5 reasons not to retire abroad

[dtbach]

I'm thinking extended vacations make a lot more sense than moving permanently abroad. Spent a lot of time living in other locals in 22 years in the Navy. Had some great experiences but was always glad to get back to the states.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

You did misinterpret.

2,999 people turning in their citizenships is not a large number. It's something around 1 in 100,000. The murder rate in Chicago alone is 18 times that (2012). Rates of traffic fatalities on Memorial Day weekend dwarf it. ETC.

We have much bigger fish to fry than correcting issues that cause folks to renounce citizenship, IMHO.

You seemed to be posting the link to show that something must be wrong here since so many people are renouncing their citizenships. So many? Nah.......

I posted the link in response to the OPs link 5 reasons not to retire abroad to provide another perspective.

Perhaps this would have been a more appropriate counterpoint -

What's driving Americans to retire abroad?

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...ericans-to-retire-abroad-money-or-lack-of-it/

"As many as 3.3 million American baby boomers are planning to retire abroad, according to figures from Travel Market Report, the industry publication. Three years ago, the paid subscription base of International Living, a magazine for retirees who live overseas or plan to, was 39,000; today, it’s 80,000."

 

[Derslickmeister]

I'm thinking extended vacations make a lot more sense than moving permanently abroad. Spent a lot of time living in other locals in 22 years in the Navy. Had some great experiences but was always glad to get back to the states.

Ditto. When returning from traveling abroad (Europe or Asia) for w**k, I have not found a more satisfying feeling than when the customs agent at DFW looks at my passport and says "welcome home"

 

[haha]

It would be interesting to know how many people chose to retire outside of their home country and for what reasons. That would be an interesting thread/poll and maybe it has been done before. Unfortunately I'm on my phone right now, so searching is difficult.

I tend to think the overall number isn't high and mostly done for financial reasons (I can retire sooner), but I could be wrong.

Earlier someone mentioned the British retirement colonies in Spain. That one would seem to be easy to understand, given English weather.

We estadounidenses can go to Florida, or Southern California and still be in the US.

I think if I lived in some of those very difficult climates in the Eastern US I would be considering leaving too. Thankfully, that is not the case. Though admittedly Seattle is not Shangri-La, it beats Chicago or Des Moines.

Ha

 

[Aus_E_Expat]

After 27 years living as an expat, I am hoping from 2015 to scale back from work which will involve spending (hopefully) 49% of my time in Australia.
(I don't want to get over 50% and become an Australian tax resident while earning income overseas).
I am hoping that plan will give me the best of both worlds.

In another 15 years (when I am 70) I will want to live in Australia as I may need access to the free universal health care - but until that time, I do not see any advantage in permanently relocating.

Things may change along the way.

I agree about the whining expats - but they tend to be the short term expats who do a single 3 year contract and spend the whole time complaining how things don't work. Things don't work in Australia and when I ring up to complain I spend 45 minutes on hold waiting to get through to a customer service officer (who is probably sitting in a call centre in India or the Philippines.)

 

[explanade]

I'm thinking extended vacations make a lot more sense than moving permanently abroad. Spent a lot of time living in other locals in 22 years in the Navy. Had some great experiences but was always glad to get back to the states.

That's what I'm considering. Schengen allows 90 days without a visa.

Some EU nations may issue residency visas to people who can demonstrate they have retirement resources.

But you wouldn't have access to their health care system and you might be subject to fees and taxes, especially if you buy property.

 

[tulak]

Earlier someone mentioned the British retirement colonies in Spain. That one would seem to be easy to understand, given English weather.

We estadounidenses can go to Florida, or Southern California and still be in the US.

I think if I lived in some of those very difficult climates in the Eastern US I would be considering leaving too. Thankfully, that is not the case. Though admittedly Seattle is not Shangri-La, it beats Chicago or Des Moines.

Ha

I agree. I went back to the Midwest for a few days this summer and it was hot. And the family told me about last winter. I'll take Seattle over that any day. The only problem with Seattle is COL and gray winters, even though the latter doesn't seem as bad lately.

Personally, I can see us traveling around for extended periods of time, but as we get older we'll gravitate to where the kids - and hopefully grand kids - are living. Since we're still working, that's the bar we have to meet before we pull the plug. If it wasn't, then we could easily pull the plug and move south of the border.

 

[tulak]

That's what I'm considering. Schengen allows 90 days without a visa.



Some EU nations may issue residency visas to people who can demonstrate they have retirement resources.



But you wouldn't have access to their health care system and you might be subject to fees and taxes, especially if you buy property.

We're also planning on extended vacations, 3-6 months at a time, maybe more or less. Need to wait until the kids leave the house, but we could easily spend a few months in a place or until it becomes uninteresting and move on. I suspect this will eventually get old and we'll then settle down, probably close - but not too close - to where our kids live.

 

[Lancelot]

How well do most of us understand US street talk? If you are like me, you get surprises every day. So just ask yourself how well will you ever understand Thai street talk?


Only enough to be dangerous

Seriously I can get by in Thai, but if the locals want to "lose" me, they can. Just as I can with US slang or complex vocabulary. If the locals suspect you understand Thai, they simply switch to Isan/Lao, Mon or one of the many mountain dialects.

Thailand is like peeling an onion, there is always another layer to be removed and you never get to the core. Unless a Westerner came to Thailand at a very early age and was fully immersed in its languages and customs, he will always be at some what of a disadvantage.

The longer I'm here the less I understand the place...

 

[BTravlin]

The author of the article linked by the OP is a real estate salesman. I think he's really just complaining about losing out on all of those commissions.

 

[2B]

Wow. So few giving up citizenship compared to the millions clamoring to get in. Something must be OK about living here for at least a few of us.

The people giving up their citizen ship fall into two categories. A small number are the mega-rich that buy citizenship in a tax friendly country. They drop their citizenship primarily to save money.

The second group is more numerous. Incomes in this group can vary widely but it includes those with duel citizenship or those married to non-US citizens that don't intend to return to the US. Here the hassles of the "reforms" force either a lot of extra paperwork or dropping of US citizenship. In some cases people have to drop the US citizenship to keep their non-US banking accounts. The US taxing of all income and not just US income is also part of the problem.

Once again, the law of unintended consequences takes over or maybe the people making the law/regulation didn't care what happened.

 

[HFWR]

I am not adventurous enough in my old age to move to another country. I'm an introvert as it is, and wouldn't want to give up the small circle of friends I have, or the familiarity of where I live. Occasional travel will serve the purpose of adventure and culture, but I'm sticking close to "home".

 

[athena53]

The people giving up their citizen ship fall into two categories. A small number are the mega-rich that buy citizenship in a tax friendly country. They drop their citizenship primarily to save money.

Yeah, I love it when the "tax the rich" advocates think that the uber-wealthy will just sit and pay the extra taxes. They have options the rest of us don't have.

Earlier someone mentioned the British retirement colonies in Spain. That one would seem to be easy to understand, given English weather.

A few years ago I read a sad tale in the London Times real estate section about a retirement colony in Spain that had been declared to be against zoning regulations. Unfortunately, many UK residents had paid for homes built there and they were nearing completion. They were left with nothing. Buying property anywhere has its perils (including the US, of course), but I just can't get comfortable with buying property in another country other than Canada. I was going to mention Switzerland (out of my reach, of course) but they have some pretty onerous taxes on property owners.

 

[NW-Bound]

... A few years ago I read a sad tale in the London Times real estate section about a retirement colony in Spain that had been declared to be against zoning regulations. Unfortunately, many UK residents had paid for homes built there and they were nearing completion. They were left with nothing...

I read a similar story, except that the land a home was built on turned out to have no clear title and was on public land. The Brit buyers were out a couple hundred thousand Euros.

Many Britons buy their retirement home in Spain, and I can see why. It's relatively close to home, has nice weather, the price is reasonable, and the cost of living is not bad at all compared to elsewhere in the EU.

 

[robnplunder]

What little research I did on retiring abroad resulted in canning the idea rather quickly. At the end of the day, it came down to most of the reasons cited in the article. Now, if I live in weather challenging places like North Dakota, I'd be more inclined to look elsewhere for RE. But I live in BA and can afford to retire in the same place. If I am suddenly left with only $200k and became single, I will reconsider living abroad in places where $2000/month goes a long way.

When the thread was first posted, I thought it'd go about 20 posts before being shut down. Kudos for posters here exercising moderation. Let's close the thread before it gets bad now that I had my say .... .


Pura Vida.

 

[explanade]

If you've lived in a metropolitan area, you can certainly move to lower-cost areas within the lower 48.

But depending on your interests, you may find places overseas which are more interesting, putting aside what difference there may be in COL.

I don't think people retire to Central America or Asia purely for cost reasons. There are other appealing aspects to those locations for them.

 

[Meadbh]

Way back when I was initially doing background research for ER I got a subscription to International Living for one year. Based on my knowledge of several countries, including the one I grew up in, I realized that the information was skewed, missing important details and presented with rose tinted glasses. Emigrating as an older adult is fraught with many pitfalls and is best suited to those who are already well travelled and will not be fazed by cultural differences. Tax considerations are another issue. For US citizens, there is, of course, FATCA. For Canadians, there is the "deemed disposition" rule, where all investments are deemed to have been disposed of on leaving the country, usually resulting in a huge tax bill and seriously denting the portfolio. Financially, socially and emotionally, I believe that if you are going to emigrate, it's preferable to do it earlier in life when you have a more open mind and less baggage.

 

[tulak]

I don't think people retire to Central America or Asia purely for cost reasons. There are other appealing aspects to those locations for them.

I'd be curious to hear some of these stories if anyone is willing to share.

I could easily stay extended periods of time in Asia, but I think I'd be hard pressed to make it permanent. It'd be interesting to hear from others that have made this choice and their reasons.

 

[AllDone]

I wanted to live/retire abroad for just about my entire life. My husband wanted to retire to San Diego, which is more or less my boring old home town, for most of his life. Oh well, it could be worse ... I could still be w*rking.

 

[Meadbh]

I wanted to live/retire abroad for just about my entire life. My husband wanted to retire to San Diego, which is more or less my boring old home town, for most of his life. Oh well, it could be worse ... I could still be w*rking.

Definitely a first world problem!

 

[MichaelB]

Life is very predictable in the US and most other developed societies. I found living in Latin America to be more spontaneous and uncertain, and with a much greater element of live the present vs plan the future. Many travelers find this frustrating, and on occasion I did as well, but I do miss it.

 

[2B]

I wanted to live/retire abroad for just about my entire life. My husband wanted to retire to San Diego, which is more or less my boring old home town, for most of his life. Oh well, it could be worse ... I could still be w*rking.

DW and I have the mirror image of your situation. I'm working on getting her to go to somewhere abroad for a month (or more) and be sort of local. We'd at least get a more thorough view of the area and culture. I'd get a travel fix and she'd get to "go home."

 

[NW-Bound]

Life is very predictable in the US and most other developed societies...

Ah, perhaps you have hit the nail, or one of them, on the head.

I think that now that I am older, I no longer welcome or can handle the big surprises in life. I can find enough pleasures in a serendipitous find of a quaint town, a lovely stream by the side of the road where I stop my RV for lunch, a nice restaurant found via Yelp or Urbanspoon. Occasionally, some of that, I stumble across in my foreign travel, and it is enough. I know I do not need the hassle of finding a good carpenter or plumber or calling the police in a foreign place. These latter chores are hard enough as is, in the US.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

I wanted to live/retire abroad for just about my entire life. My husband wanted to retire to San Diego, which is more or less my boring old home town, for most of his life. Oh well, it could be worse ... I could still be w*rking.

What about some extended travel? We live in north coastal San Diego and while we love it here (I grew up here too), we also do love to get away from time to time and experience the rest of the world. Currently planning a three month out of country stay to see how it goes, will try to be "living" there rather than being "tourists". Except for the air fare we figure we can keep our expenses to no more than if we stay here (we will see).

Doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. And after a few extended travel experiences like this, one might find they really do want the excitement of becoming an expat, or that home is not such a bad place after all.

 

[kcowan]

Life is very predictable in the US and most other developed societies. I found living in Latin America to be more spontaneous and uncertain, and with a much greater element of live the present vs plan the future. Many travelers find this frustrating, and on occasion I did as well, but I do miss it.

One of the language issues is that manana means not today when talking about a commitment from a vendor/supplier! So people continually get frustrated when things don't come/get done in the morrow.