Would u retire if u have health insurance??

[2B]

Not really on topic, but I guess I opened the can of worms...

You did. Health care is only a small piece of the problem but it all adds up to a much bigger mess whether it's 5 or 25MM. You , CFB, live in the boonies of northern California, I think, but I'm not going to search the past post about your recent move. You may not be seeing the problem up close and personal.

1. We clearly have lost control of our borders and social infrastructure. Where else in the world are "illegals" marching in the street demanding their "rights?" If these were Panamanians marching in Mexico their only "right" would be to hearded back across the border by whatever means are necessary.
2. Houston is a focal point of Mexican gang activity. I can't say these are all illegals because their "anchor babies" (now US citizens) also seem to be fully engaged in the family business. They excel at narcotics, prostitution, slavery, auto theft and murder. The plus side of their activities is murdering their competition which is usually other Mexican gangs or New Orleans transplanted gangs. Who said they were doing work Americans don't want to do?
3. DW and I have had 3 accidents in the last 5 years. One gave me a fake drivers licence and insurance card (appeared to be very Hispanic and spoke very little English so I think he just might be here without the proper work visa). He had a very nice, very new truck but the police later told me the license plate had expired and had previously been on a Taurus. The other two were hit and runs. I'd decribe the drivers but appearances lead me to believe there may have been a documentation issue. Do you think they might not want to wait for the police to arrive?
4. Any money spent for the medical care, housing or feeding of illegal entrants to the US is money not spent on our own disadvantaged citizens. My only assumption is that the supporters of unlimited immigration into the US are racists that hate our US born poor -- many of whom are darker skinned and compete for the low skilled jobs taken by the illegal entrants into our country.

Have I made the thread hijack complete?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Interesting stuff, but not particularly related to health care costs. At least I sort of stuck tangentially to the original topic

I actually live about 30 minutes from the capitol of the state of california. Right smack in the middle of one of the largest fruit, vegetable and dairy growing areas in the US. Which means we probably have just as many illegal aliens as anyone, excepting close border towns.

Without them, the farmers would sell their properties to developers, as they'd have no way to produce a reasonably priced product.

Which would make food costs a much larger problem.

ANNNNYHOW...to get back to the original topic, I think that most people who have a paid off house, healthcare covered, and at least 25-30k in annual cash flow can take a run at retirement. Without the healthcare coverage, you're too exposed. A major illness/injury 5 or more years into your ER when your job skills are a bit eroded could turn your life into a pretty bad situation.

 

[unclemick]

Age 49 to age 63 - health insurance and work or no health insurance and ER - I chose ER.

Don't do what I did! - it worked BUT I have no knowledge of the odds.

The cheapest quote I got in LA was ? 458/mo for 5k deductible. I believe my Cobra would have been around 728/mo in 93.

Age 63 in MO - 10k deductible 138/mo - time in in the market means I can afford it now.

Not recommended - but I've been known to commit other sins also.

heh heh heh - My actual ER would make a spreadsheet come alive and upchuck - but or I done what I done .

"never tell me the odds!" Han Solo - Star Wars. BTY my passport has been renewed and for 10k deduct - ??plane trip/Thailand or India?

 

[volga]

I suggest a simple solution: make your income in the USA, and export your retirement to a low cost, high value lifestyle country with socialized medicine. Offshore retirement cash flow in exchange for long term affordable medical coverage. Enjoy a Mai Tai on the beach in Sri Lanka or a mountain Home in the southern Urals, or a town house in Naples...its a large planet and plenty of personal options for the non-conformist.

 

[Alex]

Would I retire if I had health insurance? Nope, I still need more in my nest egg. But if I had the required nest egg I certainly would not delay retirement because of lacking Health insurance.

PS- I exercise daily - IMHO that is the best health insurance available! Get off yer butt and do something physical!!!

PSS - My favorite exercise to lose weight is the 'push away' - I simply push the plate away!!! Works like a charm....

 

[W2R]

ANNNNYHOW...to get back to the original topic, I think that most people who have a paid off house, healthcare covered, and at least 25-30k in annual cash flow can take a run at retirement.

I think so, too!! I am planning to ER with a paid off house, no debts, healthcare covered, and 35-38K/year. I would probably ER on less, but I have to wait until then for the health coverage to kick in anyway.

Without the healthcare coverage, you're too exposed. A major illness/injury 5 or more years into your ER when your job skills are a bit eroded could turn your life into a pretty bad situation.

So, with a paid off house, at least 25-30K in annual cash flow, and enough to pay for a high deductible health insurance policy, can someone retire? I am not in that situation but if I were, it would worry me that the cost of the policy might increase drastically as I got older, beyond my ability to pay.

 

[52andout]

Alex, taking care of yourself is the best thing you can do, however health insurance also covered my husband who fell on the ice through no fault of his own and herniated a disc as well as his good friend who had pancreatic cancer. His friend ran marathons and was about in as good shape as anyone could be before he was diagnosed after a 30 lb weight loss one month, then he woke up yellow one day.

things happen beyond your control. I would be afraid not to have health insurance- too scary for me. It would be the one thing that might make me continue to work or go back.

 

[Alex]

Alex, taking care of yourself is the best thing you can do, however health insurance also covered my husband who fell on the ice through no fault of his own and herniated a disc as well as his good friend who had pancreatic cancer. His friend ran marathons and was about in as good shape as anyone could be before he was diagnosed after a 30 lb weight loss one month, then he woke up yellow one day.

things happen beyond your control. I would be afraid not to have health insurance- too scary for me. It would be the one thing that might make me continue to work or go back.

I hear you. Stuff happens that you cannot plan for. Of course, given the choice, I'd rather have insurance any day. But you can always get a catastrophic policy with a 5k or 10k deductible for a pretty reasonable annual cost, can't you? That would make me feel pretty comfortable.

 

[52andout]

Alex:In NY I checked and for a major medical it would run us about $1000 per month. We are guaranteed in NY to have access to medical insurance, but you have to have the money. The major medical would not cover MD visits and with the conditions I mentioned it would be quite a financial burden. And when you went to the MD you would not have the clout that an insurer would have to negotiate rates. This issue is very dear to my heart, my friend with pancreatic cancer did not want to prolonge his life but did not want to be in the excruciating pain this cancer causes and also did not want to leave his wife and children destitute. He died a death that was at least painless but it was very expensive and he did not have life prolonging measures. thankfully he had good insurance. We miss him everyday.
As far as my husband goes, to pay for the MRI, injections, medications and office visits would have set us back if we were living on a limited budget. And the visit to the surgeon (best in the area) as well as the other costs could have very well sent a normal person back to work.
I forgot to mention he also has malignant melanoma and has had several surgeries. All of these medical conditions are through no fault of our own. Just living life.

 

[maddythebeagle]

Yeah, a 10k deductible plan sounds good until you have to spend that every year if you land in bad health... Still, even if you had to live on a limited budget while you were sick, isnt that still better than having to go to work?

 

[Zipper]

i talked to a friend of a family from CANADA and i am started to think National Health Care in the US is NOT gonna work either.

She told me the corruption, abuse, misuse, ... are unbelievable. For example, everyone REFUSED to buy of-the-shelf pills like tylenol, advid... why, just because if they go to the doctor they get it prescribe and for free. she also mentioned that a headache, a stupid cough people would go the emergency room, again free...

don't know the details but i can imagine the abuse going on there, also she mentioned doctor there prescribed drugs to patients that are not really sick then these people take the drugs and send it to someone else for a fee or for free...

bla, bla,... i am just worry about health insurance caused i heard number 2 bankruptcy in the US is related to illness.

enuff

Your friend is shooting you a line.

If a drug is available OTC, doctors cannot prescribe it and have it paid by available plans.

Been there and tried it.

 

[Texas Proud]

Your friend is shooting you a line.

If a drug is available OTC, doctors cannot prescribe it and have it paid by available plans.

Been there and tried it.

But they can request a prescription that is NOT OTC that does the same thing... heard about it when I was in UK...

Also heard people trying to do it here when Claritin became OTC as it was a lot more expensive than when it was a prescription...

 

[Sam]

Your friend is shooting you a line.

I loathe exaggerations as much as generalizations based on a few specific cases. It's hard to avoid pessimistics and whiners, they are everywhere.

 

[Alex]

Alex:In NY I checked and for a major medical it would run us about $1000 per month. We are guaranteed in NY to have access to medical insurance, but you have to have the money. The major medical would not cover MD visits and with the conditions I mentioned it would be quite a financial burden. And when you went to the MD you would not have the clout that an insurer would have to negotiate rates. This issue is very dear to my heart, my friend with pancreatic cancer did not want to prolonge his life but did not want to be in the excruciating pain this cancer causes and also did not want to leave his wife and children destitute. He died a death that was at least painless but it was very expensive and he did not have life prolonging measures. thankfully he had good insurance. We miss him everyday.
As far as my husband goes, to pay for the MRI, injections, medications and office visits would have set us back if we were living on a limited budget. And the visit to the surgeon (best in the area) as well as the other costs could have very well sent a normal person back to work.
I forgot to mention he also has malignant melanoma and has had several surgeries. All of these medical conditions are through no fault of our own. Just living life.

I am sorry for your loss. My mother died of pancreatic cancer back in 1982.

I recommend that you add an additional 250-300K of assets to cover the cost of insurance before you retire. That will produce an extra $1,000 per month of income. In your specific case it probably makes sense to work a few extra years.

 

[vino]

Hai,

I am Vino. I am Newbie to here.

Hello guys, Im from ........., I just turned 29 last April and my health insurance has been cancelled, I got a physical to check things out before then and my alt and ast liver enzyms were up so I got a ultrasound of my liver, nothing found.. got another blood test a couple days later and they were normal, then I turned 29 and my insurance cancelled..
But recently, I have been having this pain in my upper middle back down through my right side, it hurts when I stretch out and it hurts when I take deep breaths, the pain on a scale of 1-10 is about an 8 when I take deep breaths and about a 7 when I stretch the wrong way. I have some
trouble swallowing too.. I am concern because if something happens to me my life is not insured. I have been surfing the net for good health insurance, i came into Insurancepaylite, has anyone tried online insurance? how effective is the online quote system? can i depend my money on these?

Thanks in Advance

 

[chinaco]

Health insurance as we know it is less
than 70 years old... what did Americans
do for the first 160 years ?

Health insurance in this country does get one access to medical care to be proactive about health concerns. Which could help one to live longer and maintain quality of life.


On a separate note: Health insurance is about selling away the risk of financial ruin due to certain health related problems. If you have something to lose... you might consider protecting it.

On the other hand, if you have nothing and feel you are healthy... our system supports people just showing up at the emergency room at most hospitals for a "cost shifting" freebie. Plus there are a variety of charitable clinics.

 

[chinaco]

Hai,

I am Vino. I am Newbie to here.

Not sure of your background. But You might consider finding some job, any job that has health insurance. Larger companies are more likely to tolerate you if you are having a health problem. Heck for that matter Starbucks is supposed to have a good health plan. I am not sure of the COBRA rules (how long you have to be employed to qualify), but you can usually use it for 18 months after employment stops.

You need to get to a doctor.

 

[vino]

Not sure of your background. But You might consider finding some job, any job that has health insurance. Larger companies are more likely to tolerate you if you are having a health problem. Heck for that matter Starbucks is supposed to have a good health plan. I am not sure of the COBRA rules (how long you have to be employed to qualify), but you can usually use it for 18 months after employment stops.

You need to get to a doctor.

Hai,

I am Vino.

Thanks ya. Thanks for your Informations.

 

[chinaco]

Hai,

I am Vino.

Thanks ya. Thanks for your Informations.

 

[vino]

Hai,

Its ok. Anyhave thanks for your openion

 

[bosco]

i talked to a friend of a family from CANADA and i am started to think National Health Care in the US is NOT gonna work either.

She told me the corruption, abuse, misuse, ... are unbelievable. For example, everyone REFUSED to buy of-the-shelf pills like tylenol, advid... why, just because if they go to the doctor they get it prescribe and for free. she also mentioned that a headache, a stupid cough people would go the emergency room, again free...

don't know the details but i can imagine the abuse going on there, also she mentioned doctor there prescribed drugs to patients that are not really sick then these people take the drugs and send it to someone else for a fee or for free...

bla, bla,... i am just worry about health insurance caused i heard number 2 bankruptcy in the US is related to illness.

enuff

First, I think you should get data from more than one family before you formulate an opinion about Canada's medical system. I think it's a reasonable system for basic medical care, but has some problems delivering some of the necessary higher-end procedures (e.g. MRI's, joint replacements, that kind of thing). In these cases there are unacceptable wait lists in some areas. There is serious talk of supplementing the system with private insurance component similar to what has has been done in much of Europe.

As for the drug abuse situation you describe, this same thing happens plenty in the US. Remember, that 45 million Americans are uninsured. That means 255 million have some sort of coverage. Many of them abuse their insurance in just the way you describe, raising the cost for everyone. This is not a problem just with a socialized medicine system.

Although malpractice insurance may not be the direct cause of much of the overpricing in the US, I think it's effect is more pervasive. A lot of unnecessary tests and procedures are ordered to cover the doctor's @ss that may not have been required in a less sue-happy society.

I remember back (about 15 years ago) when I was commercial fishing and I got fish-slime poisoning in my thumb. It requires antibiotics or it won't go away. I went to the doctor, basically said "see, I have fish slime poisoning, I need antibiotics." The doctor took a sterile needle, a bowl, lanced it, squeezed out the puss, gave me a $10 prescription, and charged me $150.

$90 visit
$40 "procedure"
$10 "sterile implement"
$10 antibiotic

So I got charged for the person, what the person did, and what they did it with simultaneously. All I really needed was the antibiotic and instructions to soak it and squeeze out the puss (which I already knew). I didn't even get a rebate for providing them the diagnosis!

I complained at the front desk about the billing and stated that I would only agree if the insurance company didn't complain. The insurance company didn't even blink at the charges....

 

[Sam]

I remember back (about 15 years ago) when I was commercial fishing and I got fish-slime poisoning in my thumb. It requires antibiotics or it won't go away. I went to the doctor, basically said "see, I have fish slime poisoning, I need antibiotics." The doctor took a sterile needle, a bowl, lanced it, squeezed out the puss, gave me a $10 prescription, and charged me $150.

$90 visit
$40 "procedure"
$10 "sterile implement"
$10 antibiotic

Yep! And that was 15 years ago.

If the same situation happens in a place outside of the USA, you'd most likely go the neighborhood pharmacy, show your finger to the pharmacist. He would then sell you the antibiotics and show you how to use it. Total cost about $5.

 

[JonnyM]

To answer the thread question. Yes, and we did. Medical insurance is just that, Insurance against the cost of a possible intensely expensive treatment that we hope we'll never need. I appreciate the various choices from excellent "covers everything" plans with relatively low deductibles and copays to the less costly high deductible plans that trade less cost for more risk, but in good "healthy" years pay off significantly.

I'm not much of a gambler, DW and I budget about 10k per year for a plan that limits our out of pocket extras to $20 per visit and $10 per 3 month supply of any prescription.

That outlay is significant, but clearly part of the entire ER/FIRE process, just like having a paid for house or a plan for autos/major appliances, etc. We determined that we could meet our expenses (including Health Care at the level we chose) with the ER income we could expect to achieve. Until we achieved the magic number we agreed was "enough" I would have to continue in the work force. Thankfully, I've joined DW in FIRE now for about a 18 months now, and we're doing fine only living slightly beyond our means LOL.

The last few years I spent down at the plant, I covered us both with health coverage, but there was nothing free about it. It cost what it cost, we never saw it as a decision to opt out and pocket the money. The cost did rise over time as well, no surprise there.When I finally ER'd the cobra was not very attractive, but they did offer group plans that we could continue on, with no lapse in coverage and no opportunity for the HMO to screen us, or deny us coverage. We choose the most attractive plan, and here we are. Now that we're thinking of moving North for a better climate, more space, etc, we'll have to reshop.

I expect the cost to increase over time, part of life, I budget an increase of about 2000 per year, we'll see what happens.

 

[Mach]

Well stated.
Although, the Illegal alien part is huge also. There are 12MM of them. That is a population of 6-7% of the total. Not minor. This is made up just to show an example: If the avg cost for each one of them costs the govt and hospital, doctors, medical community $2000 (unpaid bill or freebie) That is $24 B. Think about the cost of a mother going to the hospital for a pregnancy (very expensive). Or an accident or injury. The cost is the GDP of many countries.
And most of those end of life cases will apply to that 12MM of non-tax paying Illegals. You cannot deport someone in extremely bad health (near the end of life).

I disagree. Not only not a huge burden, but probably a net positive for you and the U.S. in genreal.

#1 Those immigrants work in the U.S.
You have alread benefited from their work, by having lower costs to the goods and services you get in the U.S. They lower consumer prices, cheap labor of course, has this effect. Who do you think puts them to work? Oh yes, U.S. Businesses. They profit from it, and you do too, and the GDP goes up, and U.S. tax revenue goes up, and yes, when those dirt poor, broken-down immigrants are done being used up, you want to kill them and/or kick them out? Unethical by any standard I'd say.

#2 As if that wasn't enough, many (most?) already pay taxes. Employers pay 1/2 their med/ss tax. They pay sales tax. They pay sin taxes. They spend their money in our economy. Taxes go to fund health care overages. So even if we allow the unethical approach to slave labor and the killing of those slaves...those slaves pay to some degree, for their own care. Yet it's still suggested that it's some horrible thing? I don't follow. Why is it even on the care-about list.

#3 I say let's use that $20B we just got for selling arms to our on-and-off again enemies to help the poor U.S. laborers who are here illegally, working for us. It's not like they broke into your house and stole your stuff, they broke in, repaired it, and left you more money than you had when they broke in.

U.S. set to offer $20 billion arms deal to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states - International Herald Tribune


-Mach