Young tech workers become obsessed with FIRE

[Milton]

I didn't have any real trouble with the article's contents or the young people it described. I agree with "Diana" that freedom from work is worth pursing and worth sacrificing many of the traditional choices (especially children). And I endorse the concluding [-]T-shirt slogan[/-] remark: “Work is modern-day serfdom, and the only rebellion is your bank account.”

Plus, he self describes as a "shitty coder" but in retirement will "work pro bono for a nonprofit." !! No thanks, the homeless don't need your crappy muffin tops! (Seinfeld reference).

It's a bit difficult to understand exactly what he meant by that self-reference, but perhaps (?) he was describing the relatively menial nature of his employment status rather than his skill set.

I worked most of my career in the nonprofit world and would never accept "shitty work", whether free or otherwise.

I don't want to stereotype anyone, but my own experience with the nonprofit world - which, while less than yours, is still reasonably extensive - suggests that poor-quality work (by both paid employees and volunteers) is not uncommon. Of course the for-profit world is also not immune from that problem, but it does tend to have substantially more accountability.

If you are male and retire on a shoestring you had better have some other powerful attractants or you may have seen your last naked woman.

If you're suggesting that all women are heartless sexual mercenaries who trade access for cash, I would have to respectfully disagree.

 

[mpeirce]

I agree with "Diana" that freedom from work is worth pursing and worth sacrificing many of the traditional choices (especially children).

Wow really?

The shakers tried that and look where they ended up.

 

[zedd]

If you are male and retire on a shoestring you had better have some other powerful attractants or you may have seen your last naked woman.

Doesn't sound really good to me.

Ha

Too funny! Almost lost my morning coffee all over the keyboard.

Better get ready for this guy

 

[NW-Bound]

I don't know if a guy of meager means has to be lonely, but it surely limits his choices.

It's better to have options, not just in this matter but in other aspects in life. Like being able to buy more toys, if you happen to change your mind and want to. Can afford to travel, but you don't want to, etc...

 

[Milton]

Wow really?

The shakers tried that and look where they ended up.

I don't know much about Shakerism: it's a foreign religious movement, not practiced outside of the USA (and, centuries ago, in England). But if I understand correctly, they believe(d) in celibacy and renunciation of all 'lustful gratifications'". I don't subscribe to that, as I enjoy lustful gratifications.

On the issue of children, surely there's no real question that they adversely affect parents' finances. The decision whether or no to incur that loss is, of course, a personal decision. But overall, human population is steadily increasing; there's no need to worry about that.

 

[carnivalday]

A typical, yet at times frustrating, article on a supposed trend in silicon valley and elsewhere.

https://thehustle.co/how-to-retire-early?utm_source=sunday&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5%2F6%20-%20retire&utm_content=how-to-retire-early

The usual stuff here (including an incorrect description of the "4% Rule"); but look at "Kevin"'s budget -- no health insurance, nothing for clothing, no taxes (?). And terrible diet. Plus, he self describes as a "shitty coder" but in retirement will "work pro bono for a nonprofit." !! No thanks, the homeless don't need your crappy muffin tops! (Seinfeld reference). I worked most of my career in the nonprofit world and would never accept "shitty work", whether free or otherwise. Arghh...

Also, the young woman who makes a $130K salary and saves most of it for FIRE at age 32, while bemoaning the fact that her father will never be able to retire. Major moral disconnect here. If he hadn't had a child (you!) perhaps he could retire. But, hey, not your problem is it? Arghh...

And, only $800K in one case and $1M in another as a goal to fund what could be 70 years of retirement. Yes, 8% annual portfolio growth per year until you're 32, then you're golden....

Could be some rude awakenings in store.

Sorry for the rant; but this one rankled a bit, perhaps unfairly so.

-BB

It is not her problem to provide her father a retirement. He chose to have her, therefore it was his job and obligation to raise her to adulthood. He signed up for that. Just as if she has a child, it is her obligation to do the same. She is very smart in that she doesnt want to end up like how he has ended up, and is making choices to to avoid that.

 

[Major Tom]

There are no financially independent women any more, of the type who could care less about the size of his nestegg and both willing and able to pay their own way?

I guess ER Forum members are better off financially than most because I just don't see that reflected in the posts from single retired women here.

I don't agree with Ha's comment either, though it made me laugh out loud. That's a typical reaction of mine to many of Ha's responses - to laugh spontaneously, while not actually agreeing with the sentiment. For this reason alone, I hope Ha sticks around here for many, many moons.

I agree with your point W2R, that there are financially independent women, who are not looking to be supported, or to have anything other than modest amounts of money spent on them. As well as that, I think there's a match for almost any type of person. If a fellow is financially independent, but living on a very modest income, surely there are also women out there who are themselves of very modest means, yet independent, and not looking for a guy to pay their way?

I get that the more money you have, the more options you have. However, as your money supply goes down, I don't think that the options go to zero, unless your personal situation is particularly dire. Situations involving cardboard boxes and bridges would represent the point at which things get just a little awkward

 

[mpeirce]

I don't know much about Shakerism: it's a foreign religious movement, not practiced outside of the USA (and, centuries ago, in England). But if I understand correctly, they believe(d) in celibacy and renunciation of all 'lustful gratifications'". I don't subscribe to that, as I enjoy lustful gratifications.

On the issue of children, surely there's no real question that they adversely affect parents' finances. The decision whether or no to incur that loss is, of course, a personal decision. But overall, human population is steadily increasing; there's no need to worry about that.

The shakers had no children and are no longer around. They weren't a sustainable culture.

I'd certainly sacrifice my early retirement to provide for my kids. FIRE is a luxury item to me. Kids aren't. To me kids are pretty much what it's all about.

If you differ, that's fine.

 

[Qwahzi]

I don't see the point of focusing on retiring so young, when surely having an enjoyable career to at least age 50 adds a valuable component to one's life experience. Sure, plan for the possibility that you may need to retire early so save and LBYM while young, but focus on creating an enjoyable career with decent longevity prospects. Also, more likely for some unknown to occur if you retire very young (high inflation, health problems, geopolitical crises) so less possibility of confidence in financials. I happily retired at 55 due to stress at the end of my career but can't imagine not having those years in the work force.

I'm one of the millennials this article is talking about. Early 20s, working in IT, bought a house, no debt other than my mortgage, saving a significant percentage of my income, reading early retirement blogs and forum posts everyday.

I actually really enjoy my job, I just don't want to need a job. I want the freedom, flexibility, and security that FIRE allows. I'm a simple man with simple interests (videogames and motorcycles), so I don't really need or want much. I don't feel like I'm giving anything up, because I already have everything I really want, and I grew up with much less.

I recognize I'm extremely privileged to be in this position, so I'm just trying to make the most of it. I grew up poor (public housing, food stamps, etc), so that's probably a big factor why I chose pursue FIRE. I also just really like efficiency and optimization, which is probably why I went into tech in the first place

 

[4legsgood]

I look back on my career and wish I'd interacted more with the people who I didn't necessarily click with but were present and friendly. Once retired, you interact with people that you have common interests with which is fun, but you can learn so much from interacting with people with different view points. Enjoy working! For as long as you can stand it .

 

[Maenad]

Eh, most of the complaints about the article are actually about the author, not the subjects. Spend a little time online with those "young tech workers" and you hear a much more measured response. The author just chose the particularly click-baity snippets.

I disagree that living cheap "isn't really living". Otherwise my parents have been "not really living" for a long time! Frankly, the most important things in life don't cost me much - laughing and talking with loved ones can be as cheap as a deck of cards and a bottle of wine. Or in our case, our old D&D books and a case of Mountain Dew.

 

[aja8888]

Eh, most of the complaints about the article are actually about the author, not the subjects. Spend a little time online with those "young tech workers" and you hear a much more measured response. The author just chose the particularly click-baity snippets.

I disagree that living cheap "isn't really living". Otherwise my parents have been "not really living" for a long time! Frankly, the most important things in life don't cost me much - laughing and talking with loved ones can be as cheap as a deck of cards and a bottle of wine. Or in our case, our old D&D books and a case of Mountain Dew.

What are D&D books? (I know the wine part...)

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Living cheap is okay with me as long as I have enough for the basics like good value cars, medical and dental care, and a nice place to live. DH and I grew up blue collar so we're pretty happy with the life we have now. I don't really want to do anything super expensive like go on a polar expedition or mountain climbing in Nepal in retirement. We go out most days, sometimes to the theater or symphony if I can get some cheap tickets otherwise it is hiking or going out for drinks and dancing at a dive bar with live music and it is all fun times. Especially the not having to work for a living part.

 

[Major Tom]

What are D&D books?

Dungeons and Dragons? Either that, or it could be some weird kind of sex thing that I think I'd rather not know about

 

[haha]

There are no financially independent women any more, of the type who could care less about the size of his nestegg and both willing and able to pay their own way?

I guess ER Forum members are better off financially than most because I just don't see that reflected in the posts from single retired women here.

I am pretty sure that you understand that is not what I mean, but anyway, everyone has his or her own read on social reality.

Ha

 

[haha]

I don't agree with Ha's comment either, though it made me laugh out loud. That's a typical reaction of mine to many of Ha's responses - to laugh spontaneously, while not actually agreeing with the sentiment. For this reason alone, I hope Ha sticks around here for many, many moons.

I agree with your point W2R, that there are financially independent women, who are not looking to be supported, or to have anything other than modest amounts of money spent on them. As well as that, I think there's a match for almost any type of person. If a fellow is financially independent, but living on a very modest income, surely there are also women out there who are themselves of very modest means, yet independent, and not looking for a guy to pay their way?

I get that the more money you have, the more options you have. However, as your money supply goes down, I don't think that the options go to zero, unless your personal situation is particularly dire. Situations involving cardboard boxes and bridges would represent the point at which things get just a little awkward

I should comment on this. BTW, thanks for the compliment!

I am not talking about being supported, in reality how many women are likely to find someone who wants to support them anyway? But a well accepted finding in sociology is that women not infrequently like to marry up. That is one thing that the Cinderella story is about. And if we can take marriage preferences for dating preferences, it might indicate that many women might prefer being swiped right by a high status man than one of lower status. Of course, this cannot always be true, but it is likely the way to bet absent other strong information.

More power to all the rich, self supporting women in this board! My own girlfriend also doesn't need any one's support, and she definitely doesn't need mine. If she wanted to she could dump me and find someone much better off and better looking too.. Still, I am within her acceptable limits, and it is my guess from a lifetime of keeping my eyes open, that maybe many women have perhaps unarticulated acceptable limits, which will be bounded on the low end and perhaps totally open above.

Suzanne Venker: My message for women -- 'Marrying down' is nothing to celebrate | Fox News

Ha

 

[Bigdawg]

I'm one of the millennials this article is talking about. Early 20s, working in IT, bought a house, no debt other than my mortgage, saving a significant percentage of my income, reading early retirement blogs and forum posts everyday.

I actually really enjoy my job, I just don't want to need a job. I want the freedom, flexibility, and security that FIRE allows. I'm a simple man with simple interests (videogames and motorcycles), so I don't really need or want much. I don't feel like I'm giving anything up, because I already have everything I really want, and I grew up with much less.

I recognize I'm extremely privileged to be in this position, so I'm just trying to make the most of it. I grew up poor (public housing, food stamps, etc), so that's probably a big factor why I chose pursue FIRE. I also just really like efficiency and optimization, which is probably why I went into tech in the first place

Qwahzi,

Welcome. Looking forward to some new young blood on this forum.

 

[Amethyst]

A financially independent woman can be expected to seek a financially independent man. Although I suppose there must be some sugar mamas out there.

There are no financially independent women any more, of the type who could care less about the size of his nestegg and both willing and able to pay their own way?

I guess ER Forum members are better off financially than most because I just don't see that reflected in the posts from single retired women here.

 

[Milton]

I'd certainly sacrifice my early retirement to provide for my kids. FIRE is a luxury item to me. Kids aren't. To me kids are pretty much what it's all about.

Here is your forum!

I look back on my career and wish I'd interacted more with the people who I didn't necessarily click with but were present and friendly. Once retired, you interact with people that you have common interests with which is fun, but you can learn so much from interacting with people with different view points.

I agree, except that you don't need paid employment to bring you into contact with people of different backgrounds, ages, races, and perspectives. Volunteering and travel can both provide those opportunities.

 

[explanade]

The shakers had no children and are no longer around. They weren't a sustainable culture.

I'd certainly sacrifice my early retirement to provide for my kids. FIRE is a luxury item to me. Kids aren't. To me kids are pretty much what it's all about.

If you differ, that's fine.

If the kids are lovable and you don't mind the job.

What if they're little monsters or you are fed up with your job but you have to keep working to finance living expenses for a larger family, including paying for their toys, like cell phones?

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

I don't want to stereotype anyone, but my own experience with the nonprofit world - which, while less than yours, is still reasonably extensive - suggests that poor-quality work (by both paid employees and volunteers) is not uncommon. Of course the for-profit world is also not immune from that problem, but it does tend to have substantially more accountability.

I think that lack of accountability mechanisms might be more related to enterprise size rather than economic orientation (profit vs. nonprofit). I have worked for middle-to-large size nonprofits and accountability was critical -- especially when financial resources are more limited. You cannot afford to have poor quality labor. My experience has been that typical accountability mechanisms are in place in both types.

-BB

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

It is not her problem to provide her father a retirement. He chose to have her, therefore it was his job and obligation to raise her to adulthood. He signed up for that. Just as if she has a child, it is her obligation to do the same. She is very smart in that she doesnt want to end up like how he has ended up, and is making choices to to avoid that.

I could not disagree more. It's what makes families different from other kinds of social entities. In any case, I believe that she indicated in the article that his predicament was partly due to the vagaries of the economy during his work life.

-BB

 

[Bigdawg]

I could not disagree more. It's what makes families different from other kinds of social entities. In any case, I believe that she indicated in the article that his predicament was partly due to the vagaries of the economy during his work life.

-BB

Agree to disagree. I am with carnivalday.

 

[Maenad]

Dungeons and Dragons?

Exactly. We're old-school geeks.

 

[Milton]

Agree to disagree. I am with carnivalday.

+1