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Old 12-07-2020, 12:35 PM   #61
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What I meant by "easy" has more to do with the fact that divorce has become much more acceptable. Nowadays one is unlikely to be shunned by the community because one walked away from one's marriage so the decision to divorce has to clear a much lower threshold. Hence it "cheapens" marriage as a bond.
It has become easier, even "no fault".
To me that means marriage is a choice of commitment rather than a life long prison sentence.
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Old 12-07-2020, 12:48 PM   #62
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Marriage #1 - I had doubts, therefore I went with a prenup. We were divorced within 2 years.

Marriage #2 - I had NO doubts, therefore I did not need a prenup. We will be happily celebrating our 10 year anniversary on April 2nd.

I was able to determine the type of woman that I was marrying by courting her for two years and being a trusting partner. If you do not trust the woman that you are marrying - then don’t get married.

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Old 12-07-2020, 12:50 PM   #63
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It has become easier, even "no fault".
To me that means marriage is a choice of commitment rather than a life long prison sentence.
But can we talk about commitment if that commitment can end at any time and for any reason? The question can become quite philosophical (too much so for my simple mind ). Anyways, to each their own, I'm not judging. I understand why marriage retains tremendous appeal to some.
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Old 12-07-2020, 01:03 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by FIREd View Post
What I meant by "easy" has more to do with the fact that divorce has become much more acceptable. Nowadays one is unlikely to be shunned by the community because one walked away from one's marriage so the decision to divorce has to clear a much lower threshold. Hence it "cheapens" marriage as a bond.
OK, but divorce rates are also down. Marriage rates are also down, so maybe the % of marriages ending in divorce is still slightly up, but it doesn't seem like it's by much, if at all. This graph, along with explanation of how the data was compiled, is from 144 years of marriage and divorce in 1 chart | Dr. Randal S. Olson

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Old 12-07-2020, 10:07 PM   #65
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With your track record, unless you are a widower, I don't think it is a good idea for HER.
Lol!!!! That sounds sexist!!!
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:08 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by teejayevans View Post
Unless you plan to have kids, then no.

Editorial comment: 3 times!!! I question your sanity.
I guess I'm an insane millionaire!
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:11 PM   #67
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+1

Frank and I met back in 2000 on an internet dating site. I told him on our first date that I wanted a relationship with no limits on emotional commitment but no marriage, no living together, and no mixing of money or financial assets.

Having heard many horror stories about gold diggers, he thought that was a great idea. We both feel like we are too old to start over again from scratch.

We are simply NOT interested in government enforcement of any financial agreements. We just want to be with each other.

A very top notch attorney once told me that all preconceptions aside, there is no such thing as a completely bullet-proof prenup if confronted by a good enough legal team. I tend to believe him, but either way it's irrelevant to me since I have no desire to marry again.
Do you guys still live in 2 separate homes?
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:11 PM   #68
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Lol!!!! That sounds sexist!!!
If the reverse were the situation I would say it wouldn't be a smart move for HIM.

As others have mentioned it depends on the specifics.
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:12 PM   #69
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I was widowed and remarried. We keep all our stuff separate, so there is no problem. Even in a community property state, if the assets are not commingled, there should not be a problem.
Love this option!
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:16 PM   #70
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I don't have an opinion on whether you should get married, but I do know there are significant potential financial benefits to being married as opposed to simply living with a person. These may or may not apply to your situation. Some of them include:

Spouses are eligible for social security spousal benefits while alive and survivor benefits upon the death of one spouse. These are most relevant if one spouse has a significantly higher SS benefit than the other.

A 401k or IRA has better RMD options when left to a spouse as opposed to a non-spouse.

If you live in a community property state, if you elect to make some of your assets community property, a surviving spouse gets a full step up for the community property. So, if John and Mary each have $100,000 in non retirement assets each of which has a $50,000 basis and they combine their accounts and declare them community property, then upon the death of either, the survivor has $200,000 with a basis of $200,000. Better than $200,000 with a basis of $150,000 which would be the case if they did not get married and left the account to the survivor.

In California, a spouse may inherit a residence's property tax basis from a spouse. This could be a very valuable benefit due to Proposition 13, if one spouse has held a property for a long time.

Many other potential benefits related to employment and insurance.

Sorry but I would like to go on a little rant: I often hear or read derogatory comments directed toward couples that opt for a prenup. When I married my spouse, we had a prenup executed. We got married fairly late in life and will not have children. We each have our own assets that we would like to see go to our own relatives when we are both deceased. With the advice and help of a few attorneys, we put a plan in place to do this by executing a prenup wherein we keep separate property (including our retirement accounts). Our estate plans are coordinated with our prenup such that a surviving spouse can use the assets of the first deceased spouse. Upon the death of the surviving spouse, the unused assets of each spouse pass to each spouse's designated beneficiaries. My point in saying all this is that for us a prenup was crucial to assuring our wishes have the best chance of being executed. Anyone who tells me prenups are useless or taint a marriage is in my opinion displaying ignorance and intolerance. There are many other reasons couples elect to have prenups and my opinion is that as long as a couple is in agreement on the terms without coercion, no one is qualified to pass judgment on their choices.

Regarding the enforceability of a prenup, we were told by several family and estate attorneys that in California it is very difficult to successfully contest a well executed prenup. In California, the standard for throwing out a prenup is that it be "unconscionable", or not have met some statutory requirement such as each side having their own counsel et. al. Now, if one of the parties is a billionaire, or one of the parties is being left with meager resources, the calculus will be different. But if a couple has a prenup executed properly with reasonable terms, it is very unlikely to be contested at all, let alone contested successfully.

Anyway, to the OP, be aware there are some financial benefits only marriage can confer. A properly executed prenup is a legal option to substitute mutually agreed upon divorce terms over the default in your state and no one should feel their marriage is any less if this is elected. Finally, best wishes to both of you whatever you decide!
Thank you for sharing your story! We both agree that a prenup will be a great choice!
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:24 PM   #71
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Sorry, but I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that you've been married 3 times in the past and you still have assets?



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Old 12-07-2020, 10:28 PM   #72
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I'm really sorry you went through such a disastrous divorce at age 50.

I guess I was a lucky man that got divorced at 25, 35 and 41!
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:33 PM   #73
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I love your story. I have enjoyed reading all of these posts, since a lot of people think that because you were married 3 times and got divorced it is all my fault.

I'm so glad to hear that you found in your husband your best friend and your life partner to live and share a lot of experiences and memories together!
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Old 12-07-2020, 11:00 PM   #74
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That is an excellent way to communicate your desires. Appreciate that wisdom.







This gives me pause-I am a twice divorced person and yet the second divorce was definitely not my choice while the first one was a mutual decision as we married very young and then only spent half of our married life in the same place (dual military does that). I don't want to think of myself as a 'loser' but I know that could be implied.



I think that's why it's important to be clear about what you want and why while dating. I would not necessarily discount someone who has been divorced twice, however, I would want to know the reasons behind those. One must understand what it was that they contributed to any situation to determine what should change for the next situation (if at all).



To the OP, one way to look at this is you can't take it with you when you die. So, how would you like your assets to be distributed and if you want this new 'friend' in your life to possibly share in your largesse, by how much and will they be able to manage any friction with the rest of your family. I would also ask if they want that. As W2R above, it may not be necessary, but it depends on the people involved.



A little story; I know a lady who was divorced once, widowed once and re-met a guy who had been single his whole life that she had known in high school. Turns out he had loved her all along. He had a terminal condition, but he wanted to marry her because he wanted her to have his assets. He had no other family or they did not need his assets. He just wanted to be able to spend the rest of his life with someone he cared for and provide for her afterward.



So, one never knows.....


Nice story, sweet ending. No need for a pre-nup in that arrangement.
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Old 12-07-2020, 11:30 PM   #75
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Do you guys still live in 2 separate homes?
Yes, right next door to one another. There's about 20 feet between his house and mine. I'm not saying this is great for every couple, but it works really well for us.
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Old 12-08-2020, 04:19 AM   #76
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Honestly, I think they should make prenups *mandatory* for all marriages. Marriage by definition is a *contract*, and good contracts tell you what happens if the thing falls apart. If you can't have an "adult" conversation about what the obligations or expectations you have of one another if the marriage should dissolve, then you aren't ready for marriage.

Anyone who's nervous about this sort of conversation has obviously never asked the "hard questions" when dating:

1. How much debt do you have? What's your plan to pay it off?
2. Do you want kids?
3. If yes, does one of us stop working if we have kids? How do we decide?
4. Will you support me financially for the rest of my life if I stop working?
5. If we part ways, how will assets be distributed?

Even a couple in their 20s with nothing may have a tough time with #3 & #4. Anyone who answers yes to #3, better be answering yes to #4 as well, and be willing to get that inked in writing -- you'd be surprised how many people think they can ask somebody to give up their career and then not support them for the rest of their life. Don't like that arrangement? Then you'd better have amazing parents or afford a nanny.

In addition, you'd be surprised how pin-drop quiet the convo gets when the male partner volunteers to stay at home with the kids and be financially supported for the rest of his life. Strange how that is.
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Old 12-08-2020, 06:28 AM   #77
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I love your story. I have enjoyed reading all of these posts, since a lot of people think that because you were married 3 times and got divorced it is all my fault.
I don't think anyone is saying that, just that, for whatever reason, you have a track record most of us would avoid in a potential new partner. You could absolutely be a well-meaning hopeless romantic who went into every marriage deeply in love, with the best of intentions, but happened to unluckily pick the wrong partner every time.
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Old 12-08-2020, 12:33 PM   #78
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Honestly, I think they should make prenups *mandatory* for all marriages. Marriage by definition is a *contract*, and good contracts tell you what happens if the thing falls apart. If you can't have an "adult" conversation about what the obligations or expectations you have of one another if the marriage should dissolve, then you aren't ready for marriage.

...
Marriage being a contract becomes very evident when one goes through a divorce. Many don't realize that the government becomes heavily involved in divorce and sets rules for the standards of property division. My experience has been that the person who has the most assets will be sharing more than they might believe they should....and that gender is not the issue. Moreover, whenever one is dealing with a government entity, that entity is not necessarily interested in an efficient process for dispute resolution as they are paid for facilitating the process. It is up to the parties involved to minimize those costs, if possible. However, humans being emotional creatures can sometimes think of using an outside process as a weapon or tool to use for their benefit of contract negotiations.

I was fortunate to not pay enormous sums to lawyers for my divorces and I as a female had more assets to my name in both cases. However, on an emotional level, even though I was relieved it didn't cost much for the legal process of dissolution, the emotional cost was something I did not like, moreover, there can be a sense of failure, even if you tried everything you could to not have the relationship dissolve. Divorce definitely teaches you that you cannot control others, merely your response to their actions.
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Old 12-11-2020, 04:42 PM   #79
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One of my friends was telling me about his 80 yo brother who was married 3X previously and is now out shopping for a new house for #4. The brother lives in Texas and the woman in California. Apparently he would be willing to move to California, but he did not want to have to relocate his 3 dogs, so she is coming to Texas. To each his own, I guess.
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Old 12-11-2020, 04:55 PM   #80
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In most states provided you don’t commingle funds they remain separate. What is always joint is any growth the assets may have. You have a home worth 1 million , get married and she or he moves in, you keep the title in your name. In 10; years you divorce and the house is worth 5 million. The first 1 million is yours and you split the remaining 4. I think the system is fundamentally fair if lawyers don’t get greedy, or it is about punishing the other person. Would it be different with your business partner and and amicable ending of the business?

Now somethings don’t share the appreciation. Your mother dies and you inherit the house, spouse gets zero. You rent it out for 10 years and spouse shared in the income. The sale proceeds are still yours. Or so it is written. That did not stop the lawyer for my friends ex who went after the assets he was to receive as an inheritance from his wealthy mother. $20k in legal bills before a judge killed the claim. They divorced, mother lived another 25 years and spent all the money
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