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05-06-2023, 05:41 PM
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#21
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34
This is the problem I have with requiring the use of battery powered equipment. It sounds loverly, but isn't practical. I have lots of battery powered outdoor tools, but I'm only doing one yard a week. For a crew doing many yards a day, battery powered gear isn't even close to prime time. The energy density of a gallon of gasoline far exceeds any battery in production.
For commercial use, I think you'd lose your shirt.
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I can do my lawn 3 times before recharging.
Am I saying he could do 3 of anyone’s lawn? No, of course not.
I do believe this will be viable, if not already, very soon. A lot will depend on the yard sizes, equipment setup (can you recharge from the vehicle and how long to recharge). Yard sizes (or number of yards).
How much are you spending on gas currently? How much will charging cost?
In my case, charging equipment would cost me $0.015/kWh. Fuel runs about $3.50/gallon. Then you need to figure out how many kWh it takes to mow as much as a gallon of gas.
If you are including chainsaw work in your lawn service, then the capabilities of electric chainsaws should be a high concern. They do have less power now, but that is changing. If you are looking at trim work, battery power saws will probably work fine. If you are chopping up trees, or cutting them down, perhaps not.
Here is one such company in South Carolina.
https://quietlawn.com/services/lawn-mowing/
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05-06-2023, 06:44 PM
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#22
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,327
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The quiet lawn marketing is more attractive to me than the green lawn pitch. I am amazed how many homeowners on my block pay to have their 1/2 acre lots cut. The pros are using noisy, dusty, overpowered zero turn machines. One crew cuts most of the lawns on our block. We hear them all day all around us, down the block and the next block over. It would be lovely if they were using quiet electric mowers.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
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05-07-2023, 11:20 AM
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#23
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronc879
Anyone who would be "ticked off" by having someone use cleaner, quieter equipment isn't worth having as a customer.
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I don't think anyone is against cleaner, quieter equipment (at least I hope not!) - it's the questionable marketing (virtue-signalling?) that is objectionable/offensive.
-ERD50
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05-07-2023, 12:57 PM
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#24
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,706
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There’s an assumption here by some that the lawn care service offered by the OP will be “green” in name only. If the service does offer some positive conservation that distinguishes itself from competing services it may be a worthwhile venture.
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05-07-2023, 01:24 PM
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#25
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 5,762
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No.
I am however, looking to avoid certain pesticides.
Edit - quiet is a positive, but I do not know that we would pay extra for it. (DH and DS take care of the yard.)
__________________
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.
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05-07-2023, 01:48 PM
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#26
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upstate
Posts: 2,950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathras
I can do my lawn 3 times before recharging.
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What size is your yard. I have both a gas mower and electric (battery powered). When I use the battery powered mower I need to change batteries at least three times to do my yard. I have a bunch of batteries, so not a super big deal but in no universe could I use such a system to do 5-10 yards of my size a day. My lot is a little over an acre, about 1/3 wooded.
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05-07-2023, 04:35 PM
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#27
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,887
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I've thought that maybe compressed air might be solution for landscapers? Now, compressed air isn't so great for passenger cars/trucks, the efficiency isn't great - compressing the air heats it up, and after sitting a long while, it cools down, you lose all that energy. But for short runs it might make sense. A piston air engine would be very reliable, and refilled quickly.
The truck that tows the mowers and trimmers could have an air compressor on it, and keep a smallish tank refilled as the mowers are out working. There'd need to be some kind of connection to the engine for the compressor, you figure the mowers are tens of HP, the compressor would need to keep up with that to refill in the time they can mow. So some kind of drive that's good for 20-30 HP or so? Though I guess it would be refilling the tank on the drive over, and while they load/unload equipment, so the average HP could be lower (but also need to make up for eff% loss, so maybe a wash?).
-ERD50
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05-07-2023, 05:48 PM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 10,351
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WADR, none of this nutsy-boltsy stuff matters until @oldmedic determines whether there is a large enough market within his served area and what the market will pay. The market will tell him what it expects to see in a "zero-emission" scenario and whether such a claim will justify higher prices that he will probably need to get.
At some point he may have an engineering problem, but right now his problem is a marketing one.
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
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05-07-2023, 09:35 PM
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#29
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copyright1997reloaded
What size is your yard. I have both a gas mower and electric (battery powered). When I use the battery powered mower I need to change batteries at least three times to do my yard. I have a bunch of batteries, so not a super big deal but in no universe could I use such a system to do 5-10 yards of my size a day. My lot is a little over an acre, about 1/3 wooded.
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Just over 1/4 acre, which is why I mentioned the importance of variables, such aa yard size.
Obviously, if the OP’s target area is 1/2 acre lots, his battery needs will be less (per yard) than if they are 1 or 2 acre lots.
Newer equipment can likely cover a lot more ground per battery. Yours sound like they last about long enough to cover my yard once.
This brings up a great point of selecting the brand of equipment carefully.
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05-08-2023, 06:48 AM
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#30
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: the prairies
Posts: 5,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
To be blunt (hang in there, there's some positive follow up...), "Zero Emission" lawn care service is BS, it's just magic marketing words with zero meaning. And in terms of opportunity cost (diverting from meaningful action), it may be a net negative.
Demonstrated by "putting solar panels on the truck to help push the idea.". If one is serious about being 'green', a truck is one of the last places you'd put a solar panel (OK, maybe better than trying to build them into roads). A solar panel should be placed where it will be in the sun all day, at the best angle to capture the most energy possible. Putting it on a truck just wastes that potential - you might not even ever recover the energy used to make the thing, so it could be a net negative (though opportunity cost is very real as well). The weight and air drag of that panel will lower the MPG or "MPGe" of the vehicle, wasting more energy that could be used by the equipment. It's a stupid idea.
OK, the positive - If by "zero emissions" you mean battery powered (which is NOT zero emission, it just moves it to the power plant), well, there is a good case for it. Those small engines used in lawn equipment put out a lot more pollution than a modern car (esp hybrid). Cars can afford cat converters, fuel injection, computer control, variable vale timing, etc. Those technologies do not scale down to a small engine. So I do believe (that unlike EVs), replacing these small engines with batteries is a good move for the environment, because the small engines are so bad. Even a fossil fuel plant, coupled with losses to the battery, will be cleaner than that lawn equipment.
But labeling it "zero emissions" is BS, and I wouldn't trust any business that tried to pawn that scam off on me, and that had solar panels on their truck as some sort of "virtue signalling".
That said, most people haven't looked into it at that level, and fall for the virtue signalling hook-line-and-sinker, so as a business move, it could work. I'd prefer the business be honest about what they are doing, as there still is an advantage - why be manipulative about it?
-ERD50
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+1
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05-08-2023, 06:55 AM
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#31
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: the prairies
Posts: 5,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronc879
Anyone who would be "ticked off" by having someone use cleaner, quieter equipment isn't worth having as a customer.
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Unless you know how and where the batteries are made and how they are charged (some electricity is created by coal) then you don't know if it's cleaner, or even if harmful extraction techniques for the raw materials or if child labour is involved.
I use battery tools because they are quieter and more convenient, but I'm under no illusion that they're emission free.
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05-08-2023, 09:08 AM
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#32
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,503
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Thanks for everyone's reply. I will admit it is more of a gimmick than being world saving. But its like the guy selling toothbrushes at the airport. Who doesn't wish they jumped on the Tesla bandwagon in 2010? With some states outlawing ICE for lawn care, seems possibly like a good idea. We are in a rural area, so not much close would fall into this, but several cities withing 25 miles that are growing in leaps and bounds.
__________________
Went from EMS to PDN
Earn Money Sleeping/ Paid Doing Nothing
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05-12-2023, 04:07 PM
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#33
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Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Downers Grove
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old medic
With the save the world ideology going around, would you be more inclined to hire a company that was dedicated to this approach? Following a discussion with a local Co-operative extension agent this idea started growing. Looking at equipment possibilities, even thought about putting solar panels on the truck to help push the idea.
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If I don't have to listen to another gas-powered, unmuffled mower or blower, I would definitely. All my lawn equipment is battery powered just for the convenience and quietness. I could care less about the so-called positive impact on the climate.
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05-12-2023, 06:27 PM
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#34
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old medic
Thanks for everyone's reply. I will admit it is more of a gimmick than being world saving….
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This may bee the bigger issue for you.
“Saving the world” or “zero emission” claims will typically turn me off the company. I’d think they were greenwashing.
My reason for getting my own equipment was the quiet, convenience, and the pollution from the trucks hauling around the equipment as much as the pollution from the equipment itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old medic
Who doesn't wish they jumped on the Tesla bandwagon in 2010? …
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I don’t (as I did ).
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