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Old 05-06-2018, 03:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by explanade View Post
There's age discrimination in Silicon Valley too, or at least several people have made such allegations.

...

On the early retirement question, you don't see too many silver-haired employees, especially among the rank and file. Every year they can hire new graduates and there are a lot of stories of older employees being edged out when their department is suddenly filled with twenty somethings.

There is no such thing as seniority so people often leave rather than wait until they're displaced.
I never really saw age discrimination, it was more that about the amount of energy required and how it got harder to maintain. Before I left I had a talk with a few younger coworkers about how they needed to be aware of that. I hope I opened a few eyes.
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Old 05-06-2018, 05:04 PM   #22
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If you are male and retire on a shoestring you had better have some other powerful attractants or you may have seen your last naked woman.

Doesn't sound really good to me.

Ha
There are no financially independent women any more, of the type who could care less about the size of his nestegg and both willing and able to pay their own way?

I guess ER Forum members are better off financially than most because I just don't see that reflected in the posts from single retired women here.
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Old 05-06-2018, 06:04 PM   #23
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If you are male and retire on a shoestring you had better have some other powerful attractants or you may have seen your last naked woman.

Doesn't sound really good to me.

Ha
Truth
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:17 PM   #24
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I never really saw age discrimination, it was more that about the amount of energy required and how it got harder to maintain. Before I left I had a talk with a few younger coworkers about how they needed to be aware of that. I hope I opened a few eyes.
Not sure when you left, mpeirce. They have new and innovative ways of "getting younger." Yes, that phrase was accidentally used by a senior manager at Megacorp.

Anyway, I see it. Since many megacorps are self insured, I think the savings in HC costs are part of the reason.

I do agree, however, as we age the older workers don't care to keep up anymore with the madness. I'm guilty as charged. And I actually am hoping to get let go now that I've discussed retirement with management. I'd at least get some severance.
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:53 AM   #25
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Doesn't anyone remember us boomers back in the hippie days?

We were all going to live off the land, share everything, barter and live in tents or a warmly decorated abandoned bus out in the country. We were NEVER going to jump for the man.

Reality set in (Dad cut off the funding) and we became the biggest capitalists/materialists the world has ever known.

Give these kids a little time......
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:28 AM   #26
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I didn't have any real trouble with the article's contents or the young people it described. I agree with "Diana" that freedom from work is worth pursing and worth sacrificing many of the traditional choices (especially children). And I endorse the concluding T-shirt slogan remark: “Work is modern-day serfdom, and the only rebellion is your bank account.”

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Plus, he self describes as a "shitty coder" but in retirement will "work pro bono for a nonprofit." !! No thanks, the homeless don't need your crappy muffin tops! (Seinfeld reference).
It's a bit difficult to understand exactly what he meant by that self-reference, but perhaps (?) he was describing the relatively menial nature of his employment status rather than his skill set.

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I worked most of my career in the nonprofit world and would never accept "shitty work", whether free or otherwise.
I don't want to stereotype anyone, but my own experience with the nonprofit world - which, while less than yours, is still reasonably extensive - suggests that poor-quality work (by both paid employees and volunteers) is not uncommon. Of course the for-profit world is also not immune from that problem, but it does tend to have substantially more accountability.

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If you are male and retire on a shoestring you had better have some other powerful attractants or you may have seen your last naked woman.
If you're suggesting that all women are heartless sexual mercenaries who trade access for cash, I would have to respectfully disagree.
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Old 05-07-2018, 06:34 AM   #27
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I agree with "Diana" that freedom from work is worth pursing and worth sacrificing many of the traditional choices (especially children).
Wow really?

The shakers tried that and look where they ended up.
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Old 05-07-2018, 06:50 AM   #28
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If you are male and retire on a shoestring you had better have some other powerful attractants or you may have seen your last naked woman.

Doesn't sound really good to me.

Ha
Too funny! Almost lost my morning coffee all over the keyboard.

Better get ready for this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=EBhjpFngjcM
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:06 AM   #29
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I don't know if a guy of meager means has to be lonely, but it surely limits his choices.

It's better to have options, not just in this matter but in other aspects in life. Like being able to buy more toys, if you happen to change your mind and want to. Can afford to travel, but you don't want to, etc...
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:08 AM   #30
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Wow really?

The shakers tried that and look where they ended up.
I don't know much about Shakerism: it's a foreign religious movement, not practiced outside of the USA (and, centuries ago, in England). But if I understand correctly, they believe(d) in celibacy and renunciation of all 'lustful gratifications'". I don't subscribe to that, as I enjoy lustful gratifications.

On the issue of children, surely there's no real question that they adversely affect parents' finances. The decision whether or no to incur that loss is, of course, a personal decision. But overall, human population is steadily increasing; there's no need to worry about that.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:22 AM   #31
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A typical, yet at times frustrating, article on a supposed trend in silicon valley and elsewhere.

https://thehustle.co/how-to-retire-e...o-retire-early

The usual stuff here (including an incorrect description of the "4% Rule"); but look at "Kevin"'s budget -- no health insurance, nothing for clothing, no taxes (?). And terrible diet. Plus, he self describes as a "shitty coder" but in retirement will "work pro bono for a nonprofit." !! No thanks, the homeless don't need your crappy muffin tops! (Seinfeld reference). I worked most of my career in the nonprofit world and would never accept "shitty work", whether free or otherwise. Arghh...

Also, the young woman who makes a $130K salary and saves most of it for FIRE at age 32, while bemoaning the fact that her father will never be able to retire. Major moral disconnect here. If he hadn't had a child (you!) perhaps he could retire. But, hey, not your problem is it? Arghh...

And, only $800K in one case and $1M in another as a goal to fund what could be 70 years of retirement. Yes, 8% annual portfolio growth per year until you're 32, then you're golden....

Could be some rude awakenings in store.

Sorry for the rant; but this one rankled a bit, perhaps unfairly so.

-BB
It is not her problem to provide her father a retirement. He chose to have her, therefore it was his job and obligation to raise her to adulthood. He signed up for that. Just as if she has a child, it is her obligation to do the same. She is very smart in that she doesnt want to end up like how he has ended up, and is making choices to to avoid that.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:41 AM   #32
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There are no financially independent women any more, of the type who could care less about the size of his nestegg and both willing and able to pay their own way?

I guess ER Forum members are better off financially than most because I just don't see that reflected in the posts from single retired women here.
I don't agree with Ha's comment either, though it made me laugh out loud. That's a typical reaction of mine to many of Ha's responses - to laugh spontaneously, while not actually agreeing with the sentiment. For this reason alone, I hope Ha sticks around here for many, many moons.

I agree with your point W2R, that there are financially independent women, who are not looking to be supported, or to have anything other than modest amounts of money spent on them. As well as that, I think there's a match for almost any type of person. If a fellow is financially independent, but living on a very modest income, surely there are also women out there who are themselves of very modest means, yet independent, and not looking for a guy to pay their way?

I get that the more money you have, the more options you have. However, as your money supply goes down, I don't think that the options go to zero, unless your personal situation is particularly dire. Situations involving cardboard boxes and bridges would represent the point at which things get just a little awkward
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:35 AM   #33
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I don't know much about Shakerism: it's a foreign religious movement, not practiced outside of the USA (and, centuries ago, in England). But if I understand correctly, they believe(d) in celibacy and renunciation of all 'lustful gratifications'". I don't subscribe to that, as I enjoy lustful gratifications.

On the issue of children, surely there's no real question that they adversely affect parents' finances. The decision whether or no to incur that loss is, of course, a personal decision. But overall, human population is steadily increasing; there's no need to worry about that.
The shakers had no children and are no longer around. They weren't a sustainable culture.

I'd certainly sacrifice my early retirement to provide for my kids. FIRE is a luxury item to me. Kids aren't. To me kids are pretty much what it's all about.

If you differ, that's fine.
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Old 05-07-2018, 01:05 PM   #34
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I don't see the point of focusing on retiring so young, when surely having an enjoyable career to at least age 50 adds a valuable component to one's life experience. Sure, plan for the possibility that you may need to retire early so save and LBYM while young, but focus on creating an enjoyable career with decent longevity prospects. Also, more likely for some unknown to occur if you retire very young (high inflation, health problems, geopolitical crises) so less possibility of confidence in financials. I happily retired at 55 due to stress at the end of my career but can't imagine not having those years in the work force.
I'm one of the millennials this article is talking about. Early 20s, working in IT, bought a house, no debt other than my mortgage, saving a significant percentage of my income, reading early retirement blogs and forum posts everyday.

I actually really enjoy my job, I just don't want to need a job. I want the freedom, flexibility, and security that FIRE allows. I'm a simple man with simple interests (videogames and motorcycles), so I don't really need or want much. I don't feel like I'm giving anything up, because I already have everything I really want, and I grew up with much less.

I recognize I'm extremely privileged to be in this position, so I'm just trying to make the most of it. I grew up poor (public housing, food stamps, etc), so that's probably a big factor why I chose pursue FIRE. I also just really like efficiency and optimization, which is probably why I went into tech in the first place
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Old 05-07-2018, 01:44 PM   #35
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I look back on my career and wish I'd interacted more with the people who I didn't necessarily click with but were present and friendly. Once retired, you interact with people that you have common interests with which is fun, but you can learn so much from interacting with people with different view points. Enjoy working! For as long as you can stand it .
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:33 PM   #36
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Eh, most of the complaints about the article are actually about the author, not the subjects. Spend a little time online with those "young tech workers" and you hear a much more measured response. The author just chose the particularly click-baity snippets.

I disagree that living cheap "isn't really living". Otherwise my parents have been "not really living" for a long time! Frankly, the most important things in life don't cost me much - laughing and talking with loved ones can be as cheap as a deck of cards and a bottle of wine. Or in our case, our old D&D books and a case of Mountain Dew.
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:49 PM   #37
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Eh, most of the complaints about the article are actually about the author, not the subjects. Spend a little time online with those "young tech workers" and you hear a much more measured response. The author just chose the particularly click-baity snippets.

I disagree that living cheap "isn't really living". Otherwise my parents have been "not really living" for a long time! Frankly, the most important things in life don't cost me much - laughing and talking with loved ones can be as cheap as a deck of cards and a bottle of wine. Or in our case, our old D&D books and a case of Mountain Dew.
What are D&D books? (I know the wine part...)
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:54 PM   #38
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Living cheap is okay with me as long as I have enough for the basics like good value cars, medical and dental care, and a nice place to live. DH and I grew up blue collar so we're pretty happy with the life we have now. I don't really want to do anything super expensive like go on a polar expedition or mountain climbing in Nepal in retirement. We go out most days, sometimes to the theater or symphony if I can get some cheap tickets otherwise it is hiking or going out for drinks and dancing at a dive bar with live music and it is all fun times. Especially the not having to work for a living part.
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:04 PM   #39
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What are D&D books?
Dungeons and Dragons? Either that, or it could be some weird kind of sex thing that I think I'd rather not know about
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:33 PM   #40
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There are no financially independent women any more, of the type who could care less about the size of his nestegg and both willing and able to pay their own way?

I guess ER Forum members are better off financially than most because I just don't see that reflected in the posts from single retired women here.
I am pretty sure that you understand that is not what I mean, but anyway, everyone has his or her own read on social reality.

Ha
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