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Old 12-06-2020, 08:11 PM   #21
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Let us not forget the lower income tax rate for "married filing jointly" as opposed to "single." Although that may be more relevant to a widow/widower who receives a survivor benefit, than to a couple who choose to remain unmarried.
Great point Amethyst! Especially with the tax changes a couple years ago, MFJ can be advantageous. Depends on the particulars of course.
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:16 PM   #22
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I got married 5 years after my first wife died. Prenup?

I don need no stinkin' prenup.

Hey Baby, I love you and want to share the rest of my life with you but hey...first you have to sign this document just in case it doesn't work out.

So very romantic eh?
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:20 PM   #23
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I sure wouldn't get married.

I had a friend his name was Henry. He was married 8 times when I knew him well. I always called him Henry the VIII even thou the real Henry the VIII, had only 6 different wives. He was so high on life when he found a new love. I'm not sure I could have lead his life style but he was always happy in life.
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:22 PM   #24
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I'm not anti pre-nup per se, especially when there are things like children and businesses to protect. But I also think that's the kind of discussion to have earlier on in a relationship, and shouldn't be news or lumped in with the engagement discussion (or worse, after)

Besides, the answer to "how do you feel about prenups" would make for a good discussion with a potential life partner. If they get up and flip the table and storm out, well you've just learned a lot about them. In the OP's case, his GF has her own business so she might be relieved that he brings it up first.

I would never consider being Mrs so and so the 4th, no matter how the priors ended, so it would be a moot point for me.
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:36 PM   #25
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The above argument is pure nonsense.

Trust based upon love does not mean that you trust a person to go very near the flames of temptation, but somehow not get burned by them. Trust means you trust that person to walk away from the flames before he/she can feel the heat or see much of the light.
I have a little bit of sympathy for the aggrieved party. When a poor person enters into a relationship with a rich person, there can be an awkward collision of worldviews. How well does a long-time financially secure person understand what it's like to be long-time financially insecure (living on the edge, so to speak)?

Absent any other arrangements, a poor person signing a prenup is agreeing to remain poor even after the death of the wealthy partner. This brings up an auxiliary question that could be lurking in the mind of the poor person: "If you really love me, you would be willing to make me rich after your death ..." Ouch!

BTW: my wealthy relative disclosed her net worth to her future husband very early in their budding relationship. I was appalled. What is it with rich people disclosing their assets to attract a mate?
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:44 PM   #26
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Absent any other arrangements, a poor person signing a prenup is agreeing to remain poor even after the death of the wealthy partner.
This is not necessarily the case. If the wealthy partner wants to reduce the chance of the prenup being contested, he/she would be wise to agree to reasonable, even generous terms. I'd suspect many prenups are written this way. Unless contested, prenups also of course potentially save legal fees in the event of divorce, which can be enormous.
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:45 PM   #27
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Absent any other arrangements, a poor person signing a prenup is agreeing to remain poor even after the death of the wealthy partner.
Doesn't that depend on detail of the prenup?
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Old 12-06-2020, 09:09 PM   #28
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Doesn't that depend on detail of the prenup?
Absolutely. I was referring to the prenup that I'm familiar with, where the poorer party signed away all of his rights under state law to the assets of his wealthy future spouse upon her death. "Other arrangements" were made to lessen the blow, but resentment lingered nevertheless. Many other prenup agreements are possible, but the details here are way above my pay grade.
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Old 12-06-2020, 09:48 PM   #29
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I don't like the idea of going into a marriage with an exit plan already in place. I wouldn't have accepted one when I was young and getting married the first time. If my husband predeceases me (he's 9 year's older) I'd probably have significant assets to protect. I don't think I'd use one if I got remarried.
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Old 12-06-2020, 10:04 PM   #30
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Just for giggles, I looked up a former beau on the internet. When he was a Resident I visited him while staying with my Father's cousin in Mineapallos. After spending several hours with the beau my relative told me that the guy was a loser. Turns out he was correct. I discovered that he has been divorced twice.

The OP says he has been married 3 times. It is silent as to how many times he has been divorced. Were I the lady of his attention I would be very careful.
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Old 12-07-2020, 01:17 AM   #31
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I was widowed and remarried. We keep all our stuff separate, so there is no problem. Even in a community property state, if the assets are not commingled, there should not be a problem.
Sounds like you never gone through a divorce, doesn’t matter that you keep them separated. BTW a prenup can be invalidated, for example if you have children...ask Tiger Woods.
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Old 12-07-2020, 03:23 AM   #32
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+1

Frank and I met back in 2000 on an internet dating site. I told him on our first date that I wanted a relationship with no limits on emotional commitment but no marriage, no living together, and no mixing of money or financial assets.
...
That is an excellent way to communicate your desires. Appreciate that wisdom.

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..... After spending several hours with the beau my relative told me that the guy was a loser. Turns out he was correct. I discovered that he has been divorced twice.

The OP says he has been married 3 times. It is silent as to how many times he has been divorced. Were I the lady of his attention I would be very careful.
This gives me pause-I am a twice divorced person and yet the second divorce was definitely not my choice while the first one was a mutual decision as we married very young and then only spent half of our married life in the same place (dual military does that). I don't want to think of myself as a 'loser' but I know that could be implied.

I think that's why it's important to be clear about what you want and why while dating. I would not necessarily discount someone who has been divorced twice, however, I would want to know the reasons behind those. One must understand what it was that they contributed to any situation to determine what should change for the next situation (if at all).

To the OP, one way to look at this is you can't take it with you when you die. So, how would you like your assets to be distributed and if you want this new 'friend' in your life to possibly share in your largesse, by how much and will they be able to manage any friction with the rest of your family. I would also ask if they want that. As W2R above, it may not be necessary, but it depends on the people involved.

A little story; I know a lady who was divorced once, widowed once and re-met a guy who had been single his whole life that she had known in high school. Turns out he had loved her all along. He had a terminal condition, but he wanted to marry her because he wanted her to have his assets. He had no other family or they did not need his assets. He just wanted to be able to spend the rest of his life with someone he cared for and provide for her afterward.

So, one never knows.....
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Old 12-07-2020, 04:55 AM   #33
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+1

Frank and I met back in 2000 on an internet dating site. I told him on our first date that I wanted a relationship with no limits on emotional commitment but no marriage, no living together, and no mixing of money or financial assets.

Having heard many horror stories about gold diggers, he thought that was a great idea. We both feel like we are too old to start over again from scratch.

We are simply NOT interested in government enforcement of any financial agreements. We just want to be with each other.

A very top notch attorney once told me that all preconceptions aside, there is no such thing as a completely bullet-proof prenup if confronted by a good enough legal team. I tend to believe him, but either way it's irrelevant to me since I have no desire to marry again.

+1
I hope my wife has a long and healthy life if i go first. In case that doesn't happen then I am going to keep this in mind if I was ever to meet anyone else. I will most likely be too broken and old to be of any use to another partner by then. If that is the case then her grown children will be getting a big boost in their retirement as will a few animal rescues.


Cheers!



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Old 12-07-2020, 06:28 AM   #34
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I've always felt your approach was a wise one.

For one thing, it puts off any swains who are thinking wistfully of having someone around again to make sandwiches, ensure the toilets get cleaned regularly, and remember his grandchildren's birthdays.
My 85 year old father refers to that as the search for 'A nurse and a purse.'
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Old 12-07-2020, 06:37 AM   #35
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I got married 5 years after my first wife died. Prenup?

I don need no stinkin' prenup.

Hey Baby, I love you and want to share the rest of my life with you but hey...first you have to sign this document just in case it doesn't work out.

So very romantic eh?
Says absolutely everyone until they wished they had a prenup.

This is like those people who dont believe in modern medicine. They want to cure everything with therapeutics, herbal potions and crystals. Easy to say that when you're not really sick. Check back on those folks when theyve been diagnosed with a brain tumor or cancer. See if they still want to cure cancer with beet roots, or if they want to take the modern western medicine approach, lol.
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Old 12-07-2020, 06:54 AM   #36
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Sorry, but I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that you've been married 3 times in the past and you still have assets?



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Old 12-07-2020, 07:13 AM   #37
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I am DH third wife he is my second spouse.

We have a prenup. He wanted to protect his pension I wanted to protect my children.

Second marriage cost DH 750k to keep her from his pension. She swore up and down when they got married she wouldn’t go after it but alas the end of a marriage is quite different than the beginning.

I declined DH marriage proposal for 8 years we have been married 3. I don’t see us divorcing but if we did his income would be more than double mine. That’s the risk I took retiring with him this year at 54.

There were financial reasons for us to get married. Health Insurance coverage was the number 1 reason. I couldn’t have retired early without his health insurance. If I had to continue working WE couldn’t have the life WE wanted together.

I won’t lie and say there wasn’t some tension when we got the lawyers involved but in the end it’s what we both wanted and we worked through it.

Live your life as you see fit!

PS I always tell DH I don’t know what was wrong with his 2 ex’s he is a gem and couldn’t be a better DH.
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:35 AM   #38
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I have been married 3 times ...
Don't do that again. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Are you insane?
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:38 AM   #39
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To me, the whole prenup situation is rather strange: you agree to get married under the laws of a certain state and then try to replace a certain portion of those laws with your own directives. Why get married in the first place?
Because there are many legal benefits to being married. Just one example, a spouse can collect social security spousal benefits.
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:55 AM   #40
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Perhaps the only smart thing Suze Orman said was about prenups. Something to the effect of: if the marriage lasts, then it's just a piece of paper. If the marriage fails, it can be invaluable.
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