Why not paper-file taxes?

[GrayHare]

Don't you have to file by mail anyway if you owe them money? I never get a refund. I always end up mailing them a small check, so when TT prints out the forms, I send it all in one envelope.

Technically all you need do is pay the tax you owe, which means you need not file any forms at all.

 

[friar1610]

So did I before they began accepting e-filed returns. And I still print and mail the state return - I'm sure not gonna pay to efile!

That annoys the hell out of me, too. So I exile Fed and paper file State. (MA)

 

[rodi]

I use turbo tax to calculate my taxes. I also review the forms (in form view) to make sure I understand them.

If I am owed a refund, I e-file my return for free as soon as I've done my taxes.

If I owe... I mail it in with a check, about 1 week before the due date.... no need to give the money sooner.

For state, regardless of owing or not, I file a paper return. California and turbo tax charge for e-filing. I'm cheap. If I am owed a refund, I mail it in early, if I owe, I mail it closer to the due-day.

I get my money's worth out of TT, since I also do my MIL's taxes (DH is her legal guardian.) We have to paper file that return because of the guardianship.

 

[Luck_Club]

OK.. Maybe it is outdated at this point, but hear goes my rational. My first accountant TOLD me to paper file. This was back in the mid 90's and e-file was just starting and he said "Why make it easy for them to audit you? If you e-file the software on their server does all the checking automatically. If you file on paper, they at least have to enter the data either by hand or scanning. If they are going to audit me I want it to be as difficult as possible."

Been fighting subsequent accountants for better part of 15 years to file on paper. Every year I need to sign affidavits etc.

At this point it is probably skewing more to an audit by not e-filing.

As far as turbo tax...I'm not paying the accountant to fill out the forms, I'm paying him to insure against audits. With businesses and rental real estate, short money in my opinion. 10+ years filing two businesses and rental properties and never an audit.

 

[Lakedog]

I use the fillable forms and mail them. Since I have a spreadsheet setup to know my tax situation throughout the year, it is relatively easy to complete the forms (with my spreadsheet info serving as a check). Maybe lots of folks have very complicated returns, but I just don't see where there is much time involved preparing a paper tax return. Electronic filing requires time to either answer the software questions or fill out the forms so not sure there is really much time savings there.

I usually pay only enough taxes throughout the year so that I owe a small amount. For the few times I have had a small refund, the direct deposit has shown up in my account within a couple of weeks so no real delay by sending paper returns (at least in my experience to this point).

 

[audreyh1]

Our tax return is huge. We don't answer a lot of questions - it's quick as most of the flow matches the prior year. A huge time saving is downloading transactions into the software. And presto, 50-100 pages of forms and worksheets are generated. We spend some time reviewing those. I can't imagine filling out all those forms by hand and doing the calculations with a calculator. For estimating taxes I use spreadsheets (can't do that by hand either, and need my Quicken reports too) and those have already grown complex, but they serve as a good check against the software.

 

[GTFan]

When push comes to shove I'm sure I'll just suck it up and ante up. But I definitely won't pay to efile if I owe to Uncle Sam or my state.

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...x-filing-for-2016-including-e-file-84470.html

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I use software to prepare my taxes, but I always print them out and mail them in.

Me Too. Makes them work for their Money

 

[Dawg52]

I use software to prepare my taxes, but I always print them out and mail them in.

Same here. Tax software is just an easier and more accurate way to do taxes. Plus this year Fidelity gave me the software so it's a no brainer.

 

[pb4uski]

Technically all you need do is pay the tax you owe, which means you need not file any forms at all.

I don't think so... they assess "failure to file" penalties.

Here are eight important points about the two different penalties you may face if you file or pay late.

1. If you do not file by the deadline, you might face a failure-to-file penalty. If you do not pay by the due date, you could face a failure-to-pay penalty.
   
2. The failure-to-file penalty is generally more than the failure-to-pay penalty. So if you cannot pay all the taxes you owe, you should still file your tax return on time and pay as much as you can, then explore other payment options. The IRS will work with you.
   
3. The penalty for filing late is usually 5 percent of the unpaid taxes for each month or part of a month that a return is late. This penalty will not exceed 25 percent of your unpaid taxes.
   
4. If you file your return more than 60 days after the due date or extended due date, the minimum penalty is the smaller of $135 or 100 percent of the unpaid tax.
   
5. If you do not pay your taxes by the due date, you will generally have to pay a failure-to-pay penalty of ½ of 1 percent of your unpaid taxes for each month or part of a month after the due date that the taxes are not paid. This penalty can be as much as 25 percent of your unpaid taxes.
   
6. If you request an extension of time to file by the tax deadline and you paid at least 90 percent of your actual tax liability by the original due date, you will not face a failure-to-pay penalty if the remaining balance is paid by the extended due date.
   
7. If both the failure-to-file penalty and the failure-to-pay penalty apply in any month, the 5 percent failure-to-file penalty is reduced by the failure-to-pay penalty. However, if you file your return more than 60 days after the due date or extended due date, the minimum penalty is the smaller of $135 or 100 percent of the unpaid tax.
   
8. You will not have to pay a failure-to-file or failure-to-pay penalty if you can show that you failed to file or pay on time because of reasonable cause and not because of willful neglect.

 

[sakowitzm]

Help? I use TT but have always filed by mail. I'd like to e-file, and this thread points me in the right direction - irs.gov and then... I see this page: https://www.irs.gov/uac/efile-with-commercial-software
but it doesn't explicitly say how to actually DO the filing.

So let's say I've used TT and I'm all set and ready to send it in, electronically. Can someone point me to the exact web page from which (I assume) I would upload my resulting TT file?

TIA.

 

[jazz4cash]

Help? I use TT but have always filed by mail. I'd like to e-file, and this thread points me in the right direction - irs.gov and then... I see this page: https://www.irs.gov/uac/efile-with-commercial-software
but it doesn't explicitly say how to actually DO the filing.

So let's say I've used TT and I'm all set and ready to send it in, electronically. Can someone point me to the exact web page from which (I assume) I would upload my resulting TT file?

TIA.

When you get to the end, TT will ask if you want to efile or print the forms for mailing and you just follow the directions. I believe the efile goes through TT, not directly to the IRS.

 

[Gotadimple]

When you get to the end, TT will ask if you want to efile or print the forms for mailing and you just follow the directions. I believe the efile goes through TT, not directly to the IRS.

That's correct for every tax prep program, whether you download software or enter your taxes at their secure website.

It's painless, really!

- Rita

 

[PhrugalPhan]

Hasn't the IRS been hacked a few times in the past years and the information they got was always for people that e-filed? I haven't heard of paper filers having any issues (though maybe I'm wrong?).

Its the reason I use for paper filing. And I find it really easy. I have setup a spreadsheet with all the equations needed to give optimal results for different scenarios. I just fill in the 1099 data and I get my computed answer. Then I just put it down on paper and I'm done. No problems.

 

[mystang52]

OP here. I've been filling in my Turbo Tax (use it for free option, pending completion) and may have to paper file anyway. I made a small amount of 1099 income last year, and have a car mileage deduction for that. I don't know, yet, if I have no choice but it appears I may have to upgrade beyond Deluxe to claim that mileage deduction. That mileage deduction is worth about $70 net....and the upgrade costs $69.
I've had this 1099 income in the past and never had to upgrade beyond Deluxe. But if true it sticks in my craw that for all intents and purposes I can't use this legitimate deduction via Turbo Tax.

 

[cathy63]

OP here. I've been filling in my Turbo Tax (use it for free option, pending completion) and may have to paper file anyway. I made a small amount of 1099 income last year, and have a car mileage deduction for that. I don't know, yet, if I have no choice but it appears I may have to upgrade beyond Deluxe to claim that mileage deduction. That mileage deduction is worth about $70 net....and the upgrade costs $69.
I've had this 1099 income in the past and never had to upgrade beyond Deluxe. But if true it sticks in my craw that for all intents and purposes I can't use this legitimate deduction via Turbo Tax.

Deluxe still has schedule C. There should be a section in the interview for unreimbursed employment expenses; or if you have the installed version on your computer, you can go into forms mode and edit it directly.

 

[Sunset]

+1

The list is almost endless...

How do I start a new thread "Should I sell my kidney to pay for a vacation?"

 

[Walt34]

How do I start a new thread "Should I sell my kidney to pay for a vacation?"

My ex would have said "Yes!" Seriously.

 

[audreyh1]

Hasn't the IRS been hacked a few times in the past years and the information they got was always for people that e-filed? I haven't heard of paper filers having any issues (though maybe I'm wrong?).

Its the reason I use for paper filing. And I find it really easy. I have setup a spreadsheet with all the equations needed to give optimal results for different scenarios. I just fill in the 1099 data and I get my computed answer. Then I just put it down on paper and I'm done. No problems.

Yes, you are wrong. The access to folks accounts weren't because they efiled. There were numerous IRS security holes unrelated to efile, and some were due to swiped W2s from phishing corporate HR of from phishing the victim directly.

The fraudsters used eFile, but it didn't matter whether the victim had eFiled or not.

 

[jazz4cash]

Yes, you are wrong. The access to folks accounts weren't because they efiled. There were numerous security holes unrelated to efile, but some were due to swiped W2s from phishing corporate HR.



The fraudsters used eFile, but it didn't matter whether the victim had eFiled or not.

I agree. A return was efiled on our tax ID even though we always mail a paper return (prepared with Taxcut) to IRS. The breech/hack occurred elsewhere and was used to file a fake return.

 

[GrayHare]

I don't think so... they assess "failure to file" penalties.

AFAIK, the penalty for failure to file is a % of the tax due, so if you have indeed timely paid all taxes the IRS thinks you owe, the penalty will be $0. I know someone who has annually paid all tax due but has not filed since the '90s. This person gets letters from the IRS saying they want to send a refund but can't without a return being filed.

 

[RobbieB]

Yeah, they want the dough more than anything else.

 

[pb4uski]

Technically all you need do is pay the tax you owe, which means you need not file any forms at all.

I don't think so... they assess "failure to file" penalties.

AFAIK, the penalty for failure to file is a % of the tax due, so if you have indeed timely paid all taxes the IRS thinks you owe, the penalty will be $0. I know someone who has annually paid all tax due but has not filed since the '90s. This person gets letters from the IRS saying they want to send a refund but can't without a return being filed.

While technically you are correct that failure to file penalties would be nil if yu have no unpaid taxes, a couple questions are in order.

How would you know that you have paid the tax that you owe unless you have prepared a return or at least done all the requisite calculations?

While it is rare that the government would prosecute a willful failure to file if you don't owe, is it a risk that you are willing to take or suggest that others take? Are you willing to take the risk that you draw some administrator or prosecutor who decides to prosecute you to make a point?

Next time you see that person, please thank them for their contributions to the U.S. government.

Failure to file is one of the criminal offenses set forth in IRC § 7203. Notably, the statute requires that the failure to file the tax return was “willful” – so mere inadvertence or carelessness is not punishable under the statute. In order to establish willful failure to file a return under section 7203, the government must show three things: (1) the taxpayer was required by law to file a return for the taxable year; (2) the taxpayer failed to file the return at the time required by law; and (3) the failure was willful. In establishing its case against the taxpayer, the government is typically able to very easily show that the first two elements of the crime are present. Unlike the tax evasion statute found in IRC § 7201, the government does not have to show that there is an additional tax due and owing; however, this element is usually present none the less and the government rarely prosecutes taxpayers who fail to file, yet owe nothing.

 

[haha]

Lord knows, being ER'd means having some spare time So, since I no longer can get free Turbo Tax (Deluxe), what's the downside to paper filing? Obviously, there's the delay in getting any refund. But is that delay much longer?
Yes, I can easily afford the cost, but I never had to pay for it in the past. Being the cheapskate that I am, so far I haven't been able to fork over the $$$. Granted, I'm rusty from DIY tax filing after years of Turbo, but if I did it before I'm sure I can follow my old Turbo template.
Am I being unrealistic?

No clue why you might want to retire, then spend your time on something likely more annoying than your job was, and at which you are not an expert, to save a very modest amount of money, like maybe a so-so lunch for 2.

Ha

 

[GrayHare]

How would you know that you have paid the tax that you owe unless you have prepared a return or at least done all the requisite calculations?

If one's income is solely from a job, withholding usually gets close to the proper amount of tax due. Even in other situations many people figure an amount to pay as estimated taxes. I wonder what percent of taxpayers who are supposed to file a return do not. The person I mentioned is likely not the only one.