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Old 12-01-2020, 05:35 PM   #21
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Well, they are, but people didn't evolve to plan ahead for 30-year retirements. They evolved to survive on the plains of Africa. The whole idea of living long enough to retire really only happened in the last half of the 20th century. It's probably going to take a few generations for the lessons to really stick.
Ok, many humans aren't rational now, in their current environment.

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Reading the book "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman was a real eye-opener for me. It is not light reading but I found it fascinating.
That is an excellent book. I've read it.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:40 PM   #22
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Ok, many humans aren't rational now, in their current environment.
Not sure what that is supposed to mean.
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Old 12-01-2020, 06:50 PM   #23
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back in high school ('64-'68) a buddy figured he wouldn't live past 30. the way some folks rack up debt sure makes it seem like that attitude has no shortage of followers.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:24 PM   #24
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Humans are not rational.
I agree, but they do rationalize. Every single bad decision they will rationalize in their mind as either the only option they had if they even are willing to admit it was a bad decision, or that the decision is the right one even though it is painfully obvious it isn't.
An example was someone I knew who wanted Lasik surgery about 20 years ago. They were convinced that this was the answer to living with 20/20 vision without glasses. Well, there were complications and she's now legally blind. It's very difficult to make a decision on an elective procedure, ignore the risks and then have to deal with the consequences. The only way her mind could accept things was that she convinced herself this was the right decision and that the results are not that bad. Talk about your delusions! But that's the way things go. With money, people with that mindset will always believe that I am nothing but one lucky bastard and that they are unlucky and that nothing they can do will ever change that.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:36 PM   #25
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So you invest 10% and your friend doesn't? Because she won't live long?

And we should fix her somehow? Why bother?
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:47 PM   #26
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But it's not just about how long you live. It's also about during life itself. How many people during this Covid era who lost jobs or hours are suffering now because they have no savings to get them to the other side after vaccinations? Perhaps they now know why it's smart to at least have a 6 to 10 month cushion of savings.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:54 PM   #27
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People who want you to tell them the secret never want to hear a story that starts with "well, about 30 years ago, I . . . ." They want the secret that will allow them to bypass those 30 years.
Precisely. It started with a seed, then we watered it everyday, eventually it blossomed, and grew into something that keeps us outta the heat and in the shade... at least I think that's where that phrase

"got it made in the shade" came from!

Someone planted a seed...etc etc.

What floors me is the one's who seemingly do everything right and catch cancer in their 30s... and these other knuckleheads have had their heads in the sand. Life...aint....fair!
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:13 PM   #28
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Probably not. More likely, they are starting GoFundMes and hoping for UBI.

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Perhaps they now know why it's smart to at least have a 6 to 10 month cushion of savings.
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:49 PM   #29
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I have a public high school education, B student. I went to work and invested in my business and self and ended up FIRED at age 50. I live a modest lifestyle, but very comfortable. Like most on this site.


Many people come to me looking for a magic bullet to get there. I tell them to save 30% of their income for 30 years and invest it. Doesn't matter what your income is, you'll have enough to be independent at your current income level.


Not a one has taken me up on it. Discipline is #1 and I haven't met anyone who has it, even though many are earning more than I ever did.


I am happy with what I have and can't worry about others. I gave up on trying to help. I wish everyone well, but I can't do it for them.
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:05 AM   #30
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The grasshopper plays, works when he must, has a grand time, and doesn't worry too much about tomorrow because he's just not wired that way. Either it'll be winter and he'll be dead anyway, or he'll figure out some solution in the nick of time.

The ant works hard and saves, because she's wired to fret about "What if....When I'm old..." She may not have as much fun as the grasshopper, but that's OK because she's more interested in security.

And that's how I see the people posting, or the ones we're posting about, in this thread.
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:48 PM   #31
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To quote Mike Tyson: "If I knew i was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself"
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:18 PM   #32
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Tyson is the last person I'd expect to say that. I doubt self-care is in his vocabulary!

The quote is usually attributed to George Burns, who probably got it from his grandfather.

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To quote Mike Tyson: "If I knew i was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself"
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:35 PM   #33
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Back when I started my first job out of college, I also didn't think I'd live to see retirement. To me, age 50+ was incredibly old, incredibly far away, and I just couldn't visualize myself being that old. I was somewhat of a thrill seeker, and figured I'd kill myself through some auto, diving, hiking, or air accident. 2 years later, I started my second job out of college, and started saving enough to get the company match. I became a LBYM'r and increased my savings rate at every opportunity. You can try to lead the horse to water, but you may not get him or her there.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:34 AM   #34
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I see this from co-workers as well, they just don't care about saving for retirement, "I'll think about that when it happens" is the response I get from them about. Another one of my favorite quotes is "I'm going to have to work until I die".

At 55, I really look forward to my retirement days coming up in the near future, and these poor (literally) folks have nothing but work in their future.,,,so sad !
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:02 AM   #35
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In my entire life I only knew one person who was reasonably certain that she'd never see 65 because of genetics. She was right. The irony was, she still had plenty of money when she passed and could have lived a much more luxurious existence but she didn't care about that stuff.

All the others didn't have any excuse for not saving and are now regretting it.

Back in the early 90s, I worked with a guy that told me he he was cashing out his retirement funds from a job he previously had. I tried to talk him out of it. His response was, all the guys in my family die in their 50s, I don't think I'll need it. He's 66 yrs old now, I talked with him a few months ago, he complained about not having enough money living on SS and his wife's small pension. He ask how my wife and I were doing, I said, " Rick you remember my wife and I always saved and invested, were doing well." I didn't tell him we were multi (more than 1) Millionaires.
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:36 AM   #36
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This year has taught me well that people have an unbelievable variety of beliefs about their lives and the future and many have no interest in facts at all. How they survive with their decision making amazes me.
+1. It's absolutely mind boggling.

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We saved way more than 10% of our earnings over 30 years of work. I'd say more like 30%, sometimes more. We took vacations, ate out, were socially active, had a nice house...nothing extravagant. No one knows how long they will live. Everything in life is a risk of some sort. "Live below your means" is a mantra on this forum. This philosophy has worked for most of us
Pretty much our story too. Enjoying the ability to blow that dough!
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:31 AM   #37
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Old 12-03-2020, 09:49 AM   #38
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"Why is the dog howling?"

"He's sittin' on a cocklebur."

"Why doesn't he get off the cocklebur?"

"He'd ruther holler."


That’s about sums it up. The few friends I have who are rich never needed or wanted my advice. Occasionally, other friends ask me money-related questions. I give my best advice or buy them a relevant book, because I love them, but they consistently keep sitting on the cocklebur. Oh well, they are each stronger at things that I “should” be better at.
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Old 12-03-2020, 10:30 AM   #39
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I think there are a variety of reasons why people do not save or invest for their future. One of the biggest reasons, at least how I see it, and I think someone already hit on it, is when they realize how long it will take, they either become disinterested or just never get started or both.

Investing and compound interest takes time to work its magic and saving money isn't easy and a lot of people just can't get interested in that. They live in the now.
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Old 12-03-2020, 10:44 AM   #40
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And, when you listen.....or pretend to listen...to what some of them consider important......it's like the song says, "I smile and wave".
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