

 

[CardsFan]

We went out with 2 other couples last night. I tipped $20 on a $75 bill (so about 27%).

Why, you might ask?

We ordered off the early bird menu, right at the time the menu changed (6pm). Plus, we occupied a table for close to 2 hours, but no one tried to rush us out, even though the place was packed and people were waiting for tables. They continued to pour water and check on us, even though we had paid the bills 20 minutes earlier.

 

[Gumby]

Thank you for doing that. Being aware of the impact of your actions on other people will never be wrong.

 

[davebarnes]

And prices in restaurants in Europe...are significantly higher to cover the higher labor costs of servers.

Not true based upon my dining experiences in Portugal, España, Italia, Slovenija, and Österreich.
For example:
1. Wine prices are lower in these countries. I can buy a decent bottle for €15-22.
In USD this is $16.50-24.20. There are no restaurants in my city selling wine for $25. The entry price has crept up to $30 + sales tax (approx 8%) or $32.40.
2. You can buy a large pizza for 2 people for €11 in Bologna (full service restaurant with table linens). OK, that is $14.40 USD. The cheapest pizza in my part of Denver is over $20 including tax.

We have found that it costs less to dine out in Europe than the USA.

 

[Sunset]

....

Now conversly, we have a Chinese take out with very basic eat in service, just simple tables. Their food is outstanding, better than a lot of full service establishments, and they do not even have a tip jar. The place is always packed, and they are voted eatery of the year, year after year. That must say something. I usually leave a modest tip ~10%, because they are great, and I want to support their business.

Last week we were in your neighborhood, got to experience the 5:00 pm traffic due to poor planning .

Can you tell the name of the Chinese take out, so next year on our yearly trip we can hit it up for a quick lunch ?

 

[Sunset]

...

Quote:
Tipping actually originated in the aristocratic homes of feudal Europe…. When tips came to the United States in the late 1850s, 1860s, there was a massive anti-tipping movement. It was actually considered to be undemocratic, un-American…. Well that movement, which came right around the time of the emancipation of the slaves, was squashed by the restaurant industry, which argued that they should have the right to hire newly freed slaves and not pay them anything as valueless people and essentially let them live on customer tips. And so many of the first tipped workers in the United States were former slaves…. And this idea was codified into the first minimum wage law that passed in 1938 as part of the New Deal…. We went from a zero-dollar minimum wage in 1938 to a whopping $2.13 an hour, which is the current federal minimum wage for tipped workers in the U.S.

.

Wow.... if this is true, then essentially restaurants have basically continued as much slavery as they could, and made us all unwitting complicit participants.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Last week we were in your neighborhood, got to experience the 5:00 pm traffic due to poor planning .

Can you tell the name of the Chinese take out, so next year on our yearly trip we can hit it up for a quick lunch ?

Green Tea, Cobblestone Village.

 

[Music Lover]

You know who never demands the end of tipping? Servers.

That's because they know they have it good and if it truly was bad for them then they'd demand a higher wage instead of tips. But not even a small minority of servers want tips to end.

 

[MichaelB]

You know who never demands the end of tipping? Servers.

That's because they know they have it good and if it truly was bad for them then they'd demand a higher wage instead of tips. But not even a small minority of servers want tips to end.

Some points from the EPI brief (linked earlier) on tipped workers

Tipped workers have a median wage (including tips) of $10.22, compared with $16.48 for all workers.

While the poverty rate of non-tipped workers is 6.5 percent, tipped workers have a poverty rate of 12.8 percent.

Due to their low wages and higher poverty levels, about 46.0 percent of tipped workers and their families rely on public benefits, compared with 35.5 percent of non-tipped workers and their families.

Job quality, as measured by access to benefits, is far worse for tipped workers. Workers in the accommodation and food service industry—an industry with a high concentration of tipped workers—are offered paid leave (sick, holiday, and vacation leave), health insurance, and retirement benefits at rates far below those of private-sector workers overall.

I suspect, given the choice, most would opt for a fixed wage and a few benefits.

 

[Music Lover]

I wonder how many servers actually declare 100% of their tips as income?

 

[RobbieB]

If you like giving your money away, do so, it’s your money.

I enjoy giving my money away, it makes people happy.

 

[Midpack]

Not true based upon my dining experiences in Portugal, España, Italia, Slovenija, and Österreich.
For example:
1. Wine prices are lower in these countries. I can buy a decent bottle for €15-22.
In USD this is $16.50-24.20. There are no restaurants in my city selling wine for $25. The entry price has crept up to $30 + sales tax (approx 8%) or $32.40.
2. You can buy a large pizza for 2 people for €11 in Bologna (full service restaurant with table linens). OK, that is $14.40 USD. The cheapest pizza in my part of Denver is over $20 including tax.

We have found that it costs less to dine out in Europe than the USA.

Wine is probably competitive if not cheaper in Europe, I’ll give you that.

But if you think $20 is a representative low price for pizza in the US, you need to cast your net a lot wider. There are hundreds/thousands of pizzas much less expensive here.

And drawing conclusions based on wine and pizza alone isn’t representative.

At any rate, if through legislation server hourly wages increase to eliminate tipping in the US, restaurant prices will increase accordingly.

 

[travelover]

I enjoy giving my money away, it makes people happy.

I've PM'd you my address. A check is fine.

 

[RobbieB]

Bring me some Ramen and you will get paid.

No ramen, no dough.

 

[JJpop]

It will be 25 pct very soon. I think the system is ridiculous. The more expensive the restaurant,the more you earn. You may work much harder at the less expensive restaurant and earn a lot less money. Stupid system.