You can bring a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink

[mystang52]

I've given unsolicited financial advice 3 times. One to each of my kids after they got their first job after college.
The 3rd time was at a meeting with my staff at one employer. I don't remember the context, but it was nothing more than a general suggestion to LBYM, and to start automatic payroll deduction -in any small amount - for US Savings Bonds. No one followed up my suggestion.
Unless I'm asked, I stay mum on this topic.

ETA: Both of my kids did heed my suggestions.

[jollystomper]

Investing and saving for the long run is not most peoples idea of "fun", or at least compared to having a good time. It does not provide instant gratification.

I have posted here before about a co-worker who let me give her feedback on her finances, as she said she could not figure out how to save. Her response to me suggesting how much she could save by cutting back or eliminating things like lottery tickets, bar/happy hour drinking, smoking, and partying was "but then I won't have any fun!"

Also, more people these days, in my opinion, seek "guarantees" instead of "opportunities". "Opportunities" give you a chance, do not guarantee success - but can move you closer. That is too uncertain for many people, who will not try without a "guarantee". Even investing in the market - I have had folks say to me things like "It is too risky, it goes down a lot". They want that growth without it ever going down.

As for not living that long as the OP mentioned... I can understand that, do a degree. I believe we are bombarded with more negativity today than ever, to the point where one has to choose to avoid it. It is like when I grew up in a bad neighborhood, there were many reminders of how bad life was My parents had to fight to show their children that there was more to life.

One of the downsides of technology is that it has made it easier to bring all the bad news across the world to us, at even younger ages, and few work to put things in perspective.Younger people who have grown up under all that, particularly since the late 1990s, can easily fall into the "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we will die" attitude.

[pb4uski]

I'm late to the thread and haven't read anything other than the OP, but the OP and explain to the friend that money/wealth gives one choices... for example to defer SS for a higher payout if you wish to, or have more reliable transportation, or live in a better/safer/more convenient area, or retire when their physical abilities decline or their BS bucket is full.

Lack of wealth limits your choices... people end up taking SS at 62, or puttig up with that unreliable care or paying for expensive repairs to a car that really shoud be traded, or living in an unsafe area or continuing to work in a toxic workplace or when it is physically difficult... they have no other choice.

Saving and investing gives you FU money.

[REWahoo]

This reminds me of a conversation I overheard at the table next to us a couple of years ago while DW and I were eating lunch. There were four guys sitting there, all looked to be in their 20's or 30's. They appeared to be auto mechanics as they were all wearing work shirts with the name of a nearby car dealership.

They were discussing their company 401k plan and how they weren't going to participate even though the company had some sort of a match. The reasoning a couple of them gave was they couldn't afford to give up anything from their paycheck and it was hard to get your money out if you needed it, etc.

One of the youngest spoke up and said he was going to participate. His dad had talked him into it so he could get the company match. I thought, good, at least one of them 'gets it'!

Then he went on to say his dad told him it was a savings account so he could withdraw it after five years (vesting?) and use the company's money to help him buy a new truck.

[pb4uski]

^^^^ Attitudes like theirs is a clear and not-so-present danger to the republic.

[JP.mpls]

Mystang,
When I got my first job in engineering my boss sat me down, and recommended that I put 10% of each check into my 401k, and it would also get matched 4% by the company. I acted on his recommendation.
I wasn't used to making money, so I never missed it.

When I got my first raise, he recommended putting half into the 401k, and to keep doing this until I was investing at least 15%, plus the company match.

I had my wife do the same.

We were easily ready to FIRE in our mid 50s with a paid off house. Just working stiffs with a LBYM lifestyle.

It strangely didn't really feel like a sacrifice.

I think it pays off double, because it gives you confidence and some security as an older worker in your 50s. That is a big deal in our current society. You also get to spend it in retirement.

I'm hanging out in the nice weather down in Florida for the winter. It isn't a bad lifestyle.

Take care, JP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystang52 I've given unsolicited financial advice 3 times. One to each of my kids after they got their first job after college. The 3rd time was at a meeting with my staff at one employer. I don't remember the context, but it was nothing more than a general suggestion to LBYM, and to start automatic payroll deduction -in any small amount - for US Savings Bonds. No one followed up my suggestion. Unless I'm asked, I stay mum on this topic. ETA: Both of my kids did heed my suggestions.

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo This reminds me of a conversation I overheard at the table next to us a couple of years ago while DW and I were eating lunch. There were four guys sitting there, all looked to be in their 20's or 30's. They appeared to be auto mechanics as they were all wearing work shirts with the name of a nearby car dealership. They were discussing their company 401k plan and how they weren't going to participate even though the company had some sort of a match. The reasoning a couple of them gave was they couldn't afford to give up anything from their paycheck and it was hard to get your money out if you needed it, etc. One of the youngest spoke up and said he was going to participate. His dad had talked him into it so he could get the company match. I thought, good, at least one of them 'gets it'! Then he went on to say his dad told him it was a savings account so he could withdraw it after five years (vesting?) and use the company's money to help him buy a new truck.

I guess for those of us that have been around long enough, we have similar stories... Me too!

My FIL, who worked for the same mega corp as I did, told me very early on, to put the max amount in the company's 401k plan and not to touch it.... It was a 100% match for the first 6% of my salary. He really didn't need to tell me since I had already signed up (although I never told him that I was already in the plan. Anyway, money was a little tight for a few years but after a while I never missed the deductions. Now I'm retired and still haven't really touched it.

Well he told me to never touch it!


Honestly, it's been the best financial investment I've ever made... By far!

[Gumby]

I cringe when I read about people who won't even put enough in to get the company match. It's free money! In all my years of working, I never had a 401k company match, but I still maxed out my contributions. It kills me to think of how much more money I would have now if I had had a match. And these guys are not taking it.

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby I cringe when I read about people who won't even put enough in to get the company match. It's free money!

Some financial things may be debatable in many cases... But not that one from my POV. Even if money is tight at first, suck it up!

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP.mpls When I got my first raise, he recommended putting half into the 401k, and to keep doing this until I was investing at least 15%, plus the company match.

Similar story:
While I was in the Air Force, I naturally had many friends who were pilots. Most just treated their flight pay the same as their basic pay, and they had nice cars, boats, etc.

But one friend told me that when he graduated from flight school he realized that any unforeseen physical problem could knock him off flying status at a moment's notice, so it was a gift. He put 100% of his flight pay into a separate account and never touched it -- that was his emergency fund.

Not being a pilot, that wasn't an option for me, but I did the next best thing by separating out half of every pay raise. Over the years, little things like that can sure add up!

[Music Lover]

I've told this story before. A friend built a house about 12-13 years ago and everything cost more than he thought. When it was done he had a 30-year mortgage at age 48 that was so high that he had to occasionally dip into savings just to meet monthly payments. He was losing sleep and as he approached retirement age (55 govt) he realized that he could not retire and still make the mortgage payments.

He sold the house for a bit of a profit and moved to an apartment. You think that he'd be happy to be debt free but that lasted 6 months. He then left work early taking both an age and time of service penalty and ended up with 80% of a 60% pension. But wait, there's more. He sold a paid off 8-year old Toyota Rav with 130,000 kms on it (80k miles) where they had just replaced the engine for free under warranty and replaced it with a Jaguar SUV under lease that would have costed about $80k after the down payment, lease payments, and residual value were done.

And he wasn't done yet...he took the Jaguar in for service a year later and upgraded to a more expensive model that was about $30k more.

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby I cringe when I read about people who won't even put enough in to get the company match. It's free money! In all my years of working, I never had a 401k company match, but I still maxed out my contributions. It kills me to think of how much more money I would have now if I had had a match. And these guys are not taking it.

Isn't that the truth. These folks don't know what they've got 'till its gone. And maybe not even then.

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Lover I've told this story before. A friend built a house about 12-13 years ago and everything cost more than he thought. When it was done he had a 30-year mortgage at age 48 that was so high that he had to occasionally dip into savings just to meet monthly payments. He was losing sleep and as he approached retirement age (55 govt) he realized that he could not retire and still make the mortgage payments. He sold the house for a bit of a profit and moved to an apartment. You think that he'd be happy to be debt free but that lasted 6 months. He then left work early taking both an age and time of service penalty and ended up with 80% of a 60% pension. But wait, there's more. He sold a paid off 8-year old Toyota Rav with 130,000 kms on it (80k miles) where they had just replaced the engine for free under warranty and replaced it with a Jaguar SUV under lease that would have costed about $80k after the down payment, lease payments, and residual value were done. And he wasn't done yet...he took the Jaguar in for service a year later and upgraded to a more expensive model that was about $30k more.

Let me guess. He worked as a budget advisor to the country's leadership. Right?

[imnontrad]

My grandmother died while in her 50's and as soon as my mother reached that age, she "lived" as if she was going to die any minute. My mother passed away the month before she would have been 89.
However, she also lived frugally and invested. So she never had to worry about paying the bills.


If it makes you feel any better, I had a co-worker who, like myself, was in her mid 50's. However, she had been a big smoker in the past and looked a lot older than I did. One day at work, the subject of retirement came up and she remarked, "I guess I should start saving for retirement some day". I kept my mouth shut but inside I was screaming DUHHHHHHHH. I think the only thing that is going to save her from a miserable long retirement is that she will get cancer and die earlier - totally penniless.

[Gearhead Jim]

Saving for retirement is like planting a tree-

The best time to do it is 20 years ago, the second best time is today.

[court6449]

I am now in my late 30s, but hold a pretty high position at MegaCorp and live and have always lived well below my means, just the same as many of you on this forum. What I find spectacular/confusing is the confusion from my peers, especially when I was younger about why? Why wouldn’t I buy more? I drive a paid for Nissan and they drive the Tesla’s and Mercedes with high payments. I live in a modest house and I literally just witnessed someone that was 4 years off of paying off their current mortgage in a smaller home, move to a giant house and take on another mortgage in their 50s. That, I cannot even comprehend because it is so stupid to me. I tend to think it all comes down to what’s important for a person; I find a lot of us on this forum think well ahead and tend to be pretty risk averse. Some folks simply constantly in the moment (or something like that)

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by court6449 Some folks simply constantly in the moment (or something like that)

"You can bring a horse to water, but have you ever smelled a wet horse?"

[HawkOwl]

Sometimes they listen (or, um, drink ��).

One of my more gratifying moments was when someone I supervised thanked me, upon her retirement, for having advised her when she was hired to put 10% of her salary into a 401k and up it by whatever raise she got each year. She wasn’t inclined to do it, and honestly I didn’t know until this conversation that she had followed through. But she did, and she said that that decision allowed her to retire early. ��

[Markola]

Quote:

Originally Posted by court6449 I live in a modest house and I literally just witnessed someone that was 4 years off of paying off their current mortgage in a smaller home, move to a giant house and take on another mortgage in their 50s. That, I cannot even comprehend because it is so stupid to me.

Congrats on your habits. Your future self is going to be very grateful.

As for your coworker, I can’t know for sure, of course, but I’ve read that there is a certain type of individual who thinks that paying off debt is what motivates them to perform, so they are lost without the external pressure. Most here are more motivated to minimize the debt and to pay it off but, then, we’re unusual.

[Rianne]

I think it's subliminal instant gratification. A diabetic eyeing a hot fudge sundae covered in walnuts with mountains of whipped cream. Taking what we want regardless of the consequences. I look at travel magazines, happy faces dressed in Armani clothes driving a Beamer across a mountain range with the sunset in the distance. It really is manipulation to sell products or a lifestyle.

We used to drive around in Inverness, IL, a wealthy community. Never saw kids playing in the streets, lawns of perfection, each mansion outdoing the next with Christmas decorations. I thought how sad. Made me think of the movie "Stepford Wives" the original. It really depends on what your dream of happiness is. I like thinking of success like "The Millionaire Next Door" The unassuming millionaire living an average life knowing he could buy a yacht and thinks "Nahhhh"