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Old 05-07-2018, 04:04 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
I don't agree with Ha's comment either, though it made me laugh out loud. That's a typical reaction of mine to many of Ha's responses - to laugh spontaneously, while not actually agreeing with the sentiment. For this reason alone, I hope Ha sticks around here for many, many moons.

I agree with your point W2R, that there are financially independent women, who are not looking to be supported, or to have anything other than modest amounts of money spent on them. As well as that, I think there's a match for almost any type of person. If a fellow is financially independent, but living on a very modest income, surely there are also women out there who are themselves of very modest means, yet independent, and not looking for a guy to pay their way?

I get that the more money you have, the more options you have. However, as your money supply goes down, I don't think that the options go to zero, unless your personal situation is particularly dire. Situations involving cardboard boxes and bridges would represent the point at which things get just a little awkward
I should comment on this. BTW, thanks for the compliment!

I am not talking about being supported, in reality how many women are likely to find someone who wants to support them anyway? But a well accepted finding in sociology is that women not infrequently like to marry up. That is one thing that the Cinderella story is about. And if we can take marriage preferences for dating preferences, it might indicate that many women might prefer being swiped right by a high status man than one of lower status. Of course, this cannot always be true, but it is likely the way to bet absent other strong information.

More power to all the rich, self supporting women in this board! My own girlfriend also doesn't need any one's support, and she definitely doesn't need mine. If she wanted to she could dump me and find someone much better off and better looking too.. Still, I am within her acceptable limits, and it is my guess from a lifetime of keeping my eyes open, that maybe many women have perhaps unarticulated acceptable limits, which will be bounded on the low end and perhaps totally open above.

Suzanne Venker: My message for women -- 'Marrying down' is nothing to celebrate | Fox News

Ha
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:39 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Qwahzi View Post
I'm one of the millennials this article is talking about. Early 20s, working in IT, bought a house, no debt other than my mortgage, saving a significant percentage of my income, reading early retirement blogs and forum posts everyday.

I actually really enjoy my job, I just don't want to need a job. I want the freedom, flexibility, and security that FIRE allows. I'm a simple man with simple interests (videogames and motorcycles), so I don't really need or want much. I don't feel like I'm giving anything up, because I already have everything I really want, and I grew up with much less.

I recognize I'm extremely privileged to be in this position, so I'm just trying to make the most of it. I grew up poor (public housing, food stamps, etc), so that's probably a big factor why I chose pursue FIRE. I also just really like efficiency and optimization, which is probably why I went into tech in the first place
Qwahzi,

Welcome. Looking forward to some new young blood on this forum.
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Old 05-07-2018, 06:26 PM   #43
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A financially independent woman can be expected to seek a financially independent man. Although I suppose there must be some sugar mamas out there.

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Originally Posted by W2R View Post
There are no financially independent women any more, of the type who could care less about the size of his nestegg and both willing and able to pay their own way?

I guess ER Forum members are better off financially than most because I just don't see that reflected in the posts from single retired women here.
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Old 05-08-2018, 04:45 AM   #44
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I'd certainly sacrifice my early retirement to provide for my kids. FIRE is a luxury item to me. Kids aren't. To me kids are pretty much what it's all about.
Here is your forum!

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I look back on my career and wish I'd interacted more with the people who I didn't necessarily click with but were present and friendly. Once retired, you interact with people that you have common interests with which is fun, but you can learn so much from interacting with people with different view points.
I agree, except that you don't need paid employment to bring you into contact with people of different backgrounds, ages, races, and perspectives. Volunteering and travel can both provide those opportunities.
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Old 05-08-2018, 05:11 AM   #45
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The shakers had no children and are no longer around. They weren't a sustainable culture.

I'd certainly sacrifice my early retirement to provide for my kids. FIRE is a luxury item to me. Kids aren't. To me kids are pretty much what it's all about.

If you differ, that's fine.
If the kids are lovable and you don't mind the job.

What if they're little monsters or you are fed up with your job but you have to keep working to finance living expenses for a larger family, including paying for their toys, like cell phones?
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Old 05-08-2018, 05:11 AM   #46
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I don't want to stereotype anyone, but my own experience with the nonprofit world - which, while less than yours, is still reasonably extensive - suggests that poor-quality work (by both paid employees and volunteers) is not uncommon. Of course the for-profit world is also not immune from that problem, but it does tend to have substantially more accountability.
I think that lack of accountability mechanisms might be more related to enterprise size rather than economic orientation (profit vs. nonprofit). I have worked for middle-to-large size nonprofits and accountability was critical -- especially when financial resources are more limited. You cannot afford to have poor quality labor. My experience has been that typical accountability mechanisms are in place in both types.

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Old 05-08-2018, 05:15 AM   #47
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It is not her problem to provide her father a retirement. He chose to have her, therefore it was his job and obligation to raise her to adulthood. He signed up for that. Just as if she has a child, it is her obligation to do the same. She is very smart in that she doesnt want to end up like how he has ended up, and is making choices to to avoid that.
I could not disagree more. It's what makes families different from other kinds of social entities. In any case, I believe that she indicated in the article that his predicament was partly due to the vagaries of the economy during his work life.

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Old 05-08-2018, 07:34 AM   #48
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I could not disagree more. It's what makes families different from other kinds of social entities. In any case, I believe that she indicated in the article that his predicament was partly due to the vagaries of the economy during his work life.

-BB
Agree to disagree. I am with carnivalday.
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:30 AM   #49
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Dungeons and Dragons?
Exactly. We're old-school geeks.
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:50 AM   #50
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Agree to disagree. I am with carnivalday.
+1
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:30 PM   #51
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I think it's great that young people have picked up the concept of saving and focusing their spend instead of spending mindlessly. I regret essentially throwing away a lot of my earnings in my 20's. (What saved me and got me back on track was some key job opportunities and the fairly frugal gf now wife.)
My only caveat for the FIRE extreme crowd in their 20's and 30's is that their lives are still evolving which will correspondingly evolve their likes/dislikes, goals, interests, etc and ideally you don't want money to be a limiting factor.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:38 AM   #52
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One of the reddit posts referenced in a subcomment of this article hits on a major point that I think epitomizes a philisophical point reached (sometimes too late) by some of the extreme FIRE by 35 types mentioned in this article:

"I built my savings but never built my life...."

I always saved (20-30%)... but not to an extreme. I'm now 36, and recognize that in my early 30's I had a choice to double down my savings (to retire a few years earlier) or to start enjoying my life a little more for my 30's and 40's. I'm glad that instead of bumping my savings up to 50% instead I chose to expand my inner circle, cut my hours from 60 to 40 and travel and see the world. I'm still on track to FIRE, but live my life along the way. I'd rather look back and appreciate my 30's and 40's than regret it while getting to FIRE 5 years earlier.

I think if making money is your goal... then you'll be sadly disappointing when you reach the end of that goal and have to spend it down slowly... the pile of money should be a means to an end. The end is the part you need to define and keep as the goal. Which is living. Not the getting there part. If that makes sense.
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:40 PM   #53
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Plus, he self describes as a "shitty coder" but in retirement will "work pro bono for a nonprofit." !! No thanks, the homeless don't need your crappy muffin tops! (Seinfeld reference). I worked most of my career in the nonprofit world and would never accept "shitty work", whether free or otherwise. Arghh...
A huge +1 to that

As a former computer lab teacher I was always confronted by people who wanted to donate old (5+) years equipment to our school. They thought they were doing us a favor, but the cost of keeping that equipment functioning reliably in the class room - very important in a room with 26-30 young teens - was very high. Either the district paid it in wages to a tech guy, or I paid it in all the hours of unpaid overtime I worked to keep the things working properly.

Ultimately, the district realized that 'free' old computers were the most expensive ones they owned.
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